Like I said, we'll have to agree to disagree.
Picture Controls Not Affecting Images
(47 posts) (9 voices)-
Posted 3 years ago #
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I just shoot JPEG and play with the settings until they look good on my LCD. My gripe w/ RAW has always been that its not a WYSIWYG process. Will I still make adjustments in post? Sure. But for my money, the whole advantage of RAW is that you can make adjustments to WB & Exposure in post production without degrading the image. That's great if you are shooting with film, but why bother if you can already see on-camera if you messed something up. I suppose for Pro's it makes sense to use RAW (weddings, fashion shoots & the like where time is the most important thing). For anything that has enough patience to let you re-shoot a blown shot, JPEG is the way to go. Just my 2 cents.
Posted 3 years ago # -
By that example... film guys should have all adopted polaroid...
-- Dave
Posted 3 years ago # -
Picture control is just an attribute to a NEF image; it does not change RAW data itself. Try monochrome picture control and open it in PS or anything other then Nikon software it will be color as shot.
In Capture NX you could change this attribute to any other Picture Control setting and it will work as it was done in the camera.
As for Active D-lighting if you really like this effect it is always better to apply it in postproduction in Capture or View NX.
This is all true for NEF of course, JPEG is another story. Don’t believe KR, JPEG is stupid thing to do, it is unforgivable format and will never allow you to correct any mistakes you made during shooting.
I personally use Capture NX for all my post–processing as a starting point, including Picture Control sometimes, D-lighting I do not use at all but it is better to use it in post–processing, and then I continue the work in PS if needed.
If you have over or under exposure problems it is always better to correct them using exposure compensation IMHO.Posted 3 years ago # -
Fair enough Acqua Cow, but there are more than a few film guys that carry around digital cameras to work out the shutter speed \ aperture they want to shoot with and then plug the settings into their film camera.... so yeah. Let them carry around Polaroids if they find it helpful.
I just feel like raw is overkill unless you want to do a lot of post processing... and who among us has more fun processing a picture than taking it?
I'm probably just grumpy cause I had to spend about half a day last weekend doing housecleaning on my iMac where I'm starting to run out of space on my 500GB hard drive. Thanks in no small part to my early experiments with RAW.
Posted 3 years ago # -
"Picture control is just an attribute to a NEF image; it does not change RAW data itself. Try monochrome picture control and open it in PS or anything other then Nikon software it will be color as shot.
In Capture NX you could change this attribute to any other Picture Control setting and it will work as it was done in the camera.
As for Active D-lighting if you really like this effect it is always better to apply it in postproduction in Capture or View NX.
This is all true for NEF of course, JPEG is another story. Don’t believe KR, JPEG is stupid thing to do, it is unforgivable format and will never allow you to correct any mistakes you made during shooting.
I personally use Capture NX for all my post–processing as a starting point, including Picture Control sometimes, D-lighting I do not use at all but it is better to use it in post–processing, and then I continue the work in PS if needed.
If you have over or under exposure problems it is always better to correct them using exposure compensation IMHO."mb, I agree with you for the most part. Once you go RAW, it's hard to go back to jpeg. I listened to KR for a long time which is why I've only been shooting RAW since February. Every change made to a jpg is destructive. This isn't the case with RAW as RAW is essentially a "digital negative".
Interesting view point on D Lighting you made as well. I know that I love the D Lighting in Capture NX. Perhaps I will try to use it only here rather than in camera. It might be a good thing. Mb, why do you only use Capture for s starting point? What else do you do in other software that Capture doesn't do?
Posted 3 years ago # -
"I just feel like raw is overkill unless you want to do a lot of post processing... and who among us has more fun processing a picture than taking it?"
Why do you keep saying this? Please tell me what I'mnot doing when I edit RAW files. I've always had the feeling that I am missing something. The only thing that's different in RAW for me are the few extra setting I can control. OK, I will give away a few of my secrets here and walk you through most of what I do when editing RAW. Tell me what I'm missing:
This is the pic as taken (only re sized and of course converted to jpg for this sample). Obviously here, the picture controls are psychotic and need adjusting.
So here, I reset the picture controls. This is the only RAW only setting I had to make to this file.Posted 3 years ago # -
Next I did some D Lighting (again didn't fine tune it, just left it at the default of better quality which was fine for this example).
At this point, I used the unsharp mask to sharpen the image.Posted 3 years ago # -
Next, I applied noise reduction to the skin. In Capture NX it gives the skin that smooth texture that I like. At this point, this picture is basically done.
If I feel like it or think it would help, I will add color control points and saturate a few select areas. Notice her hair on her shoulders, shirt color and the color os the blue behind her. I also applied these to her hair higher up on her head, especially on her right side. You can simply brighten them to bring out a bit more detail and make it less in the shadows.Total time, about 8 minutes. When I really take my time it may be a little longer.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Willis - once I have a problem with space on my box I just upgrade it. Also for all my files I store them not on the system disk but on another one. This gives me the ability to move the pictures from one box to another and work on them in different places. As for minimazing the size on the disk I will also suggest to do the initial selection in camera, as even on the small screens You are able to see which pictures are good and which are i.e. out of focus.
Posted 3 years ago # -
@Gentoo - good example. I use Capture NX as a starting point because I am used to it and it allows me to preview and do some work on the image very quickly, it does not have many more features than other programs but for one it understands Picture Controls. And it seams to me that it gives better color rendering of NEF images. After I am done in Captuer NX I save the image in JPEG using Nikon Adobe RGB profile if I am to continue the work in PS.
Posted 3 years ago # -
I agree with you mb. What else do you do to it in PS?
Posted 3 years ago # -
In PS I mostly do image cleaning from unwonted objects (rubbish of all sorts) and spots (distant birds or similar), and sometimes I correct geometry (convergence or similar). I also find BW conversion easier in PS, especially if using Silver Efex.
Posted 3 years ago # -
mb - if You are on mac, than I will suggest You to use aperture, as the retouch brush works really good
gentoo - as for You pictures, I don't know why but I have a feeling that the skin looks very unnatural, especially around the face, apart from this nice PP skills, really need to try capture NX, as it looks like a really good software
Posted 3 years ago # -
The biggest problem with Gentoo's image is that it has no black levels at all...
None...
There is barely a black pixel in the entire image...
Gentoo: for shooting raw, you certainly aren't taking full advantage of it prior to converting to jpeg...
Posted 3 years ago # -
That image was shot in an art gallery with weird lighting.
aquacow, in what way am I not taking full advantage or raw?
Posted 3 years ago # -
aquacow, in what way am I not taking full advantage or raw?
Raw is great in the way that it contains WAY more image data than jpeg, allowing you to make adjustments and set your highlight and black levels before exporting to jpeg...
By not having any black levels, you are not storing as much image data in your output jpegs as you could.
And you lose a bit of contrast when your blacks all become greys...-- Dave
Posted 3 years ago # -
Adamz - I agree, I need to move my media to an external drive. I'm a little paranoid about doing so for 2 reasons. 1 - Performance. I feel like USB would probably slow me down. Unfortuneately, my Mac doesn't have ESATA which would be the best thing to use. My guess is that firewire 800 would be fast enough, but its hard to find a drive with good reviews that has FW800 compatibility (for that matter external drives with good reviews are hard to come by in general). The other reason is reliability. External drives seem like they are more prone to failure than internal drives. I need to come up with a good backup workflow. Easy to do, but I've not yet done it.
Gentoo - 8 min \ picture seems like it would be prohibitively long for most profesional shooting. For galary type work, you only pick out a few shots and then work on them. For Weddings \ events \ (even portraits depending on your arrangement with the customer) and what have you, there can be anywhere from 50-several hundred shots. At this point RAW really starts slowing you down.
I don't have a problem with RAW per-se, but it seems like lots of people use it as a crutch. Outside of fixing bad exposure, is it really very helpful? Many of the edits you made are destructive by definition (Noise removal, for instance). So RAW vs. JPEG is irrelevant.
In your picture, which I would guess was shot with picture controls set to Vivid +, the skin tones are clearly not right in the first place. Here I'd change my settings and re-shoot. For a single shot, maybe its not worth it, but you wouldn't want to do an entire shoot that way, and then have to fix the whole thing in post.
Posted 3 years ago # -
"In your picture, which I would guess was shot with picture controls set to Vivid +, the skin tones are clearly not right in the first place. Here I'd change my settings and re-shoot. For a single shot, maybe its not worth it, but you wouldn't want to do an entire shoot that way, and then have to fix the whole thing in post."
True, but I didn't review the pics much when I was shooting. I was more into the company I was with ;). When I got home and loaded them to my computer, it was then that I realized what I had done. I'm not sure what I was shooting before that required the vivid mode.
I'm aware of what you're talking about however. In March I was part of a photoshoot for a drum major competition in which over 1000 shots were taken on my D300. This was shot in jpg and I made absolutely certain that all the settings were right as there was no way of post processing a big shoot like that the way I do my bird and smaller people shoots. What's good about that is that most average people will love your work for them regardless because it's head and shoulders above what they or their friends can do with whatever cameras they have.
Posted 3 years ago # -
willis - I'm storing my pictures on a removable 2.5" 7200rpm drive, that I connect to computer through a USB cable, and don't face any speed and reliability problems. If You are paranoid about reliability go for lacie or seagate as they have a good reputation and both have FW800 versions. OTOH I wouldn't recommend Western Digital if You work on Mac, as both the speed and reliability is very questionable. As for external drives generally, I've never had any problems with them during my whole IT life. As for backing up, You just need to have a second drive - and make a direct copy once a time.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Adamz - good to know that USB is fast enough not to slow down your workflow. You definitely pay a premium for the fire wire gear (only about $50, but I'm pretty frugal outside of purchasing photo gear). Thanks for the tip.
Gentoo - Fair enough.. I think we are on the same page. As an aside, that girl in the photo looks just like somebody I went to High School with LOL.
Posted 3 years ago # -
"that girl in the photo looks just like somebody I went to High School with LOL."
Where did you go to high school? What were her initials? This girl's initials are rather unique. She's lived both in the US and in France.
Posted 3 years ago #
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