One feature of D800 that would kill Canon, Sony and Panasonic.

Nikon Rumors Forum » Nikon DSLR

One feature of D800 that would kill Canon, Sony and Panasonic.

(25 posts) (15 voices)

Tags:

2350

winguk

new member
Joined: Nov '10
Posts: 3
offline

Nikon, give us a HDMI for uncompressed video output.

Unlike Canon, Sony and Panasonic, you have no professional camcorder division to worry about. Uncompressed raw video output has been around for many years and those companies just reserve it for the so called professional camcorders to keep their prices artificially high.

Your target normal D800 users may not know about this feature and properly will never use it. But all the opinion formers in videography know it so well. They will create a buzz around the camera for you, just like how they did with 5D II.

With a full frame sensor, the quality of the raw video can genuinely compete with a $20K plus camcorder. Imagine the marketing value of this message.

Panasonic’s latest GH2 may have it. But with a larger sensor and your array of excellent lenses, you will win the heart of many indie filmmakers.

Nikon, do it for us please.

Posted 2 years ago #
LessThanThreeLeo

member
Joined: Jul '10
Posts: 35
offline

Is uncompressed video output like shooting raw instead of jpeg or something?

Posted 2 years ago #
kyoshinikon

preferred member
Joined: Jan '10
Posts: 1,200
offline

You need to print this up and send it to the Nikon HQ like... NOW!

Posted 2 years ago #
smarterchild

preferred member
Joined: Jan '10
Posts: 678
offline

Having near to most mega pixels to the 5D markII. 18-22. In my opinion would kill the competition because then people would not switch to canon or sony

Posted 2 years ago #
Drab

preferred member
Joined: Aug '10
Posts: 540
offline

LessThanThreeLeo said:
Is uncompressed video output like shooting raw instead of jpeg or something?

A better, but still flawed, analogy is that it would be like shooting TIFF rather than JPG. Still processed sensor data, not raw, but without lossy compression getting in the way of future works and the inevitable lossy encoding for distribution.

Posted 2 years ago #
rafakoy

junior member
Joined: Nov '10
Posts: 6
offline

You are going to need huge memory cards just to get a few minutes with RAW video.

Posted 2 years ago #
LessThanThreeLeo

member
Joined: Jul '10
Posts: 35
offline

Sounds awesome! Do it, Nikon.

Posted 2 years ago #
Drab

preferred member
Joined: Aug '10
Posts: 540
offline

rafakoy said:
You are going to need huge memory cards just to get a few minutes with RAW video.

Amen.
1920x1080x24x8 (4:2:2 colorspace) = 398,131,200 bits per second, 49,766,400 bytes per second, 50MB per second in storage terms (10^6 vs 2^20) = 20 seconds per GB if uncompressed (and needing amongst the fastest CF cards).

But the OP mentioned HDMI out, not on-board storage, and there are plenty of solutions for this.

Posted 2 years ago #
PB PM

preferred member
Joined: Jan '10
Posts: 2,217
offline

Not only big cards, but fast. You'd need a 600x CF card at the least.

Posted 2 years ago #
Drab

preferred member
Joined: Aug '10
Posts: 540
offline

PB PM said:
Not only big cards, but fast. You'd need a 600x CF card at the least.

FWIW
A 333x is technically fast enough. 1x=150KB/s (same as 1x CD speed). These would be linear writes and the still image buffer could be used to average out any write hiccups.

Posted 2 years ago #
iDunno

senior member
Joined: Mar '10
Posts: 75
offline

doesn't the op mean HDMI out as in tethered video shooting?

Posted 2 years ago #
Drab

preferred member
Joined: Aug '10
Posts: 540
offline

iDunno said:
doesn't the op mean HDMI out as in tethered video shooting?

That's how I read it.

Posted 2 years ago #
Mike Gunter

preferred member
Joined: Sep '10
Posts: 946
offline

Hi,

I think HDMI cabling has some restrictions itself as to what bandwidth it can handle.

All video is 'compressed'; it's the nature of what it is. It's 'how much compression' and 'how compressed' and in which color space that matters. You'd have to have something that 'reads it', too. Just having 'video' without a 'reader'(monitor) is kinda pointless.

My best,

Mike

Posted 2 years ago #
Drab

preferred member
Joined: Aug '10
Posts: 540
offline

Mike Gunter said:
I think HDMI cabling has some restrictions itself as to what bandwidth it can handle.

It does, but that limitation is 4.9Gb/s of which 1920x1080 @ 60 fps and 4:4:4 color is the video capacity at a minimum (HDMI 1.0).

Versions 1.3 and up of the standard support nearly double that bandwidth.

Posted 2 years ago #
winguk

new member
Joined: Nov '10
Posts: 3
offline

The idea is use HDMI video out to connect to an external HD recorder like Nanoflash.

Nanoflash is expensive, costing over US$2700. But the latest development of Ninja Atomos is quite interesting, costing just under US$1000.

Recording uncompressed video is expensive at the moment. The point is once HDMI uncompressed video out has become a standard feature of most mainstream cameras, hopefully more HD recorders would be developed and the prices would go down.

It seems that Panasonic’s GH2 has taken a first step. Let’s see if others would follow. I really hope Nikon would have this feature really soon as I don’t want to switch to Panasonic. I love my Nikon lenses.

Posted 2 years ago #
Drab

preferred member
Joined: Aug '10
Posts: 540
offline

winguk said:
The idea is use HDMI video out to connect to an external HD recorder like Nanoflash.

Yea, I originally had an adorama link to the Nanoflash to "prove my point", but edited it out. Links don't seem to be appreciated here. While I think HDMI dumping is probably not in the price range of typical D7000 buyers today, I rather suspect it will be within the lifespan of the D7000.

Posted 2 years ago #
d70

junior member
Joined: Oct '10
Posts: 6
offline

Honestly, I don't see how the D700 successor would ever "kill" 5DMKII. By that, I mean it would never cause people who take photography seriously to jump from Canon to Nikon just before some better features in body alone. I just wish Nikon would speed things up a bit more. It's been long overdue.

Posted 2 years ago #
winguk

new member
Joined: Nov '10
Posts: 3
offline

D700 successor might not "kill" 5DMK11, definitely not the upcoming Mark 3. But with the feature, it will make a great damage to the professional camcorder market of Canon. Also, it will kill 5DMK11 in terms of the DSLR filmmaking market.

Of course, a photographer won't be interested in the feature, but a cinematographer definitely will. Or for photographer turned video-shooter, or vise versa - there are plenty of people like that out there.

Posted 2 years ago #
Mike Gunter

preferred member
Joined: Sep '10
Posts: 946
offline

Drab said:
It does, but that limitation is 4.9Gb/s of which 1920x1080 @ 60 fps and 4:4:4 color is the video capacity at a minimum (HDMI 1.0).

Versions 1.3 and up of the standard support nearly double that bandwidth.

Thanks Drab! I had no idea that it was that high a throughput. My notion is that it was lower.

My best,

Mike

Posted 2 years ago #
Mike Gunter

preferred member
Joined: Sep '10
Posts: 946
offline

d70 said:
Honestly, I don't see how the D700 successor would ever "kill" 5DMKII. By that, I mean it would never cause people who take photography seriously to jump from Canon to Nikon just before some better features in body alone. I just wish Nikon would speed things up a bit more. It's been long overdue.

Hi,

Canon is firmly entrenched in the filmmakers' world at the moment, as are Nikon lenses.

I'd like to see Nikon bodies, too.

However, there are things happening that make that OBE (overcome by events).

The Panasonic AG AF101 camera and the newly announced professional Sony E-mount cousin of the NXCAM camcorder, both likely to be available for under $3000 (my guess), and have lens mount adapters for just about any lens available will make them attractive for any filmmaker. Neither camera will be an all-in-one box for stills and video (although they will advertise as such and will take either, but come on), but each will address the film market's need for this niche.

Nikon might feel less need to complete in this market.

My best,

Mike

Posted 2 years ago #
Yannovitch

new member
Joined: Mar '11
Posts: 1
offline

You're talking about uncompressed raw video but actually, we should have compressed RAW video, which is what is found on RED or ARRI.
With this codecs, it takes much less place and require much less bandwidth.
2nd, we shouldn't have RAW video on HDMI but instead, have high bandwith port like USB3 or Thunderbolt (Lightpeak) to transfer directly to fast hardrive or SSD.

Moreover, if the information about swapping sensor is right, we could even dream of a PL to Nikon adapter without optic elements, then the real pro who have dozens of PL mount optics will be able to use Nikon.

Posted 2 years ago #
adamz

The Predator
Joined: Mar '09
Posts: 3,461
offline

I support the idea of having Thunderbolt on the next dslr instead of USB and HDMI.
Some of You mentioned card capacity, there's a new CF card by Sandisk - 600x 128GB - should be enough for uncompressed raw, the only drawback is it's price +/- $1500 ... and if You have d3s/d3x You gonna need two of them :) imagine You lost one of this cards during assignment, I would be mad a lot.

Posted 2 years ago #
TaoTeJared

preferred member
Joined: Apr '10
Posts: 2,422
offline

You guys lost me on this one. I don't do any video at all so I would be interested in what use it has.

What does HDMI on the camera add?

Don't you just save video and edit it later? Live view uses? Hook it to a TV? I don't get it.

I don't see an advantage what HDMI or really any cable input would do for me?

I'm ready to learn!

Posted 2 years ago #
Drdobs

senior member
Joined: Feb '11
Posts: 63
offline

If Nikon really wants to work against Canon and attempt to displace them from the camera selling thrown, they'll need to do more than just stick a raw video out port on the side of the camera...

In regards to video, this is a huge market for Canon even though most Nikon owners don't quite 'get' what all the fuss is about. Canon has essentially created a whole new market with their 5dmii and 7d cams...

If Nikon wanted to compete, I think they'd have to develop the next D800 to have two versions.. Say D800p and D800v. The 'v' designation would be more video oriented while the 'p' would be more photo oriented. Perhaps the following

D800v
- same sensor as D700
- 1080p-30fps & 720p/60fps recording capability @ 4:2:2 colorspace recorded in a high bit rate, editable encoding format (something like a cineform encoder, etc).
- hdmi video out
- a body design that lends itself to video oriented accessories such as steadycams, external mic's, etc
- 4.5 tilt/swivel LCD for monitoring, etc
- should still be able to take fantastic images and also, of course, use F-mount lenses

well, I'm kind of rambling here but you get the idea.... build this thing to accomodate all the accessories that a videographer needs but make it also capable of shooting excellent stills.

Jon

Posted 2 years ago #
MRPhotoau

junior member
Joined: Jan '11
Posts: 7
offline

I guess this is all right, video is a big thing now days, not that I want it wasting space in my camera or adding to cost. But, I realise that many do.
So it would need to have at least 1080/60 for video with full AF
An updated AF module
24+MP
100% VF
dual CF slots with lockable cover
ISO starting at 25 so we don't have to shove a ND filter on all the time.
It would also only need very clean ISO up to 6400 but useable ISO to D3s levels.
The option of getting a second or third body with B&W or IR sensors
But above all, more customisable buttons including the use of the rear wheel for EV+- like the rear wheel of the MKII
Lets get serious though, D800 and MKIII are both due around August so it has to be a MKIII killer, not a MKII killer
Oh, yeah. It would also be great to have a thumb button that showed the histogram in the viewfinder before the shutter is pressed.
This whole concept becomes more and more unobtainable the more I think of possible extras
One more, built in radio trigger that is fully programmable in camera with an optional $50 unit that is just a jack/reciever unit to put in our lights, pretty please.
Just one more, built in reciever so I can use my iPhone as a wireless remote, maybe even as a piece that fits to the hotshoe so it has 360d reception.
Blah, blah, blah

Posted 2 years ago #