Nikon D3100/D7000: sensitivity/noise comparisons?

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Nikon D3100/D7000: sensitivity/noise comparisons?

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studio460

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Comparing Nikon D3100/D7000 as V-DSLRs:

Since both the new Nikon D3100 and D7000 use the improved AVCHD H.264 CODEC, it would be interesting to compare the two cameras purely as V-DSLRs, especially when using manual-focus lenses, specifically for filmmaking applications. If not shooting stills, and by using manual-focus lenses exclusively, many of the benefits of the D7000 become non-issues. Here are some notable differences (as well as common video features) between/among the two bodies:

Nikon D7000:

1. Manual control over ISO and shutter speed.
2. Pentaprism.
3. 931,000-pixel, 3" LCD.
4. 20-minute maximum video recording.
5. Flicker-reduction.
6. May turn off CEC function in HDMI set-up menu to permit LiveView shooting when connected to an external HDMI monitor.

Nikon D3100:

1. No manual control over ISO and shutter speed (a major downside to using the D3100 as a filmmaking tool).
2. Pentamirror (not as bright).
3. 230,000-pixel, 3" LCD (a non-issue if using an external HDMI monitor).
4. 10-minute maximum video recording.
5. Flicker-reduction.
6. May turn off CEC function in HDMI set-up menu to permit LiveView shooting when connected to an external HDMI monitor.

Does anyone here have both a D3100 and a D7000 to compare low-light sensitivity and noise levels? They're using different sensors, so I would expect some differences:

D3100 14.2 MP
D7000 16.2 MP

I understand that the D7000 has a higher "rated" maximum ISO than the D3100, but conventional wisdom has it that lower-density sensors are typically capable of improved low-light sensitivity, all else being equal (which it's entirely possible that it's not, in this particular case). If anyone owns both, I sure would appreciate a side-by-side image comparison (stills are fine) at identical light quantities and exposures through various ISO ratings.

Posted 2 years ago #
iglass

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Better yet, I would like to see a comparison across several models. I'm not moving to another manufacturer, I'm interested in seeing improvements between models - something like a grid chart of photos with increasing ISO setting on one axis and currently available camera models on the other - say D3100, D5000, D7000, D90, D300s, D700, D3s, D3x. And so forth.

Posted 2 years ago #
NikoDoby

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You can see a comparison between several different cameras here:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM

They dont have the D7000 up yet but im sure it wont be long before they do. They have the D3100 up already

Posted 2 years ago #
gelu88

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studio460 said:

6. May turn off CEC function in HDMI set-up menu to permit LiveView shooting when connected to an external HDMI monitor.

i asked this question elsewhere without a response, but this seems to be a better venue for it.

Is it possible to output live view through the A/V out, via the RCA plugs? or is this only limited to HDMI?

and is the D7000 different in this respect from the D3100 or even the D3S, D300s or D90?

Thanks for any response

Posted 2 years ago #
TickleMyElmo

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gelu88 said:
i asked this question elsewhere without a response, but this seems to be a better venue for it.

Is it possible to output live view through the A/V out, via the RCA plugs? or is this only limited to HDMI?

and is the D7000 different in this respect from the D3100 or even the D3S, D300s or D90?

Thanks for any response

I just tested it, it IS possible to outout live view through the AV out plugs supplied with the camera. I would assume its possible to do it using HDMI too....Im uploading a pic that'll show what I mean....This is all for the D7000...

Note: I output the live view to my 52" big screen using the AV out. The quality was pretty crappy, as expected....I'm sure it would be much better with an HDMI cable but I don't have one, so this is the best I can do for now..

Posted 2 years ago #
studio460

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NikoDoby said:
You can see a comparison between several different cameras here:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM

They dont have the D7000 up yet but im sure it wont be long before they do. They have the D3100 up already

Thanks, Niko! I compared the D3100 with a D90, and the D90's image at ISO3200 had less apparent noise than the D3100--this is contrary to another report on the D3100 which claimed the opposite (will try to cite the link later--it was an interesting report). It's an excellent "comparometer" web-application, but it's not clear whether each image was taken at the exact same light quantities from camera to camera (unless they posted a more detailed testing methodology somewhere, that I hadn't noticed).

Posted 2 years ago #
gelu88

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TickleMyElmo said:
I just tested it, it IS possible to outout live view through the AV out plugs supplied with the camera. I would assume its possible to do it using HDMI too....Im uploading a pic that'll show what I mean....This is all for the D7000...

Note: I output the live view to my 52" big screen using the AV out. The quality was pretty crappy, as expected....I'm sure it would be much better with an HDMI cable but I don't have one, so this is the best I can do for now..

Wohoo! The reason i'm excited is that i sometimes use a camcorder with skype to have cooler conversations with my family. So the idea of using a $1500 dollar webcam is sweet.

Posted 2 years ago #
studio460

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NikoDoby said:
You can see a comparison between several different cameras here:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM

They dont have the D7000 up yet but im sure it wont be long before they do. They have the D3100 up already

Imaging Resource's D7000 test images are now available for viewing on their "comparometer!"

I should have titled this thread: "Nikon D90/D7000 Noise Comparisons," since it now seems the more relevant comparison. I had started this thread initially to consider if the D3100 was equally well-equipped for video as the D7000 (since I was considering the D3100 instead, just to shoot video). Now, a D90/D7000 comparison allows to see relative improvements.

However, after reviewing IR's comparison images, between the D90 and the D7000, I could find no appreciable difference in their respective ISO/noise performances. And after some review, I've come to about the same conclusions with the D3100/D7000 comparisons.

It still puzzles me why noise tests are so often performed in completely flat light with so little shadow area, with light-colored, beige backgrounds (among the most difficult hues against which to see noise), often with no gradients, and seemingly never with any colored light (where noise really rears its ugly head). I did my "noise viewing" in the small shadow area that the picture frame makes to its left--the right-hand, sleeve/watch area is good, too.

Posted 2 years ago #
camjam

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Hey everyone,

New user here who found this thread because I'm debating getting a D7000 or a D3100, upgrading from a D40 and looking mostly at video capabilities.

I thought I'd reboot the discussion because I've had trouble finding direct comparisons, and I'm wondering if anyone has had a chance to compare identical video from both of them, or has any other insight if there is any difference whatsoever - whether in low-light performance, jellying effect, etc. I'm leaning towards the D7000, but if the video performance really is basically the same, I might end up going for the D3100 for budgetary reasons.

Thanks,

Cameron

Posted 2 years ago #
davidm44

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studio460 said:

6. May turn off CEC function in HDMI set-up menu to permit LiveView shooting when connected to an external HDMI monitor.

How do you turn off the CEC function on the Nikon D3100? I have it and can't figure it out. In the set up menu it just has:
HDMI>
Output resolution (Auto - 1080i)
Device Control (on / off)
These are the only options.

Posted 2 years ago #
studio460

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studio460 said:
Imaging Resource's D7000 test images are now available for viewing on their "comparometer!"
However, after reviewing IR's comparison images, between the D90 and the D7000, I could find no appreciable difference in their respective ISO/noise performances. And after some review, I've come to about the same conclusions with the D3100/D7000 comparisons.

CORRECTION:

Again, I have many reservations about IR's test scene--it's simply a poor scene for judging noise. However, since that post, I've seen other noise comparisons between the the D90 and D7000, and both those tests, and my own obeservations appear to DISPROVE my above statement. The D7000 does appear to have significantly cleaner pictures at higher ISOs. Haven't performed any studied tests, but at least anecdotally, the D7000 does seem to offer real benefit over the D90 for shooting at high ISOs. As to how the D7000's high-ISO noise performance compares with the D3100's, I'll reserve judgement until I can find an online comparison, other than IR's overlit scene test.

Posted 2 years ago #
studio460

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camjam said:
I thought I'd reboot the discussion because I've had trouble finding direct comparisons, and I'm wondering if anyone has had a chance to compare identical video from both of them, or has any other insight if there is any difference whatsoever - whether in low-light performance, jellying effect, etc. I'm leaning towards the D7000, but if the video performance really is basically the same, I might end up going for the D3100 for budgetary reasons.

Although they have different sensors, I would bet that the overall video quality is similar (i.e., very good), with perhaps a small edge in high-ISO shooting toward the D7000. The greater issue is the lack of manual control over ISO and shutter speed while shooting in D-Movie mode with the D3100. This makes obtaining professional video results extremely difficult. If you want to shoot video, save up for the D7000, or wait for the D5100, and hope that Nikon includes manual exposure control in that body.

davidm44 said:
How do you turn off the CEC function on the Nikon D3100? I have it and can't figure it out. In the set up menu it just has:
HDMI>
Output resolution (Auto - 1080i)
Device Control (on / off)
These are the only options.

Don't know. Does the manual mention anything? I think device control would do what you want it to do (turns off interconnected CEC device control, I believe). But, I wouldn't be surprised if they don't let you turn it off, since they seem to have disabled so many manual controls on this entry-level body, ostensibly, to make it "easier" to use.

Posted 2 years ago #
davidm44

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davidm44 said:
How do you turn off the CEC function on the Nikon D3100? I have it and can't figure it out. In the set up menu it just has:
HDMI>
Output resolution (Auto - 1080i)
Device Control (on / off)
These are the only options.

OKAY!!!! So it's "Device Control (off)" - (daaaahhhhh "To me"). I went to Best Buy and asked them how to get live view from an external source and the guy swore on his Greatx6 Grandmothers Grave that it was not possible... only in playback. So I asked another "Best Buy" Specialist and he said "NO ONLY IN PLAYBACK I'm 98% SUre." So I had a feeling they were technological civilians so I called Nikon and "YOu guessed it" they said "NO ONLY IN PLAY BACK" I asked them do they make a monitor for this or is there any other model camera that does it... NO and Hell NO! Said the little lady on the phone. Is there anyone there who can give you a second opinion ... No you can't do it sir! SO I skipped over to Radio Shack and had a sales associate open a mini HDMI - HDMI cable, In the HDMI menu on the camera I set the device control setting to "OFF" and plugged into one of they're TV's and "WE HAVE LIFT OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

The answer is yes - you "CAN" use an external monitor to live view your video with the Nikon D3100. Life's Good :)
"By the way I just check (I edited this post later) and it's doesn't matter whether the device control is on or off." "It still WORKS!!!"

Posted 2 years ago #
jonnyapple

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That's a funny story, David. But I guess if Nikon doesn't think it works, the people who sell their cameras also won't think it works.

Studio, I agree with you on the high ISO capabilities of the D7000 vs the D90. It's better at low light no matter what that comparator says.

Posted 2 years ago #
CaryTheLabelGuy

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Agreed. My D7000 kills my D5000's sensor in low light, high iso. I've done extensive comparisons. Not only does it better the D90/300/5000 sensor in low light noise, it also has much better IQ and dynamic range.

Btw, this marks my first post on NR! w00t!

Posted 2 years ago #
studio460

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Welcome to NR, Cary!

Great to know guys, but I've yet to get a real-world comparison with the D3100 and D7000. Same generation; different sensors. I would assume they're close, with the D7000 having a slight edge in high-ISO noise levels. I suppose it's just that no one would have BOTH a D3100 and a D7000 available to make studied comparisons.

Posted 2 years ago #
heartyfisher

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I may have access to both soon :-) a friend is probably getting one 3100 and I think I will be getting a 7000 at about the same time .. but it will be after April :-)

PS : Welcome Cary!

Posted 2 years ago #