Has this ever happened to you after a photoshoot?

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Has this ever happened to you after a photoshoot?

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Started 2 years ago by smarterchild
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smarterchild

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I recently did a baby shoot where i handed them a disk of roughly 60 pictures of both color and b+w. She was very happy with the pictures and she told me she wanted some black and white pictures with a little color accents on them ( like hat in color or bow in color or whatever) and i told her that i would edited a few and told her to message me which ones she would like redone in any way like that... And this is what i got..

"I would like the following in black & white:
6788; 7037; 7051; 7091; 7156; 7257; 7323; 7353; 7408; 7493; 7552; 7626;

I would like the following in color:
6791; 6820; 6826; 6837; 6871; 6886; 6916; 6937; 6940; 6961; 7027; 7041; 7084; 7124; 7154; 7156; 7296; 7337; 7366; 7399; 7437; 7479; 7521; 7581; 7632

I would like the following black & white with Isla's Flower (or Butterfly); Headband; and Tutu with purple color accent:
6791; 6826; 7051; 7124; 7154;

I would like the following Black & White with colored hats:
7257; 7552

I would like the following black & white with colored hats and sheet:
7323; 7337; 7399; 7408;
7437 black & white with colored hats only
7552 black & white with colored hats; colored sheets; & colored bumbo

7166 crop-out Wylder black & white; crop-out Wylder black& white with "w" and tie different color; crop-out Wylder in color
6927 black & white with "w" colored
7156 black & white with "w" and tie colored
7626 black & white with colored hats; black & white with colored hats & bumbos
7632 black & white with colored hats; black & white with colored hats & bumbos.
7136 crop-out Isla in black & white; crop-out Isla in black & white with flower, headband, and tutu colored; crop-out Isla in color
7564 crop-out Isla in black & white; crop-out Isla in black & white and colored hat; Crop-out Isla in color; Crop-out Isla in black & white, colored hat, & bumbo
6886; 6916; 6961 black& white with colored tie
7037 photoshop out the black strings on Isla's face"

I told her there was no way i could get this done this weekend, Which i told her i could have a few redone this weekend. I also want to tell her i want more for the orignal price since im looking at a few more hours of photoshop work. any suggestions?

Posted 2 years ago #
Striker

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Sure!
"I will be pleased to do that work but sadly it was not on the contract and I have to charge you an extra. I'm willing to do a couple to show you the final result for free so you can test. Then for each develop I will charge you $xx,xx. Let me know if you still want to develop all those picture of if you prefere to choose a reduced set"

Sorry but I'm not a native english speaker so correct it to sound well! :D

Posted 2 years ago #
smarterchild

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oh its fine thank you! sadly, i havent been using a contract with my shoots. She paid me 125 and was happy to do a little extra editing.. but NOT this much

Posted 2 years ago #
Striker

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Ok so just frankly tell her the same thing omitting the "contract" and telling something like "that is a lot of work and wasn't planned, you just paid for the shot... bla bla bla.." Keep it friendly and she will be happy to pay you the extra...
People tend to squeeze as much as they can... but you must put a limit.. here the "a couple free sample and pay for the other".

:) Hope it helps...

Posted 2 years ago #
tcole1983

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I would just be honest and tell her that is way more work then you had agreed to. Tell her you can do a few of them, but to do all of them will take you considerably more time. If she would like additional editing done then she can give you some additional incentive for it.

Posted 2 years ago #
Super Shooter

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You dug yourself into the hole by charging so little in the first place. Do what she wants and learn from your mistake. Move on from there.

Posted 2 years ago #
smarterchild

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thanks! i plan to message her again. I got her messages last night on my phone and quickly responded to her and said i would need more time but i will have to message her saying after reviewing your requests on my computer and reading though all that you want, that is more work on photoshop for me to do extra to the shoot and would need to charge more for doing the additional editing, or if you want just go through and id be happy to do 10-15 redits for you no charge

after this ill be telling my customers that ill give them roughly 30-60 editing images ( i go through with light room) and if you would like any additional changes to the pictures you recieved you will have to pay 25$ a hour for additional photoshop work. im charging 150$ after that shoot since i was there for 3 hours

Posted 2 years ago #
Striker

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Don't charge per hour! They can't quantificate.. it's more easy for you and them to charge for the whole work (once you know what it will be) or per photo.. so they have a sure price...

Posted 2 years ago #
smarterchild

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this is what i told her in via message

After reviewing the edit requests you asked, I found that it will be more work then i thought it would be last night. Id be happy to redo the ones in color or black and white but the special requests with the color accents would take me hours to do. Each one would probably take me 15mins or so each one. Id be happy to do 5-10 for free but i cant see myself doing all of the photoshop work you requested without additional costs for my time for editing. I hope that you understand

Robert

Posted 2 years ago #
Mike Gunter

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Hi Smarterchild,

In retrospect, you fees were a bit smallish in the first place - actually a lot smallish, and to do more post processing, even more so.

That leaves you in a clear position of telling your customer that you delivered on your end of the bargain, $125 for the 60 images.

Unfortunately, because your customer has something to gauge you by, you won't get much for the extra work (and by my book, you won't get much for what she wants now either). She won't value your time or work effort.

You could possibly learn three lessons from this: (1) Increase your prices to a more reasonable fee - cameras break and need fixing, you have to get around town, things cost money (2) Set those fees attached to things that make sense - such as time it takes to travel to the shoot, or work the image in Photoshop, etc., (shooting subjects and post processing), (3) Get a contract with your customer based on those fees (even if it is a firm handshake) - people are basically honest, if you have a printed price list and let them have it, and you both agree to whatever you're going to do and shake on it, you're pretty much good.

So, you might tell her that it will take xx hours at XX per hour to do.

My best and good luck.

Mike

Posted 2 years ago #
pabnj

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Being I do not know what happened, or what was said before the shoot, it is very hard to advise you how to move forward with your predicament. But being in business to business sales myself, the best advice I can offer anyone dealing with clients is to control your customers expectations. For instance, many people think just because we shoot digital, they should be able to get the photos the same or next day. Let them know without going into technical detail that processing, and retouching photos takes time in order to deliver the quality & color you expect from a professional. Since you do not use contracts, tell the customer exactly what you will deliver, and for what price, then follow-up with an e-mail restating your conversation, and ask them for a reply making sure it's OK. Remember, be specific in your e-mail. Also, keep this in mind, it is far better to under promise and over deliver, than it is to over promise, and under deliver. That's a key to getting repeat business.

If you want my off the cuff advice for the problem at hand, drop her a hint the size of Texas that what she is asking requires a lot of time in Photoshop retouching the photos, and when you offered to edit the photos, mention that you stated a few photos, not dozens then renegotiate more money. If she balks, then you have to make the call if her being happy or not is worth your time.

Posted 2 years ago #
foofiebeast

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Mike Gunter said:
Hi Smarterchild,

In retrospect, you fees were a bit smallish in the first place - actually a lot smallish, and to do more post processing, even more so.

While that may be true in a lot of cases, we (atleast "I" don't know) smarterchild's work history. If this was one of their first jobs (also depending on age) that might be a very reasonable amount. People pay for experience often as much as they pay for the work itself (often of course those two things go hand in hand). If I was to do a shoot for someone I certainly wouldn't expect nearly as much as I'm sure many on this board could and should be paid, as I am a 20 year old college student without much experience.

Maybe I am wrong and smarterchild is a seasoned veteran, but given this situation I would say that this probably isn't the case :)

but apart from that I think that's great advice from everyone, and I know I learned from this thread!

Posted 2 years ago #
pabnj

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Mike Gunter said:
Hi Smarterchild,

In retrospect, you fees were a bit smallish in the first place - actually a lot smallish, and to do more post processing, even more so.

Mike,

I agree with you totally, but I checked Smarterchild's profile, and there it states high school student. Students in high school do what ever they can do to build a portfolio, at what ever the price, so can't fault Smarterchild for the price. He is hungry to be the next Chase Jarvis.

Posted 2 years ago #
Super Shooter

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I still think he should just bite the bullet on this one. Ask for more time, yes, but don't ask for more money. She's your first customer and you want her to spread the news about you to her friends and family. Yeah she's taking advantage of you big time but she did that the second she paid you $125. Seems to me like she didn't like the photos and just doesn't think she's getting her money's worth. So now for the $125 she already paid you she wants you to fix them by performing the edits.

Posted 2 years ago #
foofiebeast

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I think maybe I'd agree with you super shooter if she was unhappy with the work, but I don't think that's the case. I'd also agree if she was asking for something a bit simpler, but what she is asking for is a lot of extra work.

Posted 2 years ago #
Super Shooter

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Exactly why I don't think she was happy with the photos. She might just not want to say flat out I don't like them. He's a kid so she might not want hurt his feelings. Or maybe she's his mom's friend and doesn't know how to say it. The list is too long for me to think she loved the photos as they were handed to her for the price she paid. What she is asking for is mainly just B&W conversions and different cropping. Nothing too complex in my opinion.

Posted 2 years ago #
pabnj

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foofiebeast said:
I think maybe I'd agree with you super shooter if she was unhappy with the work, but I don't think that's the case. I'd also agree if she was asking for something a bit simpler, but what she is asking for is a lot of extra work.

I agree, she was probably happy, but there are people in this world you want everything, and not willing to pay for it. My gut tells me she is one of those. If Smarterchild did say a few, she came back with dozens. That is wrong, and she is an opportunist taking advantage of a student.

Posted 2 years ago #
Super Shooter

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Of course she's an opportunist. Why else would she hire a kid instead of a real photographer. No offense smarterchild.

Posted 2 years ago #
stanlm

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Ha, good story. Yea, I'd do the easy ones first, maybe 1 or 2 of those multi-instruction ones, and have those nicely neatly packaged as you mention about how long it would take to do the remaining most complex ones. If your packaging is really pretty, she may be thrilled and forgo the rest, or perhaps agree to some addition fee, unless she's frugal, in which case, you've already lost, ha ha. good luck :)

Posted 2 years ago #
aslightdelay

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While I've never worked as a photographer, having worked a while in web design (which brings with it a lot of the same kinds of pitfalls), I've dealt with plenty of people like this. For what it's worth, here's my take:

Assuming she works for a living, ask her what she gets per hour. And if you're not comfortable doing that, then ask her how much she values HER time. This isn't just tweaking some highlights; this is, from the looks of it, hours worth of work. It's not as though you didn't do the part of the job you'd agreed on.

Maybe this is one of your first, if not your very first, assignments. I can understand wanting to leave the customer happy, and generate more business on that basis. But you have to ask yourself: if you do all this work gratis, what kind of referrals do you think you're going to get? "Oh, sure. He's great, and he works for next to nothing!" Meet your next half-dozen clients who'll expect a whole lot from you, for little if anything in return. If she doesn't value your time enough to fairly compensate you for it, then you have to put your foot down and value your own time, and yourself, enough to get a fair rate.

And in the future, set realistic expectations up front, and put it in writing. Most people realize that a contract is as much for their protection as yours; anyone who doesn't -- anyone who balks at having it spelled out in black and white -- likely isn't going to be worth the time, effort, and stress they're going to expect from you.

Posted 2 years ago #
pabnj

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Super Shooter said:
Of course she's an opportunist. Why else would she hire a kid instead of a real photographer. No offense smarterchild.

We don't know enough info to make a blanket statement like that. Remember, Smarterchild is a student who has the opportunity to add to his portfolio, and she gets photos of her baby on the cheap. That is a win with for both, however she became an opportunist with her lengthy request.

Posted 2 years ago #
smarterchild

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Super Shooter said:
Of course she's an opportunist. Why else would she hire a kid instead of a real photographer. No offense smarterchild.

No offense im only 19!

heres a few from the shoot...

I got a response to my email. She understands but now wants to know how much it costs to do additional work.

supershooter. This isnt my first job. ive done 2 baby shoots before hers. Ive done several senior photo shoots and also shot 2 weddings by myself along worked with 3 wedding photographers. Im only 19 (well almost in 1 weekish..) but ive been shooting for over 2 years now and i shoot with a D3

im a freshman in college and im studying photography. Moving to chicago next year in for columbia art school

before the shoot we agreed to a CD (my perfered method) i like to give about roughly 30-70 edited pictures to the client for a base fee of 125$. We also agreed that i wouldnt get paid till i gave her the disk. and she told me she wanted a few with the selective color in black+white pictures and i was happy to do a few for her. And told her if she wants any changes just let me know on facebook while i was handing over the disk. and i get this email response that i started this thread about

The client wasnt my moms friend or anything. But my girlfriends moms friend who worked with her. She saw my portfolio and loved my pictures and wanted me to photograph her twins.

Posted 2 years ago #
pabnj

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Smarterchild, they are really nice photos. It seems you have a realistic customer who at least understands work equals money. Consider yourself lucky.

Posted 2 years ago #
Super Shooter

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Just cause your parents bought you a D3 doesn't mean you are a pro kid. It takes a lot of hard work and learning from mistakes like this. This is nothing. Wait until a customer takes you to court, lol. Regardless of how many shoots you've done you are still new to the game if you are asking questions like this.

I remember seeing these photos in another forum and I recall you got a lot of guys telling you they didn't like them. So maybe she didn't like them either and just doesn't have the heart to tell you. But hey if she's willing to pay you another $125 for the post production work then great. You still sold yourself short for $250 for all that work though.

Posted 2 years ago #
shutterdancer

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I would have to agree with most of the other posters....when you told her a few edits,her mind quickly regestered "ALL THE EDITS THAT I WANT"

My suggestion,(no matter how painful the edits might be)is to do them,and on your next shoot clearly define how many "FREE" edits that you will do before charging for your extra time and effort.

If this is one of your first customers,you definitely do not want the bad word of mouth that she can, and probably will generate.

We all learn from our mistakes,and after that much extensive editing....you won't repeat that mistake again ;>)

Posted 2 years ago #