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Nikkor 80-400mm, VR the cause of blury shots

(31 posts) (13 voices)
  • Started 2 years ago by CaryTheLabelGuy
  • Latest reply from msmoto
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  1. CaryTheLabelGuy

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    I picked up a AF Nikkor 80-400mm 4.5-5.6 last week and have noticed a very strange annomoly. It seems that any shutter speed over 500th/sec with VR on, I'm getting blury shots. If I turn VR off, the shots are perfectly sharp, even at 400mm. I searched the interwebs and found no data that supports this issue.

    Furthermore, I noticed that after a shot is fired, with VR on, I can see the VR element move abruptly in the viewfinder, which is showing up as blur in the shot. At slower shutter speeds, VR does seem to help with camera shake which does allow sharper images, but only slower than 1/500th sec.

    Has anybody experienced a VR malfunction and does this indicate VR is actually malfunctioning? VR is working great until the moment the shutter is released.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  2. NSXType-R

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    I don't think you need VR for shutter speeds over 1/500th.

    http://bythom.com/nikon-vr.htm

    My question about VR is about the 105 macro. There is no active vs. normal VR switch, it's just one switch. So what type of VR is that?

    By the way, that's my only VR lens and I have little experience with that.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  3. CaryTheLabelGuy

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    NSXType-R said:
    I don't think you need VR for shutter speeds over 1/500th.

    http://bythom.com/nikon-vr.htm

    My question about VR is about the 105 macro. There is no active vs. normal VR switch, it's just one switch. So what type of VR is that?

    By the way, that's my only VR lens and I have little experience with that.

    I generally agree, but on my DX D7K, 400mm is just north of 600mm and it's very useful to have VR to steady the shot before the shot is taken at that focal length.

    My 80-400 has two VR modes. I bought this lens used, so I think I know what the two modes do. First is for VR only during the shutter release, the second mode is full-time VR.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  4. adamz

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    CaryTheLabelGuy - I had this lens in the past and never had such a problem (apart from times when I was using it on tripod), so I would suggest You to send it to Nikon for repair.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  5. noxin

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    I have one lens with 2 VR modes. one is for point at and click. the other is for panning or moving while shooting. not sure if your lens is the same.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  6. CaryTheLabelGuy

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    Well, after reading the article on Thom's site, I see that my observations are spot-on with the 1/500th sec rule. Anything fast than this, VR will remain OFF. Good to see there is nothing wrong with this awesome lens.

    Now, if I could get a definitive answer on the two VR modes the 80-400mm has. Is it 1 for point and shoot and 2 for panning?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  7. SkintBrit

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    Presuming the VR on your lens is the same as the system on the VR equipt lenses I own, level 1 VR helps against "human" movement like panning & hand holding wobble, level 2 is designed to help cancel out "mechanical" motion, such as taking a shot from the back of a vehicle whilst on safari for instance. If you have the instruction booklet that came with your lens new, it explains the two modes in greater detail. Basically I think the first mode deals with horizontal motion, while the second deals with both (or primarily vertical motion). I think that's what my manual says.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  8. kanuck

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    Yes I agree with Adamz this doesn't sound right because VR should not cause this to occur. I have never used the 80-400mm but with the 70-200mm VR it never happened and shouldn't. Do you shoot on tripod? You are not suposed to use VR for landscapes when shooting with VR as I'm sure you already know. Do you have a Nikon repair shop near where you live?

    Adamz I thought this was one of your favourite lenses? Did you get rid of it? I remember seeing some wonderful jet fighters shots at an airshow from you and different wildlife as well. You also got into a discussion regarding when the 80-400mm refresh will take place. I believe the 80-400mm is still the most significant Nikkor out now due for a refresh.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  9. NSXType-R

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    kanuck said:
    Yes I agree with Adamz this doesn't sound right because VR should not cause this to occur. I have never used the 80-400mm but with the 70-200mm VR it never happened and shouldn't. Do you shoot on tripod? You are not suposed to use VR for landscapes when shooting with VR as I'm sure you already know. Do you have a Nikon repair shop near where you live?

    Adamz I thought this was one of your favourite lenses? Did you get rid of it? I remember seeing some wonderful jet fighters shots at an airshow from you and different wildlife as well. You also got into a discussion regarding when the 80-400mm refresh will take place. I believe the 80-400mm is still the most significant Nikkor out now due for a refresh.

    Either that or the 85mm 1.8 and the 10.5mm fisheye.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  10. TaoTeJared

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    VR is designed for each lens, for it's intended use. VR is not the same from lens to lens but is similar within it's group - Tele, macro, standard, etc. Example, the 105vr Nikon states to turn VR off when using a tripod. The 400mm VR is designed to utilize VR on a Tripod.

    Your manual will describe the Active vs Normal well. Typically Normal is for 99% of shooting. Active is generally just for panning from side to side.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  11. tcole1983

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    I shoot all my VR lenses with VR always on and I haven't ever noticed any blurring from it even at fast shutter speeds.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  12. CaryTheLabelGuy

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    The main reason I'm not sure what each VR mode does, is because I bought this lens used at an unbelievable price. It didn't come with a box or manual, unfortunately. This is where the confusion sets in, because there isnt a lot of info on what each mode is, for this lens, on the net. This was one of the first lenses to ever get VR, so the tech is fairly old compared to the newer VR models.

    Just to clarify; In mode 1, VR does not have a visual effect in the viewfinder at all, but only works during the shutter release. In mode 2, VR is on at all times, while you have the shutter button depressed halfway and obviously during the shot.

    According to Thom Hogan, if VR is used at shutter speeds faster than 1/500th sec, VR can cause blurry shots from frequencies being slightly off. Sometimes it doesn't blur the shot, but sometimes it does. If I turn VR off at these shutter speeds, I get a vastly better keeper ratio. What he stated on his sight is exactly what I am seeing and the conclusion I came up with, before I even read this article. Maybe it effects the older VR and not the newer versions.

    The 80-400mm 4.5-5.6 is a amazing lens, as long as you know its limitations and stay within them. It's not my 80-200mm 2.8(or 70-200 2.8 VRII), but when I need that extra super tele range, it's there and can deliver super sharp images with great contrast and very little chromatic abberation, as long as you're shooting in the daytime with plenty of light. The D7K's high ISO performance does help make this lens a little more useful then it otherwise would be.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  13. TaoTeJared

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    Always keep in mind VR takes a sec or so to kick in. The mode is not a switch for when the VR engages but what the VR compensates for. You just see the effects in the viewfinder. Mode 1 should start to compensate in the view finder with the release button half depressed.

    This is from the manual Nikon's site:

    Setting the vibration reduction mode switch
    Mode 1
    Vibration is reduced at the instant the shutter is released and also while
    the shutter release button is lightly pressed. Because vibration is reduced
    in the viewfinder, auto/manual focusing and exact framing of the subject
    are easier.
    Mode 2
    Vibration is reduced only at the instant the shutter is released. In this
    mode, vibration of the image in the viewfinder is not reduced while the
    shutter release button is pressed lightly.
    Vibration is not reduced.

    •In Mode 1 and Mode 2, wait at least one second before fully depressing the shutter
    release button after lightly pressing the shutter button. In Mode 1, it’s recommended to
    release the shutter after the image in the viewfinder has stopped vibrating.
    •The vibration reduction mechanism reduces camera shake. However, if you move
    the camera quickly, vibration in the direction of that movement may not be affected.
    For example, if you pan the camera horizontally, only vibration in the vertical
    direction is reduced, making smooth pans much easier.
    •Characteristic of the vibration reduction mechanism, the image in the viewfinder
    may blur after releasing the shutter.
    •When the lens is mounted on a tripod, set the vibration reduction mode switch
    to OFF. Set the vibration reduction mode switch to ON, when using a monopod or if
    the lens is mounted on a tripod without the head being locked in place.
    •This mode may be less effective when pictures are taken from a moving vehicle.
    •The vibration reduction mode does not work when the AF start (AF-ON) button is
    turned on with cameras so equipped.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  14. CaryTheLabelGuy

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    Thanks for the clarification on this particular lens, TaoTeJared!

    Posted 2 years ago #
  15. msmoto

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    Relighting this thread....In some threads the 80-400mm f/4.5-5.6 VR Nikkor has been given some "bad press" So, I thought today I would shoot some "pragmatic" in-the-field comparison shots with the 400mm f/2.8. Shutter speed was 1/1000th and aperture f/11 for both shooting the D4 in Manual mode. So, for those interested, here are the shots, you be the judge. To avoid influencing opinions, the small photo is shown with its 2000px link, so you can jump right to the link and then after guessing which is which lens, look at the Exif data.

    Grand Am Rolex

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/fantinesfotos/7415833014/sizes/o/in/photostream/

    Grand Am Rolex

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/fantinesfotos/7415834402/sizes/o/in/photostream/

    Grand Am Rolex

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/fantinesfotos/7415832360/sizes/o/in/photostream/

    Grand Am Rolex

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/fantinesfotos/7415834776/sizes/o/in/photostream/

    Take a look and see how well the "cheap" 80-400mm f/4.5-5.6 VR holds up against the benchmark 400mm VRII. I found it interesting and please excuse the post processing variations.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  16. SquamishPhoto

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    Comparing 400mm performance at f11 doesn't really accomplish as much as you would hope it would. There is a reason that the 400mm 2.8 is so expensive and its that little "f2.8" on the end. We could do all the same tests with 50mm or 85mm lenses at f11 and likely see almost no difference whatsoever between any of the shots. Set them to their respective widest apertures and the extra cost starts to justify itself.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  17. adamz

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    thanks for sharing Tommie, indeed the differences are small, which only confirms my findings about this lens; if only they could put af-s on it, it will be a perfect travel companion

    Posted 11 months ago #
  18. TaoTeJared

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    Other than some processing variation as you pointed out, I can't see any real difference between the two.

    I think the comparison is good way to show two things; 1) Proper settings to capture the subject & 2) Those that say the 80-400 is soft at 400mm are probably pushing it beyond it's limits. If you work within the limits of the tools (body and lenses), then the tools will perform brilliantly.

    I would add having a D4 and being able to shoot super clean 800iso images helps extend those limits for sure. That is one hell of a camera!

    Posted 11 months ago #
  19. adamz

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    @tao - if You look closer ther's a slight difference in bokeh on this shots. 400/2.8 is more smooth while 80-400vr is more irregular, and that-s all:)

    Posted 11 months ago #
  20. msmoto

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    Well, it was an interesting experiment... and I do see a difference in the 400mm f/2.8, very subtle details the zoom just does not capture. But, the difference in cost...

    The real big faster here is that the 400mm f/2.8 can accept the teleconverters and makes a sweet 800mm on FX. The 80-400....well that is the end of the story. Just thought I would put up some fun stuff as long as I had both along. Maybe I should look at the 70-200mm f/2.8 VRII with TC-20E III and compare to the 400mm f/2.8.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  21. TaoTeJared

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    adamz said:
    @tao - if You look closer ther's a slight difference in bokeh on this shots. 400/2.8 is more smooth while 80-400vr is more irregular, and that-s all:)

    Yeah I always noticed that but the question was always about sharpness. I can see a bit of a difference - not sure how much processing accounts for it. I'll leave MSmoto's observation to determine that.

    The bokeh on my TC 1.7 on my 70-200 vrI gets really funky and can be distracting at times. Might show up in a comparison if you use that MSmoto. Just a thought.

    Always trade-offs with everything.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  22. adamz

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    Tommie - please do a comparison with N70-200+TC2.0III, I'll be eager to see the differences; pity that You don't have N200-400 as I'll be eager to see the differences with that one too :)

    @Tao - indeed there is some difference in sharpness but it's IMHO not what You would expect for 8 grant difference

    Posted 11 months ago #
  23. msmoto

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    OK, today I should have an opportunity to try the TC-20E III w/ the 70-200mm f/2.8 VRII Nikkor. And if really lucky, will find the same cars to catch. It is interesting to try this stuff. Last night I was out with the 400 + TC-20E III and looking at the International Space Station. LOTS TO LEARN...got some interesting little blurs...

    Posted 11 months ago #
  24. framer

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    Just my late 2 cents,

    I've seen this problem w/my 70-200 AFs vr using faster than 500th/sec and having vr active. Its rare but I've seen soft or blurred images and shut the vr off and gotten perfect images. It seems to happen more with close focus shots than over 100' shots.

    This is a 1st generation vr lens.

    framer

    Posted 11 months ago #
  25. tcole1983

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    I don't believe VR seems to have any negative impact that I can tell...maybe old versions? But I never experienced on my 18-200 VRI. I shoot all my VR lenses with it on always and I have never seen any impact from it. I have even left it on at night with long shutter speeds and I still haven't noticed it. Maybe all my pics are blurry and I just don't notice LOL ;)

    Posted 11 months ago #

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