buying an advanced camera as your first dslr

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buying an advanced camera as your first dslr

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casperwb

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I have noticed that a lot of the problems people are having with he D7000, for e.g autofocusing, using the settings in menus, and live view focusing, can be resolved by correct use of the camera settings.

Also, quite a few of the problems have been caused by not understanding how changing the setting affect the camera.

I have also seen complaints about focusing in live view, which is a feature from point and shoot cameras, and we reserve for use in marco, timed or video photography.

This leads me to think that people are jumping from point and shoot to advance cameras and being overwhemled by features and settings that they do not know how to use properly.

Therefore, the question is : would you advise folks buying their first DSLR to buy a D3100 first, learn , and then move on to a more advanced camera, or, because you can afford it, just buy the D7000, D300, D700 and god forbid a D3s?

Posted 2 years ago #
Gareth

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i went from a point and shoot to a d700. no issues. i did panick when i saw the color banding from florescent lights though, then researched and found out it was the lights not the camera.

i used to shoot my powershots in manual (always have) and had no issues.

I'm OK because I want to learn. i read the manual beginning to end numerous times (great toilet reading) and played until i was confident. i also use it every day and take many many photos (by the time it's a year old probably 100 000).

the trouble comes from people paying more and expecting it to do everything automatically. lol. as us sensible folks know, paying more means you have to do more manually in order to get the advantage we are paying for.

Posted 2 years ago #
monty11

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I agree, if you are willing to learn and do it fast, then you will outgrow the D3100 in a matter of months and wish that you had had someone who had advised you to invest a bit more and get a better camera.

If one is just a casual shooter with no interests in learning more then it is better to get a simpler body and get better glass.

Posted 2 years ago #
NSXType-R

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monty11 said:
I agree, if you are willing to learn and do it fast, then you will outgrow the D3100 in a matter of months and wish that you had had someone who had advised you to invest a bit more and get a better camera.

If one is just a casual shooter with no interests in learning more then it is better to get a simpler body and get better glass.

Yeah, maybe don't go fully pro, but go one above the D3100. D90 or D7000 would do fine. They still have the auto mode if you get extremely frustrated, but if you're willing to come back you can always learn.

I learned the hard way with the D40. I could have gotten a D80 at the time but I didn't. I guess it's okay, the D90 was announced half a year later. I would have been really annoyed when that had happened.

By the way, this is keeping in mind if your budget allows for it.

Posted 2 years ago #
RichJB

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A few years ago some friends of mine asked me to recommend a DSLR as they both had cheap compacts and wanted to improve. They are a retired couple who travel the world and can afford anything they want. I asked them a few questions relating to what they wanted to use the camera for and how much weight they wanted to carry around. I finally suggested D60's for both of them, for the man I suggested getting an 18-200 instead of the kit lens and the woman I thought would be happy with the kit lens mainly because of weight. At no time was the controls of the camera ever brought up, so they went along with my suggestions. Since then the man now has a D90 and also has a Sigma 150-500 because he found he enjoyed wildlife photography. The woman has bough a 105 VR Micro lens and also bought my 18-200 lens off me, she is more into macro mostly flowers. They learnt what they preferred to do with their cameras and then improved on what they had. I have no doubt that in the near future they might upgrade their bodies again. The man fully understands all the settings on his camera and he taught himself one step at a time. The woman still uses the auto settings a lot because for her style of photography they are fine.
I think most people may not use everything on their cameras but when the need arises they will find that the better specified cameras will have the things they need and when the time is right they will use them.

Posted 2 years ago #
sevencrossing

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the D90 and the the D7000 both have a fully auto setting and provided people use this, while they are learning to use the menus, everything should be fine

The problem is, they want to be professional and so use P ( P for professional) and come unstuck. If someone was serious about photography and have a deep pocket, I would recommend they jump right in and get a D700

PS I know a full time profession wedding photographer who uses a D90 permanently set to Auto

Posted 2 years ago #
Drab

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casperwb said:
This leads me to think that people are jumping from point and shoot to advance cameras and being overwhemled by features and settings that they do not know how to use properly.

Therefore, the question is : would you advise folks buying their first DSLR to buy a D3100 first, learn , and then move on to a more advanced camera, or, because you can afford it, just buy the D7000, D300, D700 and god forbid a D3s?

I'd advise them to buy whatever camera is appropriate for them and to read the fine manual. RTFM.

Some people need to get off the pigheaded belief that the science and art of photography are mutually exclusive.

As far as learning a camera there is no advantage to buying a low-end model. In fact I would argue strongly that buying too "idiot proof" of a camera actually gets in the way of learning. (But this again is more a matter of shooter discipline to blame rather than the hardware, a D3100 is a fine manual camera.)

As far as learning how much camera you actually need, there is a great advantage to buying a low-end model.

Posted 2 years ago #
Kanichiro

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Gareth said:
i went from a point and shoot to a d700. no issues. i did panick when i saw the color banding from florescent lights though, then researched and found out it was the lights not the camera.

i used to shoot my powershots in manual (always have) and had no issues.

I'm OK because I want to learn. i read the manual beginning to end numerous times (great toilet reading) and played until i was confident. i also use it every day and take many many photos (by the time it's a year old probably 100 000).

the trouble comes from people paying more and expecting it to do everything automatically. lol. as us sensible folks know, paying more means you have to do more manually in order to get the advantage we are paying for.

I too went from a Point and Shoot to a D700. However, for me the Point and Shoot was most always set for automatic. I had quite a "thrill" when I started using the D700 and it took a lot of work for me to begin using my D700 correctly. I would not recommend this major leap for anyone who cannot get around setting the camera up manually, but I had, and still have, a medical situation that prompted me to make that leap.

My sights are now on getting a 4x5 field camera, and I may well sell my D700, lenses, etc. I seem to be going backwards from the normal direction. If I do sell my Nikon stuff, I'll be moving from high-tech to low-tech.

Posted 2 years ago #
Mike Gunter

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Hi,

I'm with Drab. Read the manual, and if possible take a class. Forums are fine, but it's also fun to get and 'fellowship', workshop, grow a bit.

The best gear to get is to get the gears going in the noodle.

My best,

Mike

Posted 2 years ago #
bjrichus

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casperwb said:
This leads me to think that people are jumping from point and shoot to advance cameras and being overwhemled by features and settings that they do not know how to use properly.

Perhaps the P&S people are expecting "better quality" cameras that work the same way as the P&S they are used to?

I know .. it's really a case of "Don't expect an F1 sports car to handle like a Ford Fiesta."

Isn't what is really needed something like a big red button, call it "auto", that puts the camera into full auto mode and disables every other control except the shutter release?

Make a big point of making a DSLR camera with that feature on it - not as just a setting on a mode dial.

You'd then have a bunch of really satisfied P&S users (with "better" P&S pictures), a happy camera maker (more sales to satisfied customers) and then the really better pictures would come from the more advanced users, who know what to do when the big red auto button is set to off?

;-)

Oh - I know. The 'correct' solution is to educate people how to use a DSLR properly... but it's much less fun...

Posted 2 years ago #
aslightdelay

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I'm with Drab also (and, no surprise, with Mike, who's his usual concisely eloquent self). I was actually on the fence for a bit between the 300 and the 7000. I realized that coming from a P&S (with limited exposure -- pardon the pun -- to SLR's) straight to a higher-end SLR would probably lead to a bit steeper learning curve than I wanted. I have the patience to sit down with the manual (have already bought a book for the 7000 so I can get something of a jump on that stuff) and to learn the settings, but I think it's a good idea starting out to have a full-auto option.

Granted, you don't want to shoot that way all the time, 'cause it defeats the purpose of buying an SLR in the first place. But I think it's useful to someone who's a neophyte to be able to just get the shot at those times when thinking over the settings would mean missing the shot. We don't all have the level of experience yet that allows us to get the settings right without much thought. It's like training wheels in that regard.

All of which is a long-ish way of saying, I probably wouldn't go for a D3, which I think would intimidate the hell out of me, but I also wouldn't go with a 3100 because I think that once I got over the initial hump, I'd be frustrated by its limitations.

Posted 2 years ago #
IndyGeoff

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I would push them towards getting the best glass they can afford, then a more advanced camera. Not that most would listen to this and they would end up with lenses they do not want anymore. I admit it, I have a couple lenses I now know were not the best choices.

Posted 2 years ago #
Mike Gunter

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Hi IndyGeoff,

The original question was sort of a mash up of mixed DSLRs that likely wouldn't be on nearly anyone's list of possibilities.

In reality, anyone buying their first camera doesn't know if they are going to like photography as a hobby or they're going to shoot a few snaps and just get it out for holidays.

It's easy to have grand ideas.

In the end, it might be better to measure the pocketbook and plan what's affordable.

And to aslightdelay, thanks, I think, although that likely should go to Miss Miller. Everything that is meaningfully I learned in second grade.

My best,

Mike

Posted 2 years ago #
aslightdelay

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@Mike: You're welcome. "It's not where you take it from, it's where you take it to that counts."

Posted 2 years ago #
NSXType-R

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aslightdelay said:
I'm with Drab also (and, no surprise, with Mike, who's his usual concisely eloquent self). I was actually on the fence for a bit between the 300 and the 7000. I realized that coming from a P&S (with limited exposure -- pardon the pun -- to SLR's) straight to a higher-end SLR would probably lead to a bit steeper learning curve than I wanted. I have the patience to sit down with the manual (have already bought a book for the 7000 so I can get something of a jump on that stuff) and to learn the settings, but I think it's a good idea starting out to have a full-auto option.

Granted, you don't want to shoot that way all the time, 'cause it defeats the purpose of buying an SLR in the first place. But I think it's useful to someone who's a neophyte to be able to just get the shot at those times when thinking over the settings would mean missing the shot. We don't all have the level of experience yet that allows us to get the settings right without much thought. It's like training wheels in that regard.

All of which is a long-ish way of saying, I probably wouldn't go for a D3, which I think would intimidate the hell out of me, but I also wouldn't go with a 3100 because I think that once I got over the initial hump, I'd be frustrated by its limitations.

You know, I'm not as frustrated with my D40 as much as I thought I would. Yes there's the part of me that just wants to throw it out and get a D7000, but I like extracting every bit out of it.

Maybe part of the reason is that I got new glass, the 105 macro and am still trying to learn it.

And even yesterday I took the D40 out with the 35mm 1.8 while it was still snowing. More water got on it than any other time- I was afraid water would get into the mode dial. I periodically brushed away water and snow flakes and the camera performed like a champ.

It surprises me how well built the D40 is. Yes I won't be too successful shooting sports with it, but I know its limitations and i know it'll be able to fit in small spots, which will be useful for me when I do macros of bugs in the summer.

Posted 2 years ago #
TaoTeJared

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To be honest I push most of my friends into P&S rather than DSLRs mainly due to everyone's suggestions above. Most have little to no experience with cameras and just want to take pictures of their kids and family. When talking to them, (not talking at them-that is key) they really don't want the size, the expense or to take the time to learn the camera at all. Those who do, than complain that their photos don't look like mine and unfortunately their photos turn out very poor. They just think a DSLR is what they need to have.

I find the hardest part I find in helping them is their initial thoughts of a DSLR camera are a little off.
Examples: (how many have heard these?)
-Having a camera that can shoot 1/4000 of a second will make my kid not look blurry when I take a picture of him and his birthday cake in a room only lit by candles.
-setting to ShutterP and setting the shutter speed to the max or 10x higher than is should be.
-The idea of fast glass: It is how fast it auto focuses.
-Setting the camera to shoot at ISO 1600+ all the time but the images look bad.
-Thinking the AFL/AEL on button tracks their kid moving across the screen. (no settings set except the AEL.
And so on...

If someone is truly interested in a DSLR I match their price point with lenses then add the camera unless I can tell this will become a large hobby for them. These days, a 18-55vr (every day), 35mm prime (birthdays) and 70-300vr for their little baseball player with any camera will serve them for the next 5 years. Bodies come and go, lenses do not.

It's all about matching what people need for what they want to do.

Posted 2 years ago #
spraynpray

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I have a D5000 which was my first new camera since I bought an Oly E10. IMHO it is a BRILLIANT starter VDSLR camera with which you can either progress on and use the P,A,S & M modes or if you find it is beyond you, you can stay with the 19 or so scene modes which give great results for people who are happy to stay at that level. Given the right user it will give the same IQ as the D90.

Posted 2 years ago #
LoveTheBerry

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My first DLSR was the D3s. Seriously. I know,......what was I thinking?
Well,...it was a gift from a company I support and they new my interest in photography.

I have been taking weekly classes and have surpassed my expectations. I LOVE THIS proffesion and really wished I developed this interest earlier in life.

I agree with Drab,..read the manual. Without that knowledge and a basic understanding of photography,....any camera would be a useless tool. Read, Read, Read,.....then make foolish post here so we can laugh. I do it all the time,..right Niko?

Posted 2 years ago #
Michael DeRose

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I started not too long ago from a P&S to the D7000. I have to say im rather happy with buying the d7000 over the 3100. A friend of mine went that route and both of us have "outgrown" the 3100. He now wishes he would have went with the d7000. I will also say, there is a learning cliff. Once you figure out how everything works(read the manual and not shooting in auto), everything has become rather fluid.

I think that by the time the replacement to the d700 replacement comes out, i might be ready for that. :p tons to still learn and try.

Posted 2 years ago #
Gareth

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TaoTeJared said:
To be honest I push most of my friends into P&S rather than DSLRs mainly due to everyone's suggestions above. Most have little to no experience with cameras and just want to take pictures of their kids and family. When talking to them, (not talking at them-that is key) they really don't want the size, the expense or to take the time to learn the camera at all. Those who do, than complain that their photos don't look like mine and unfortunately their photos turn out very poor. They just think a DSLR is what they need to have.

I totally agree. The problem is that people see my photos (i have a lot of the very best glass and a d700) and expect super shallow DOF. When I tell them that super shallow DOF comes at the risk of missing focus they brush it off. When I tell them to get a P&S they are not happy because of the massive DOF. P&S's also have the added disadvantage of being hopeless inside and needing a flash all the time, which needs to at least be bounced.

Posted 2 years ago #
Drab

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aslightdelay said:straight to a higher-end SLR would probably lead to a bit steeper learning curve than I wanted.

Not to be pedantic, but far from agreeing with me, that is exactly the opposite of what I was trying to say.

I do not believe a D3 is any harder to learn on than a D3100. Shooting in the scene modes teaches one nothing more than the mechanics and should be discouraged, IMHO, when trying to learn. They may be great for "production" but are a thick layer of abstraction which interfere with the ability to understand anything at all about cameras.

A or S mode is plenty simple to learn on. They both allow you to experiment with only one variable in play - the foundation of structured learning.

Don't understand a feature? Leave it at the factory default until you do. No need to get overwhelmed.

I'll actually repose that in the form of a question:
Is there a single factory default setting on a single Nikon SLR which a noob should be expected to change in order to get going and producing photos good enough to learn from?

I believe the answer is no, but welcome discussion on that.

Posted 2 years ago #
tcole1983

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I went from a P&S to the D5000. For me so far it does everything I need and stuff I still don't know about. I learn new stuff all the time. I think the biggest problem is people always want more. The new body or the new technology. I think if you went from nothing straight to a very expensive pro body you could be overwhelmed easily. It does take some work/learning and I have seen it where people are frustrated with the cameras because they really don't know how to use them. It even took me a little while to get used to the D5000. I still forget to change settings or do something wrong with it and pictures don't turn out every so often. I would buy what you could afford, but if you wanted to invest in something I would spend more on nice lenses then the pro body.

I think most including myself get a dSLR thinking they will get the same results as some national geographic guy with a pro body and $10000 lens. While the cameras will take excellent pictures I still think some are disappointed. I have also seen it with everyone that was waiting for the D7000 and then realized once they got it that it wasn't that much better then the D90 they just sold. Personally bodies are somewhat disposable and can be upgraded when needed. A nice lens will work great on the lowest and best bodies. If a low level body will help you learn and make progression into a pro body easier then it is worth it in my opinion...instead of being frustrated and possibly giving up. Also reading the manual and or about the cameras FTW! People that are asking questions like how do you change a setting in the menu really need lots of help.

Posted 2 years ago #
jonnyapple

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Drab said:
Some people need to get off the pigheaded belief that the science and art of photography are mutually exclusive.

+1
I also agree with your comment that A and S are simple enough modes for anyone that wants to take pictures. I can't figure out why people are so afraid of them but maybe it's because there are numbers involved.

Posted 2 years ago #
pbull221

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Got my first DSLR last year. A D300s. Was I overwhelmed? Yes. Was that feeling filled with dread? No. It was a feeling of excitement about additional variables that will also take a lifetime to master. Have I read the manual cover to cover? No. Do I carry it with me and use it as a reference? All the time. Do I leave everything possible set to auto in the bag? Yes. Do I grab a shot when I see a composition and then go for more control after looking at that wonderful electronic "Polaroid?" Yes. Will I stick with Nikon glass even after I win the Lottery? You bet. With a new diagnosis of cataracts, glaucoma, and diabetic retinopathy am I going to quit saving for that 600mm F/4? No freakin' way man... Do I religiously refrain from just deleting everything I don't like and waiting until it is on the computer monitor so that I can drag the best quality out with NX2 and Photoshop? Virtually all the time.

Posted 2 years ago #
Easy2putt

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I got my first dSLR 3 years ago, D90, glad I did..it was a great introduction. I think there is a great leap from P&S'er to dSLR'ers(?)..passion.

Posted 2 years ago #