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Monitor Calibration w/ Lightroom

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Started 2 years ago by mikeo21
Latest reply from sevencrossing
Related Topics:
1. What is the best Monitor Calibration software used by professionals ?
2. Updated Lightroom 3 and I can't open file for D600

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mikeo21

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Hey guys,

So back in the US after a 7 month stint in Japan. My university forced me to return early from my year long study abroad near Kobe, Japan. It was a great time up until the earthquake. I still have hundreds of pictures to be processed in my new favorite tool Lightroom.

I have recently hooked up to a few external monitors and I was blown away but the color difference. I thought my monitor was pretty accurate on my dell laptop but I was totally wrong. The saturation of almost all my pictures was way higher than I thought. The photos look nothing like what I have on my screen.

Well.. I want to fix this! I know ultimately I will be getting a more accurate monitor from the likes of apple or lenovo, but I will likely continue working with a laptop for a long time. And I wont be upgrading anytime soon.

I was looking at spider calibration systems. Opinions?

Can anyone advise me on what is a good strategy of calibrating? And once I know how far off my monitor is.. does anyone know whats the best way to apply it in lightroom? I have read you can plug in a "color offset" of sorts and it will shift all the settings on all pictures.

I think this issue is very important in my photography and I want to solve it before I put a lot more time in editing. I am thinking that as long as all of my pictures look good on my monitor.. its only a question of a consistent offset being applied.

Please help!

Thanks,
Mike

Posted 2 years ago #
VelocityStop

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I kind of have the same issue and question. I was using an older Dell laptop with Lightroom and just started using a 1-2yr old Dell desktop computer with a 3-4 yr old ViewSonic LCD monitor. Everything in the photos looks overly saturated and like the blacks are turned way up on the ViewSonic monitor, but when I look at the same photo on my laptop, it will look lighter and under saturated. Two other Dell laptops look the same as my laptop and another desktop with a brand new HP 22" LCD widescreen looks very close to the laptops. So, I'm guessing that it's actually the ViewSonic monitor that I'm using now that is the issue since 3 out of 4 computers are really close in appearance. I did go into the settings on the ViewSonic and switch the color to sRGB (I don't remember what it was originally set on) and that seemed to help a little, but it still looks different from the others. Anyone know how to tell what is correct? Should we post photos and get someone with a high-end calibrated monitor to say whether the saturation looks correct? (I'm sure that will end up being rather subjective)

Posted 2 years ago #
rbid

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I'm not a guru on calibrating monitors. but there are a lot of factors that affect:
- Ambient light: If you move your laptop from place to place with different light conditions, the photo displayed on your monitor may be different from place to place.
- Age of the monitor also affects.

Therefore, when you calibrate your monitor, you should do it on the location that you will work, with the same light conditions you use, and do it periodically.

A friend of mine got an expensive "spyder" that does the job, so I borrow his "spyder" from time to time. There are few products that do this.. and if you do a lot of post=processing, this product is a must! (Software + hardware products)

Google for "Spyder Monitor Calibration".

There are also companies that will do the calibration for you, that is, a guy will come to your home with the device and run the calibration using some hardware/software for a symbolic fee.. (Here in Israel, they also use the "Spyder" tool)

Read here: http://nikonrumors.com/forum/topic.php?id=426

Posted 2 years ago #
sevencrossing

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A cheap and cheefull way of checking is to order a calibration image print from a proccesing house. you simply compare the print with a copy of the image on their web site
( in Eupope look for the Colour calibration page, in photobox. They will send you a free print )

Posted 2 years ago #
zhinsara

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rbid is right. The calibration is given for a specific combination of ambient light and so on, so calibrate for the place that you will be working most. Also, as the backlight of the LCD monitors ages, the color cast by the backlight will change over time, necessitating a recalibration every so often.

I typically borrow a friends Spyder 3, it works great. The low end Spyder 3 does not allow calibration of more than 1 monitor so some trickery is required.

Just btw, if you're printing, you have to calibrate to accommodate the printer too.

Posted 2 years ago #
bjrichus

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Ahhh yes.

I have a Dell Latitude Laptop and a 24" large screen LCD screens also from Dell. The laptop is pretty close to being acceptable but the 24" while its easier and has a higher resolution gives just visibly washed out results. I need to work on it :)

When I used CRT monitors, the depth of saturation and gradation was obviously much higher than with LCD's - 110% agree with the recommendations for the Spyder and REMEMBER your printer also needs to be in the equation.

Posted 2 years ago #
mtkmmt

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Well, the standard solution is to get Eizo color edge monitor that is hardware
calibrated and hook that to your laptop. Eizo or some other prepress monitor will set you back around 1500-4000 dollars but they can show you 95% of the Adobe rgb whereas Macbookpro gives something around 40%!

Posted 2 years ago #
ProImages

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Like others have said editing should be done in the same ambient lighting that the profile was created in. During calibration it's best to close window blinds and adjust dimmers to where they will be when you edit. With a notebook sit in the same location each time and adjust the tilt of the screen as close as possible to match the conditions when the profile was created. You should create a new profile about once a month or so.

I've owned four calibration devices.
Years ago, I started with a Huey, it wasn't very accurate, I gave it away.

Device #2
Spyder2, it worked well. The only problem was the profiles were not always consistent. Sometimes I had to use it two or three times to get a correct profile.

Device #3
XRite Eye One Display2, it worked very well. The profiles were consistent and it measures the ambient light. I would highly recommend it.

Device #4
XRite ColorMunki, profiles both the monitor and printer. Accurate color on both of my Apple Cinema displays and printer, Epson 3800. The printer profiles only need to be created once for each paper used. In Lightroom or Photoshop just choose the ICC profile for that paper.

As someone else mentioned it's important to have a standard to compare to. In the U.S., Mpix.com sells a calibration kit for $3. It's an image on cd and the same image on an 8x10 print. After the monitor is profiled, open the image on the display and compare it to the print. For printer profiles simply compare prints.

Posted 2 years ago #
rbid

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@ProImages: Thanks for sharing your experience. I guess It is time for me to get a calibration device as required. Today I needed to work on a photo (post-processing one), and I found out that my monitors do not show the same colors :(

The idea of getting the Mpix calibration kit is nice! Thanks.

--- Ricky Marek (Happy Passover/חג פסח שמח וכשר)

Posted 2 years ago #
Mike Gunter

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Hi all,

Kudos to Rbid and Proimagaes!

Thanks guys!

My best,

Mike

Posted 2 years ago #
TaoTeJared

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I use Spyder series of calibrates. Xrite and Enzo are probably the best, but for the money the Spyder series does the same for 1/3 the price but takes longer to perform. Just one of those trade-offs.

ProImages described working with it well (having to perform the calibration multiple times) but this is not due to a bad system but it actually takes the ambient room color temp and as bulbs and monitors heat up, the color temp changes so it suggests you re-calibrate. Depending on your monitor, you may need to do this once a month, week, or day. High end monitors from HP, NEC and a few others (22" = $600-$800) stay much more true to the colors than the Best Buy Samsung I use, but then again that is just the trade-offs. I calibrate once a week, which takes about 20min.

I would love to get a full systems for scanner and printer calibration as well but that currently is on my "Once I win the lottery" list along with a 600mm.

Posted 2 years ago #
warprints

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My 2 cents ...
Using color calibration on a laptop monitor is not going to help you a whole lot if your goal is to print photos that look like what you see on your monitor. Calibration will not set the brightness/contrast to a level that can not be achieved by TN screens, and cannot make the screen produce a color gamut that they can not produce. You really need to use a CRt or an IPS flat panel to get close to accurate color and brightness/contrast rendition. As Mtkmmt notes, Ezio monitors sell for big bucks. However, some IPS monitors are now going for much less. Dell makes a 24" IPS flat panel that has gotten very good reviews. I have not tried one yet (will be purchasing one, tho) and color and brightness/constrast accuracy seem to be very good.

Posted 2 years ago #
TaoTeJared

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Calibrating any monitor is not a lost hope and is well worth it. I can calibrate most laptops to no worse than my Samsung monitor.

I do not want to turn this thread into a monitor vs monitor debate (new thread should be made for that) but most name brand, little pricier monitors can achieve very good results.

The OP is a student and is probably not looking for a $1,500+ perfect solution. With calibration, one can get at least 90% there and usually 99%.

Posted 2 years ago #
adamz

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@warprints - I have the dell 2408wfp and it really works w/o any problems. but calibrating only monitor is just a first step. in order to get what You see on print You need:
- calibrate Your printer, and when editing use the color profile from Your printer for profiling
- get the ICC (color profile) from Your lab and also use onscreen proofing
in Apple Aperture online proofing is very easy, just two clicks - should be the same in Lightroom.
also, if You share Your photos online, it's wise to save Your pictures with the standard sRGB profile, of course after onscreen proofing with sRGB profile - that way most users will see what You mean for them to see.

Posted 2 years ago #
warprints

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Tao, I do agree that calibrating any monitor is better than not calibrating. I was really jumping to conclusions, I guess, when I anticipated that OP might think his laptop could give the results that an IPS monitor can attain. However, I might have to open a new thread to contest your suggestion that you can obtain 99% (of what?) with a TN monitor.

Adamz, yeah, I just stopped short of going into all of that, as my point was that without at least an IPS monitor, OP might not get what he's expecting out of calibration.

Posted 2 years ago #
adamz

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war - I still think that even when You don't have an IPS screen it's worth to calibrate

Posted 2 years ago #
warprints

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adamz said:
war - I still think that even when You don't have an IPS screen it's worth to calibrate

warprints said:
Tao, I do agree that calibrating any monitor is better than not calibrating.

Uhhhh, yeah. Adamz, did you post before you saw my reply to Tao?

Posted 2 years ago #
ProImages

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To be fair, when I was using the Spyder, it was a Spyder2. I've heard that the Spyder3 in a big improvement.

Posted 2 years ago #
TaoTeJared

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mikeo21 said:
Can anyone advise me on what is a good strategy of calibrating? And once I know how far off my monitor is.. does anyone know whats the best way to apply it in lightroom? I have read you can plug in a "color offset" of sorts and it will shift all the settings on all pictures.

Calibration is applied in your computer's profile and not just in a program. This is also true with adding a second monitor. What can really creates problems is when you are not viewing your Laptop monitor at 90 degrees which can shift colors drastically. There are cheap tools that can help with that as well.

warprints must want to declare a Monitor War - Start up a second thread. You must state what you use now though :)

Posted 2 years ago #
Ade Barkah

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Hmm, I thought I had replied to the thread yesterday about the basics of calibration, profiling, color management and viewing angle for those who are new to the subject, but I guess it didn't go through or was deleted by the moderator. :(

Posted 2 years ago #
mikeo21

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hey guys,

thanks for the replies.. few things:

-I wish I could buy a monitor right now, but it doesnt make sense because I could move again (potentially across/out of the country). If you guys have opinions on high end laptop screens (mac pro, lenovo etc) I am interested in those. I am a student, graduating in a year.

-On the calibration front, when I researched it the spyder came up (as I mentioned in my post). Seems worth the money. Yes, realize my screen can't just be calibrated up to look like an eizo display.

However I haven't got any comments on how to manage this in lightroom. This is my main concern.. Is there a way to globally adjust my photos in lightroom? Should I just stop editing photos until I get a new monitor? I used to figure that IF all photos look good on the same setup, then they could be all proportionally adapted to a new one. Now I am afraid that I will calibrate the monitor and have to spend a lot of time readjusting all of the photos individually. That sounds horrible!

Can someone please advise me on that? Its my main concern at the moment. So many pictures I want to play with, but if its a waste than I shouldn't bother.

thanks,

Mike

Posted 2 years ago #
Ade Barkah

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Hi Mike,

- The screen on your Dell laptop is likely as good as most Apple or Lenovo laptops. With very few exceptions they all use the same type of LCD panel (TN). Just remember to always tilt the LCD screen to be perfectly perpendicular to your view, since TN panels have a very narrow angle of vertical view. If you move your head too far up or down, the colors and contrast will shift.

- You must calibrate your LCD regularly. Buy / borrow / share a hardware calibrator. Any of these will do, in rough order of preference: ColorMunki (rather expensive), Spyder3 (mid-price), Huey Pro (less expensive).

- Calibration does NOT conform your LCD into any standard color space. E.g., after calibration your LCD will NOT be sRGB or AdobeRGB compliant. This is a common misconception.

- What calibration does is to set your monitor into its own, repeatable neutral state, i.e., at a particular brightness, broad contrast, and neutral colors. Even two very well calibrated monitors might still look different from each other, although they're both "neutral".

- The calibration process will create an "ICC profile" of your monitor, describing the characteristics of your monitor (its own "color space"). It is this profile which allows the accurate translation of colors from standard color spaces to your monitor's color space.

- Therefore, you MUST use "color managed" applications -- those which can apply the ICC profile -- to view colors accurately. Lightroom, Aperture and Photoshop are examples of color managed applications. Windows Photo Viewer, Internet Explorer, and Firefox are NOT color managed and will NOT display colors accurately.

Hope that helps,

-Ade

Posted 2 years ago #
rbid

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@Ade Barkah: You just nailed the calibration topic as required.

Now, It is clear that the calibration will generate an ICC profile that tools that are ICC-profile aware will use them... but what for the other ones like web browsers you use for looking at photos that your friends share?

Question: is there a way to calibrate the monitor to be sRGB or/and AdobeRGB complient?

Posted 2 years ago #
TaoTeJared

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mikeo21 said:
However I haven't got any comments on how to manage this in lightroom. This is my main concern.. Is there a way to globally adjust my photos in lightroom? Should I just stop editing photos until I get a new monitor? I used to figure that IF all photos look good on the same setup, then they could be all proportionally adapted to a new one. Now I am afraid that I will calibrate the monitor and have to spend a lot of time readjusting all of the photos individually. That sounds horrible!

You are sort of looking at it backwards. Think of it this way, it is your monitor that is off, not your photos.

There is no work around in Lightroom or any other editing software built in but you could probably build something. I would strongly suggest against it. The main reason is that it is not the software that is wrong. Secondly, to be able to do so could really mess up a ton of photos and create one huge headache.

How far off is your monitor? Single color shift?

If you look on the web you can find a few site with a manual (by eye) calibration that is better than nothing.

rbid said:
Question: is there a way to calibrate the monitor to be sRGB or/and AdobeRGB complient?

Nope - they have to be built to meet the specs. They can be pushed towards a direction though. Most all are sRGB. Einzo, NEC, High end monitors can achieve the AdobeRGB.

Posted 2 years ago #
Correlli

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There is a nice website where you can compare different ICC profiles as 3D models (like the one of your monitor with the one of your printer). Google for iccview. You can view some standard ones or you can upload your own profiles.

As TaoTeJared said, you cannot calibrate you monitor (printer, camera, scanner etc) to be compliant to any other color space. But the profile will tell the system (and all the applications that get the information from the system) how to convert sRGB values so that a certain color value will look the same on all calibrated viewing devices (with some prerequisites like that your eyes have to be adjusted to the conditions etc). Having a calibrated system does not mean that it will comply to sRGB or AdobeRGB but it will help to correctly interpret the colors.

Posted 2 years ago #