I am looking at getting macro lights for my D700 and 105. Which do you think is better? I know the popup flash can control the lights, but does it get in the way? is there a way to use the pop up flash without flashing? anything input you have is great.
R1C1 or R1 kit on D700 w/ 105vr(20 posts) (10 voices)
pop up flash has to be open... thats all
you can switch off the actual flash in a same place where you control the remote one
It really dosn't get in the way, but if you think that it does, just place and tape black construction paper over it.
You can reduce built in flash independently in commander mode so it virtually does not flash at all.
The "communication flashes" from the pop-up flash are at a low light level but under some conditions those can influence your exposure. For this reason both Macro light kits include a pop-up flash shield (SG-3IR) that fits in the flash hotshoe and blocks the visible light spectrum from the pop-up flash to avoid interference with your exposure.
IMO save yourself the money and get the R1 kit, later get yourself a more powerful flash like the SB800 which gives you more flexibility than the SU-800 Commander that is included in the R1C1 kit.
I've never noticed the Pop-Up flashes contribution to the exposure of my remote flash's shots. The only gotcha is that if you are shooting in close, you could get a shadow from your lens blocking the light from the pop-up.
Some photographers like to use the SU 800 simply because it gives them a dedicated CLS screen aqs opposed to having to wade through the settings on their camera. You can also attach it to a TTL cord(hotshoe mount) and use it to trigger lights that are in difficult places (no line of sight). Of course, pocket wizards are a better option at that point.
If you don't mind the extra size, the SB-900 is a better value than the SU-800, but if your only shooting macro, I'd go with the R1C1 for portability, and no contributory flash (note: There is a flash emitted from the R1C1, but its infrared, so you can't see it. Its not a radio based flash though and still need line of sight.
You can completely disable built-in flash on D700 so it does not affect the shot in any way (sync flashes are fired just before the actual shot).
You could also use built-in flash diffuser that slips in the hot shoo if you need one, but I find that useless for macro shots.
I actually use SB-600s for slave add-on flashes and they perform great with built-in flash, but then again rarely for macro, for macro R1 is the only flash you will need unless you are shooting flowers or similar in daylight and need additional background light for example and then you could use SB-R200 from the kit independently.
"Quote mb: You can completely disable built-in flash on D700 so it does not affect the shot in any way (sync flashes are fired just before the actual shot)"
I once believed that to be true too but now know that CLS works in mysterious ways.
This test proved me wrong in my previous believe:
Set the built in flash to Commander mode and disable it (--).
Take a picture facing a mirror ( with or without remote flash )
Check the picture you've just taken.
Now you'll know why Nikon includes the SG-3IR shield with their macro kits :)
I have done your test .. and disabled my pop up flash and it does not fire .. when the actual picture is taken. You will see it flash as it is communicating with the remote flashes via the preflashes, but the photo will not have it as flashing.
The SU-800 has a greater range, and is more durable than the flimsy shield too. Tons more options as well. I got mine with a used kit, wasn't planning on getting it at the time. Glad I've got it now.
>>Quote heartyfisher: .....remote flashes via the preflashes, but the photo will not have it as flashing.
You may not see the communication flash on the picture if you if you shoot the picture above shutter sync speed. Try again with your shutter at below 1/320 s and the built in flash open.
The pre-flashes only communicate power settings and wake up the remote flashes but the commander flash also has to fire a flash sync command once the shutter is fully open.
>>Shadow quoted: The SU-800 has a greater range, and is more durable than the flimsy shield too....
True as that might be I still think getting a SB-600/800/900 flash instead of the SU-800 Commander is a better value since it gives you commander functions in IR, added range and a more powerful flash to boot.
Flash sync is 1/250 standard and 1/320 high speed sync on D700, below means you are using FP.
That way you could have traces of pre-flashes in your image.
SU-800 is the best option for controlling remote flashes and is not too expensive if bought with R1C1 (around 200$ as far as I know) but it is not cheap if you do not need all the features it offers.
The D700 like the D300 and others supports up to 1/320s flash sync (front curtain fully open before rear curtain starts closing) however you can set it to use high speed sync flash (multiple flashes fire) at either above 1/250 or 1/320s when a high speed sync compatible flash unit is connected.
>> mb quoted: That way you could have traces of pre-flashes in your image.
can you give a little more details on how you came to that assumption?
My theory why the sync flash (release flash) isn't seen in commander/flash off mode at above 1/320 (or 1/250s if set so) is that the commander releases the remote flashes just prior the front curtain opening for them to strobe at High speed Sync whereas in normal flash mode it waits for the front curtain to be fully open before releasing the remote flashes thus becoming visible.
Your turn :)
Explain above and below 1/250 and 1/320, is it slower (1/60 for example) or faster (1/4000)?
One more thing, I do not see any reason to use flashes in commander mode faster than 1/60, I do not use flashes in that manner as add-on light for daylight shooting and fill-in is the only reason I know to use flash faster then that.
Above >>> Faster, Below >>> slower
No issue with using 1/60s in commander mode however this means that the built in commander flash will fire a sync flash while the shutter is open and this may cause unwanted light contribution to the shot, that's all ;)
Excuse me for not catching you the first time.
If your image is affected by command sync flashes you could always use hot shoo mountable shield as you and I already seams to mention earlier in this post (though I miscalled it diffuser).
You and I seams to sad many similar things in this post and not catching it, we both know about sync speeds 1/250 and 1/320 and sync speeds faster then that (called FP sync by Nikon), we both agree that R1 is a very good choice, and we both agree that, if need arise, SU-800 offers a great deal of advantages and is worth considering as a valuable add-on.
Why is then that lack of understanding? It is most likely me being non native English speaker.
No problem mb, I'm not a native English speaker either. Nothing wrong with a little discussion :).
Anyways what I didn't like was the statement of "not in any way" of your "You can completely disable built-in flash on D700 so it does not affect the shot in any way" reply and thought it needed a little clarification.
Btw during the conversation here I learned something new and that is that there is no commander flash from the built in flash while the shutter is open in FP High Speed Sync flash mode.
I don't think that Nikon is calling speeds below 1/250 - 1/320 as FP and believe it is actually the opposite. The FP likely stands for Focal Plane and the "Auto FP" in the Flash sync menu is in all likelihood an abbreviation for what they call "FP High Speed Sync" which becomes effective at shutter speeds above (higher, faster then) 1/250 - 1/320s with supporting flashes or built in flash at Commander - Flash off setting.
See page 306 of the D700 manual for reference (English version).
I have the R1 kit with my D300 and wish I had bought the R1C1. There are two benefits to the SU-800 not already covered. The SU-800 allows you to set the ratio of lighting between groups on the Commander unit rather than dialing in + or - in the camera menu. This is both quicker and more accurate compared to a bit of trial and error required using the menu setting. With experience you can probably estimate pretty well, but dialing in a 3:1 ratio of key to fill flashes can be a big help. The second advantage of the SU-800 is it supports 3 groups rather than just two. As mentioned above, the added power of the SU-800 is a benefit in some situations.
@Panamon_Creel - you are right it says "at faster speeds, Auto FP High-Speed Sync"
A quick update on this thread
I bought a SB R1 kit plus an additional SB R200
They work fine with an SB900 as the master
I sometimes use a second SB 900 as a back light
105 macro on a D800Posted 4 years ago #
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