The 1.2 Crop The fantasy and The facts

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The 1.2 Crop The fantasy and The facts

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heartyfisher

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Just wanted to put this topic up for discussion of the 1.2 crop mode.

As you guys may already know I proposed fictional DXF400 and DXF7000 with a native 1.2 crop mode in the gigantic D400 thread, and also in its own thread (which got closed! LOL ). Just thought that the 1.2 crop deserved its own thread as Its not really a D400.

May I ask which cameras currently actually have the 1.2 crop? I only really know that the D800 has it and maybe the D4? Can some one confirm the models that actually have the 1.2 crop mode?

Posted 5 months ago #
msmoto

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Gee, what a great thread...:-).

D4 has it...

I can see the advantage with the D800 in that the file sizes shooting RAW 14 bit, lossless, compressed are as follows:

41.3MB FX

34.4MB 4:5

28.7MB 1.2 Crop Mode

18.6MB DX

And this can certainly be an advantage in reducing file sizes in the computer and if one is pushing the memory card capacity, allows more images on a card.

It is interesting how the size of the DX area in the D800 is less than the current sensors in the less expensive bodies...and was there not some indications the sensor in the new DX Nikons is better than the D800?

Posted 5 months ago #
heartyfisher

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Looks like the D600 doesn't have the 1.2 crop capability.. what an oversight :-(

Would have made it a more excellent upgrade from DX to FX.

Posted 5 months ago #
sevencrossing

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why do want to throw information away ?

Yes the D800 has 1.2 crop but I cannot think of any reason why I might use it

Posted 5 months ago #
TaoTeJared

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sevencrossing said:
why do want to throw information away ?

Yes the D800 has 1.2 crop but I cannot think of any reason why I might use it

I'm with this - I don't get why anyone uses crop on a FF sensor - why constrain your options?, Crop it later.

Posted 5 months ago #
heartyfisher

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Can you guys tell me if the D700. D3s, D3, D3x have the 1.2 crop.. the reviews seem unclear on this point. Thanks

Posted 5 months ago #
PB PM

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The D3, D3x have 4:5 crop and DX, while D700 only have standard DX crop mode. The D3s has 1.2 crop mode.

Posted 5 months ago #
heartyfisher

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I have been reading up on the 1.2 crop and the reasons to use it for teh FX users, at least on the D800, is the higher frame rate and the smaller Raw files. Also for the sports shooters they get to frame the pictures better as they get to see a bit of the context outside the frame and can anticipate better. Some say croping after the fact is annoying.. guess they don't have much time to reprocess..

Posted 5 months ago #
heartyfisher

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PB PM said:
The D3, D3x have 4:5 crop and DX, while D700 only have standard DX crop mode. The D3s has 1.2 crop mode.

So only 3 cameras has the 1.2 crop mode ..
D800, D4 and D3S... not that many ..

Posted 5 months ago #
msmoto

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It would seem to make sense in shooting action shots, the full frame allows more capture area. On the other hand, the cropped to either DX or 1.2 size, will give a nice picture through the viewfinder showing what is outside the frame. And, if shooting at high FPS, the buffer will not fill up as quickly, although this is rarely a problem with the modern paparazzi bodies.

Posted 5 months ago #
TaoTeJared

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heartyfisher said:
I have been reading up on the 1.2 crop and the reasons to use it for teh FX users, at least on the D800, is the higher frame rate and the smaller Raw files. Also for the sports shooters they get to frame the pictures better as they get to see a bit of the context outside the frame and can anticipate better. Some say croping after the fact is annoying.. guess they don't have much time to reprocess..

For the D800, You don't get much if any increase of frame rate. File sizes vary so greatly (due to color and dynamic range) that there is not that much different either.

Canon had it, they dropped it. If users thought it was worth it, they would have kept it.

I just don't see any advantage when you already have 1.5 crop for any of the things you have mentioned.

Sorry but this 1.2 crop just seems like a dog chasing it's tail to me.

Posted 5 months ago #
Ade Barkah

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TaoTeJared said:
For the D800, You don't get much if any increase of frame rate. File sizes vary so greatly (due to color and dynamic range) that there is not that much different either.

On the D800, with the 1.2x crop mode you gain 1 fps in frame rate (5 vs 4 fps) with a significant reduction in average file sizes (25-30%).

Posted 5 months ago #
OnTheRopes

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On the D800, with the 1.2x crop mode you gain 1 fps in frame rate (5 vs 4 fps) with a significant reduction in average file sizes (25-30%).

As long as you use the battery grip and EN-EL18(D4) or AA batteries, doesn't work with the D800 battery.
1.2 gives 5fps and 1.5 gives 6fps, though you soon run out of buffer

Posted 5 months ago #
sevencrossing

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The D600 claims 5 fps, which may be reason for the lack of a crop option

Posted 5 months ago #
msmoto

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This could be such a simple process in the software, simply an issue of programming, that Nikon offers it as just another option. If one looks at the file sizes I posted previously, it would make sense if one were in a remote location, had limited memory with them and was shooting hundreds of images..

At 14 bit lossless, compressed, per 8GB memory on card....
FX ............ 103 images
1.2 Crop............148 images
DX..............236images

Posted 5 months ago #
Gabandi

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Interesting, I can see why 1.2x crop would be useful to some (but not all) photographers. There are so many Canon shooters who aren't very happy about Canon dropping the 1D line and some of the rumors even suggest the 7D replacement could be a 1.2 crop. Could it be that Nikon is waiting on Canon to make their move first before they release a 1.2 crop camera? It would make sense and also explain the addition of the 1.2 mode in Nikon.

Posted 5 months ago #
Gabandi

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@OnTheRopes, that is true for getting 6 FPS in DX mode but you don't need the grip to get 5 FPS in 1.2 mode. This is also true for 5 FPS in DX mode as well.

Copy/paste from page 426 of the D800 manual:

With EN-EL15 batteries
Image area: FX/5 : 4
CL: 1–4 fps
CH: 4 fps
Image area: DX/1.2×
CL: 1–5 fps
CH: 5 fps

Other power sources
Image area: FX/5 : 4
CL: 1–4 fps
CH: 4 fps
Image area: 1.2×
CL: 1–5 fps
CH: 5 fps
Image area: DX
CL: 1–5 fps
CH: 6 fps

Posted 5 months ago #
heartyfisher

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Gabandi said:
Interesting, I can see why 1.2x crop would be useful to some (but not all) photographers. There are so many Canon shooters who aren't very happy about Canon dropping the 1D line and some of the rumors even suggest the 7D replacement could be a 1.2 crop. Could it be that Nikon is waiting on Canon to make their move first before they release a 1.2 crop camera? It would make sense and also explain the addition of the 1.2 mode in Nikon.

I may be wrong but I cant see how the 7D replacement could be a 1.3 crop sensor camera. the 1D series cameras couldn't take the lenses from their crop 1.6 crop sensors cameras. On the other hand, Nikon wont have that problem as all DX lenses work on FX and DX cameras.(only the vignetting issue) There are no physical constraints like the canon 1D 1.3 crop cameras had.

PS Thanks for that copy/paste from the manual. re FPS

Posted 4 months ago #
kyoshinikon

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msmoto said:
This could be such a simple process in the software, simply an issue of programming, that Nikon offers it as just another option. If one looks at the file sizes I posted previously, it would make sense if one were in a remote location, had limited memory with them and was shooting hundreds of images..

At 14 bit lossless, compressed, per 8GB memory on card....
FX ............ 103 images
1.2 Crop............148 images
DX..............236images

That to me is the smartest option...

If this were a perfect world the D2xs'es revival would be a "D4h" with a 1.2 crop and a 1.5 crop mode.. priced at $3500. Not going to happen however.

Posted 4 months ago #
golf007sd

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TaoTeJared said:
Canon had it, they dropped it. If users thought it was worth it, they would have kept it.

I just don't see any advantage when you already have 1.5 crop for any of the things you have mentioned.

Sorry but this 1.2 crop just seems like a dog chasing it's tail to me.

+1

Posted 4 months ago #
heartyfisher

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golf007sd said:
+1

From the other thread.. The Canon 1.3 camera is quite different from our proposed Nikon 1.2 crop sensor camera.. Additionally our DXF400 will have most of the advantages the 1D had. Some I can think of are: Higher FPS, Smaller files, Faster Flash Sync speed.

heartyfisher said:
I have had a closer look at the 1.3 1D cameras and reading up on them. The following are the weaknesses I see.
1) Will not work with APS-C lenses - Our theoretical 1.2 crop camera in 4:5 mode will work with All DX lenses. So in native 1.2 mode it will work with most DX lenses and in DX mode and in 4:5 mode All DX lenses !
2) Didnt have a good ultra wide.. We have the Nikkor 12-24 that will work with it!
in fact all current DX ultrawides will work with it.
3) It cost a zillion ! We are talking between $1400 to $1800.

So our 1.2 is a totally different beast. None of the 1D disadvantages apply. Don't think of it as a cut down FX. In effect its a suped up DX camera that take a bit more advantage of the FX lenses that DX users already have.

If you were a D7000 user with a couple or 3 Dx lenses and one FX (70-200?) and wanting to upgrade .. wouldn't this be a great little camera? maybe even call it a D400 ! ;-)

Posted 4 months ago #
SquamishPhoto

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The faster flash sync is something I never thought of and something that will make a huge difference with studio strobes that have maximum sync speeds around 1/200-250.

Posted 4 months ago #
NSXType-R

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I think Nikon is fine with the DX and FX right now, adding an in betweener is not going to help things, especially when they're so slow to offer a high level DX replacement.

Posted 4 months ago #

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The 1.2 Crop The fantasy and The facts

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