I bet Canon is pushing xxD users to the 7D. 60D specs looks like an overpriced D5000 killer.
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NEW NIKON D7000 Discussion
(191 posts) (52 voices)-
Posted 2 years ago #
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I just hope it has AF fine tune.
Posted 2 years ago # -
iD: Sounds like it.
Abhinav: Which? The 60D or the 7000? A few posters on the other forum said the 60D didn't, and the 7000 I'm not sure of.Posted 2 years ago # -
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Drab said:
And how does the $750 F100 prove Nikon camera bodies don't have alot of built in cost?My point is that a $600-750 F100 proves that the majority of cost as you move above that pricing for a compact camera is the silicon content and software. $750 doesn't to me as a pricing look like a high amount. If they can give that pricing for a low volume product, I think it's a testamony to how inexpensive magnesium bodies and the other hardware (outside sensors, Si) factor into the pricing of D700, D300, and D90. There are Coolpix with magnesium as well which may have been a better example to use.
I would have expected someone who works in semiconductors to realize that Moore's Law is not applicable to Nikon's camera sensors. The two largest costs for a semiconductor are R&D and die size.
Bear with me because there's a mea culpa coming up for those willing to read.... The reason I Made my comments is I focus primarily on Logic and Memory. The comment about largest cost assumes that someone is going it alone in RD and that you are comparing die size as an independent parameter (all other factors including design rules the same). Yields for Logic and Memory are typically by design high and the conversations I've had with Image CMOS in past yield never came up in discussion: Focus was on performance improvements through changes to light transmission, isolation or light blocking on the sensor.
Today I took the time to discuss with a colleague who is working on technologies that focuses on the type of design changes that are enabling the improvements in Image CMOS that strongly contribute to the performance of this generation's sensors. From discussing with him (and he works wth all manufacturers) I have to say I was misunderstanding the specific issues of image CMOS.
Unlike memory where redundancy ensures hight yield in the presence of defectivity and logic where yield depends on the design rules, the light transimssion and ability to accurately measure at the sensor gives a range of performance across pixels in image CMOS. Consistent high range provides a suitable chip for the higher end applications-- the yield for a given level of performance is lower with larger die size (unyielding die find life in lesser applications).
FX and DX sensors do not shrink every generation so die size costs don't go down (if anything they go up (all things being equal) as sensor densities and complexities go up expected yields from a given process would go down due to higher defect rate) and Nikon is very aggressive on R&D w/o the sales volume of someone like Intel to spread the costs a bit thinner.
This is not entirely true. The people I have worked with seem to be strongly motivated to improve the performance of the sensors so I think you underestimate the ability to improve the perfromance of pixels (and "yield" for high end device). My previous discussions with such manufacturers is why I had a haughty attitude.
Regarding R and D and ramp from Nikon, I am know fully aware of who make's who's chips (and accurate information on investment) so will not comment on your statements on this topic but tend to see Nikon's comments as having developed their own chips (as reported at this site) as accurate.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Let's keep the topic on the D7000 and not on Nikon's strategy for sensor designs.
I'll let this thread keep going for one more page and then I'll move it. We should be getting lots of new members interested in this camera in the next few days.2 1/2 weeks until the D7000 announcement! :^)
Posted 2 years ago # -
@NikoDoby: I have been trying to follow the D7000 rumors but lately searching under D90 replacement rumors (NR) gets nowhere.
Hopefully the NR site is still OK as it is a valuable information source. For instance a few amateurs have asked me with great interest about the Nikon D3100 and also asked "But it would be nice to know if there is something even better to be announced soon that might cost more but in the long run would be a better value due to better build quality and better controls". I do believe Nikon's strategy for sensor designs and production is Nikon's business and as we are not building or industrially financing those efforts so much speculation is maybe unwarranted and does run the risk of breaches of security. Apparently the Sept 15 release date is still set.Posted 2 years ago # -
"I'm so excited, I can't sit still or whld a thought in my head"/ Red
Just as I thought, D90 replacemente could be a "mix" between D90 and D300!!!, now i will have to wait till release to realle get a hand of it!
I have a question Niko, how long do you think i should wait to get the new body? See, when D5000 got released, i rushed in to it and got one right away. Then Nikon sent a message to all those buyers and it turns out I had to send my camera to be fixed cause cause there was a failure, don;t know if you remember reading about it. So, do you think i should hold on for like a month or two to get one, or no?
Ty
Posted 2 years ago # -
DaveyJ said:
@NikoDoby: I have been trying to follow the D7000 rumors but lately searching under D90 replacement rumors (NR) gets nowhere.You havent' been trying hard enough as this forum is over run with D90 replacement and D7000 threads! But I know the forum search isn't "The Google" :^(
http://nikonrumors.com/forum/topic.php?id=2368
http://nikonrumors.com/forum/topic.php?id=2453
http://nikonrumors.com/forum/topic.php?id=2468
http://nikonrumors.com/forum/topic.php?id=2461And one more but this discussion is pretty old.
http://nikonrumors.com/forum/topic.php?id=725&page=9Highlandah said:
I have a question Niko, how long do you think i should wait to get the new body? See, when D5000 got released, i rushed in to it and got one right away. Then Nikon sent a message to all those buyers and it turns out I had to send my camera to be fixed cause cause there was a failure, don;t know if you remember reading about it. So, do you think i should hold on for like a month or two to get one, or no?
Ty
Hi Ty, yes I remember the D5000 recall and that's one of the "dangers" of being an early adopter of any new product, not just Nikon cameras. However Nikon did take care of the problem and repairs got done. The problem wasn't something that very many people experienced and the forums weren't "over run" with complaints like the "dust inside my lens, I'm suing Nikon" threads.
The D5000 recall happened pretty quickly and Nikon "caught" the problem very early on. So I really wouldn't worry about that since Nikon learns from such "mistakes" and makes double sure they don't happen. Just look at the bad press Apple's iphone 4 "defects" caused. That's something any manufacturer wants to avoid but recalls do happen and as long as the problem is fixed it shouldn't be a major concern.
The other "danger" that effects early adopters is the full MSRP price. Usually a few months after a product is launched the price will start to fall. So being the first in line always means you will be paying full price versus waiting a few months and buying at a slightly lower price. However I don't think that will be the case for the D7000. This camera is going to be a hot seller for Nikon and it will be hard to find in stock. Even canon users are thinking of buying a D7000 because of the canon 60D "disappointment".
We won't see the D7000 heavily discounted until at least a year. So don't hold out for "Black Friday" hoping to find the D7000 on a "One Day Only" fire sale. Keeping all of the above in mind it's really up to you if you think the D7000 is worth camping out for a few days in a long line outside BestBuy. This camera will sell out quickly and if you need to have one then I recommend you pre-order right away. If not then save up even more money and just wait a few months for demand to fall a bit.
Posted 2 years ago # -
NikoDoby said:
...However I don't think that will be the case for the D7000. This camera is going to be a hot seller for Nikon and it will be hard to find in stock. Even canon users are thinking of buying a D7000 because of the canon 60D "disappointment".We won't see the D7000 heavily discounted until at least a year. So don't hold out for "Black Friday" hoping to find the D7000 on a "One Day Only" fire sale.
I completely agree with this feeling, Niko. Also keep in mind that the dollar continues to slide vs the yen, and it's even more unlikely to see discounts anytime soon. :-(
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business/market_data/currency/12/14/twelve_month.stmPosted 2 years ago # -
Speaking of discounts, when will used D90 prices drop to ~$550?
Posted 2 years ago # -
If stock lasts for a while after the replacement is announced, the D90 might drop in price. The D80 was going for about $550 a month or so after the D90 was released.
Posted 2 years ago # -
@Admin: What I meant was I couldn't get on your site at all which of course has been fixed.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I am close to listing my D90 on craigslist. But would I rather have a 24-120 for Christmas? The main feature that I've got my eye on is the dual card slots that the most recent main blog post is listing. That would help my blood pressure while shooting events. But the weather sealing, better sensor, better video, and better viewfinder is also important. New batteries, though? Annoying (maybe).
Posted 2 years ago # -
jonnyapple said:
I am close to listing my D90 on craigslist. But would I rather have a 24-120 for Christmas? The main feature that I've got my eye on is the dual card slots that the most recent main blog post is listing. That would help my blood pressure while shooting events. But the weather sealing, better sensor, better video, and better viewfinder is also important. New batteries, though? Annoying (maybe).Man, I kinda want this too, but I can't justify it unless the D40 really dies. I'm too cheap. But then there's also the SB-600 replacement, and the 105 Micro I've been pining about for a long time now. I've got about $200 saved up, that's a far way away from a D90 replacement, but pretty close to the flash and 1/4 of the way (give or take) from that lens. I think I'm still going to go for the lens.
I had considered the 24-120, but that had depended on the price. Now that I see that, there's no way in hell I can afford that.
I don't think the battery is going to be a big deal- if you're going to sell your D90 anyway, you won't be keeping any batteries around anyway. Besides, I don't think the D80 changed batteries on the way to the D90, and even used the same battery pack too. I think that was a gift on Nikon's part, they could have changed up the battery pack for more profits.
Also, I think batteries have gone a far ways now. On a good day, I can easily get 1000 shots out of the D40, without flash of course. I'm sure you can expect even better performance out of the replacement.
Posted 2 years ago # -
with the newest info coming in, i am going to get this camera for sure. My next problem is what else am i going to buy with it? : )
Posted 2 years ago # -
i sold my D90 two weeks ago JA - the rumored specs on this site, especially this close to launch, are usually within 75% of the actual - the specs will brutalize the D90 used market, I'm just happy I got $660 for it (sigh). . .
The new battery situation annoys the crap out of me. . .I had kept my "spare" Enel3 whatever from the D90/D200 that I've had because I assumed they'd continue using it (I mean it's $29.99 or somthing, but still). . .
100% VF/16 MPx/dual SD slots. . .WOW, if it has D3-like ISO handling, I'm going to be annoyed with my D3 purchase (lol, not!)
But it will be a stout DX backup to an FX body. . .
Posted 2 years ago # -
I feel you, NSX. There are always so many choices and so many tradeoffs. I guess what I meant by my battery complaint was kind of like what shivas is talking about. I've got two batteries and a grip that I'd love to just carry over to the new camera, but it's looking like that won't work now. You're right, though, I'll just sell the batteries because I won't have another body besides the NEX-5 until this comes out.
Shivas, that seems like you got a great price for your D90. Where did you sell and what did you include if you don't mind my asking? I'm wondering if I can get ~550 for body, grip (zeikos), and two batteries. Does that seem reasonable? I presume you sold yours with the kit lens, which I don't own.
Welcome, Michael DeR.
Posted 2 years ago # -
JA - no, without the kit lens; just the body only, all original paperwork, battery, chargers, etc. with plastic bags (was essentially new). . .I sold it on amazon.com under the used section. You get dicked on the commission they charge (I netted $663, but it actually sold for $718); HOWEVER, if you sell via Ebay+Paypal, it comes to virtually the same in commission charges (ebay charges listing fees, 9% sale fee; paypal 3% CC fee which most use).
Amazon also protects both buyers and sellers - they have a return policy so everyone is comfy, and you're covered if the buyer alleges false things (ALWAYS take pictures of the body before it's shipped out). . .just FYI's. . .
Posted 2 years ago # -
Hi all,
Niko - I plan to be one of the first in line for the D7000-D95-Dwhatever. My D90 has enough clicks on it that I can pretty much say I got my money's worth. I'm keeping it for back up and selling my D80 when the new one comes in.
Frankly, I like the *melding* of the D90/D300s to a new model, if that's what Nikon is doing - I'd hate to second guess them. I don't know that the beefing up the body is indeed weatherproofing, something I'm keen to see on the D90.
I'm also very glad to read your remarks on early adopters. I hope your right. I will likely have to let someone (B&H most likely - I have a good and long relationship with them), have the use of some of my cash for a few weeks before the camera arrives. Kind of sucks, but that is pretty much what the sellers do for unavailable new models. I've squirreled away my money and I hope the cameras are available soon. My credit card is just jumping out of my pocket.
Nikon has held a warm place in my heart and shooting kit for over 40 years, since I covered the War in Vietnam with 6 bodies dangling over my neck. I've owned every 'F' model since 'F' through 'F4' and a bunch of Nikkormats.
The closure of the D300s might happen, but I'd hate to call it. It's part of the Nikon Professional Services Program, in fact the only camera in the DX line up that is. Nikon has bounce around on its Professional Services Program over the years, and the D300s is one of the qualifying cameras. So if it closes the model, that would mean that only the FX cameras would qualify for the program (which is currently 'free'). Right now you have to have two *professional* model cameras bodies - D300s, D700, D3s, etc., and provide some tear sheets of professional work to qualify for the Professionals services program.
What might happen, of course, is that it might switch to a 'fee-based' program. It has been in the past.
I would rather that it did. Some of us might prefer to use smaller cameras for different reasons.
In some of the organizations I've worked for, we've used the service and it's record - as I know it - is worth having. Sometimes blazing fast, always worthwhile.
But, I really don't know how Nikon as a company is going to address the DX marketplace (space) and FX marketplace (space) as a different entity as professional or amateur. It would be a real shame if the corporate culture were to make a distinction.
As for the new camera, ounce of ounce and dollar for dollar the D90 may well be the best digital camera on the market. The replacement has a tough act to follow.
My best to all,
Mike
Posted 2 years ago # -
I'm new to this forum as poster... but have been reading for a while so forgive if this is off base of this thread... I'm curious and looking for opinions on what to do for our next camera body. I've been thinking of buying another body for a while and have been thinking my next would be the D300s, soon very soon. Seeing all the talk and the specs about the D7000 have me questioning that decision from a "value" standpoint and wondering my next move now.
I can get the D300s from Sam's Club for $1449, and if the D7000 comes in at $1199 or close to it, is the extra $250 worth it seeing as how the D7000 has soo many like features and some are speculated to be above and beyond what the D300s offers.
I know it's not an easy question to answer as there are so many variables dealing with styles, subjects, use...but bottom line sometimes is the almighty dollar and the value...
My main reasons for the indecision are the new sensor, hopefully better ISO and noise reduction, and the same or better fps. I like the D300s for the frame, weather resistence, AF, and ergonomics.
Thoughts to help the noob decide?
Posted 2 years ago # -
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@dzmconstr:
Just be patient....... when the D7000 comes to stores, just compare the two bodies, look how they feel, and then make up your mind ;-)
Posted 2 years ago # -
Thanks, shivas and iD. I listed it on craigslist for $675 based on this info (I'd rather give the difference to the buyer and not ebay and paypal). I've already had two people contact me to come see it.
Mike G, I agree about the D90 and about getting a D7000. I'll bet it will be available for preorder within a week of the announcement. Dzm, I agree with congo. If you've got to have a camera now, then the D7000 isn't even an option, but if you can wait a while you'll see whether the difference in specs (and handling) will help you make your decision. Welcome to the forum, all three of you.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I am thinking about getting a d7000 as a backup to my d700. i would really like to see how it performs with the 70-200 vrii and tc-20eiii. i am using that for field sports until i can afford a 500 f4.
having the 70-200 with tele on the d7000 would effectively be a 210-600 5.6.
that is definitely worth considering as i already have the glass and i know its gonna be sharp.
as stated rather heatedly too many times already in this thread. i do expect weather sealing and not needing to use the menus for iso, wb, ap, and ss.
also need auto iso on off.
Posted 2 years ago #
Topic Closed
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