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NEW NIKON D7000 Discussion

(191 posts) (52 voices)
  • Started 2 years ago by NikoDoby
  • Latest reply from NikoDoby
  • Related Topics:
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    2. No D7000 listed on the Nikon USA site
    3. Nikon D7000 with lens buying
    4. Zoom Lens advice to complement new Nikon D7000
    5. Review: Nikon D7000 Beyond the Basics from QuickPro

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  1. NikoDoby

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    Jon the best camera for you is the one you can afford. Until the D7000 "reviews" are out (or at least the image samples) we can't really say it's as good or better than a D700 but what I can say now is that the "rumors" seem to indicate that for a DX camera the D7000 will at least come "close" to the D700 performance. However if you can't wait for Oct/Nov for the D7000 then perhaps the D90 or D3100 would be better for you? It really depends on how long you can wait and how much you can afford.

    The D7000 should come in near the $1200 mark for body only. The D90 is already around $750-800 body only. The D700 is still around $2400 and the D3100 will come in at $700 for a body and lens kit.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  2. Paperman

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    NikoDoby said:
    The D7000 should come in near the $1200 mark for body only...The D700 is still around $2400.

    Well,some gap to fill between the D7000 and cheapest FX - if done away with prosumer DX body . And don't forget it's not just the body ; add another $1000-2000 for the same range FX lenses .

    Killing prosumer DX will be one daring move from Nikon - the most conservative DSLR producer.

    We will just hang on to our D300/s for another 2-3 years rather than go down to a simpler body or get ripped off by the FF format. I'm not sure that's what Nikon wants.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  3. NikoDoby

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    I wasn't aware the 35mm format was a rip off. I guess the camera companies have been taking advantage of people for over 50 years now. Just because you can't afford the most recent FX lenses doesn't mean all of the previous 30 years worth of Nikkors are useless.

    Same with the D90 once the D7000 comes out. It'll still be a great camera. Especially with the f1.8 35mm lens :^)

    Posted 2 years ago #
  4. aslightdelay

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    Paperman said:
    Well,some gap to fill between the D7000 and cheapest FX - if done away with prosumer DX body . And don't forget it's not just the body ; add another $1000-2000 for the same range FX lenses .

    Killing prosumer DX will be one daring move from Nikon - the most conservative DSLR producer.

    We will just hang on to our D300/s for another 2-3 years rather than go down to a simpler body or get ripped off by the FF format. I'm not sure that's what Nikon wants.

    Am I smoking the wrong brand? 'Cause it sounds like you've got some serious sh...tuff over there.

    Let's assume for a minute that you're right for a second that the 300 is the end of the X00's in the DX line. First off, they're not going to get rid of the prosumer DX; as has been discussed ad nauseam on other threads, there's still a robust market segment that needs/wants a pro-level DX. Second, let's extrapolate out from what seems to be going on now, based on the 3100. I know it's dangerous to speculate based on a single body, but bear with me.

    The 3100 comes VERY close to being not only a d3000 replacement, but also starts to nip at the heels of the D5000. It seems reasonable that the 5100, to open the gap back up, would have specs closer to what we're used to from the D90, while the 7000 would step into what would otherwise have been the gap between the 90 and the 300s.

    Sound far-fetched? Then why have specs in the 7000 that either match, or surpass, the 300s? And why release the 's' as a stop-gap versus going straight to the D400?

    And a "rip-off"? How, exactly? Just because a Ferrarri is out of my price range doesn't make it a rip-off. Just makes it damned expensive. But if I need the performance that it's going to offer, why'm I going to settle for a Mustang? People who have legacy (read: old, sometimes REALLY old) lenses can use them on the 300 and above. And you know something? They probably paid top dollar for them back in the day, too. But think about the ROI on a lense you can still use five, ten, or more years later -- on what is, in many ways, an entirely different platform/technology -- and then try to tell me it's a rip-off.

    Here endeth the rant. :)

    Posted 2 years ago #
  5. Paperman

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    aslightdelay said:
    While I think it's entirely possible to see a merger of the 90 and 300, I just can't see Nikon shooting itself in the foot by getting rid of the features you listed. I think the pro market for DX (at least as far as Nikon goes) would vanish if they left that large of a divide between DX and FX.

    Exactly what I'm saying - from my first comment on in this topic . The DX prosumer must stay. Your interpretation of my words however seems to be the opposite.

    aslightdelay said:
    Am I smoking the wrong brand? 'Cause it sounds like you've got some serious sh...tuff over there.

    Let's assume for a minute that you're right for a second that the 300 is the end of the X00's in the DX line. First off, they're not going to get rid of the prosumer DX; as has been discussed ad nauseam on other threads, there's still a robust market segment that needs/wants a pro-level DX.

    The problem is you that you have been a day away and don't bother reading carefully enough what is written in the past 2 pages - just to write down in haste what is in your head and give necessary crap ASAP to the newcomers on forum .

    What is wrong with starting your sentence with " I don't agree ... "

    Anyway , read again - this time S L O O O O W L Y ....

    ----------------

    Oh yeah , I agree "rip off" ( which blew your fuses ) is not the correct expression and wasn't really the opinion I had in mind . I should have just said FF was very expensive .

    Posted 2 years ago #
  6. aslightdelay

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    I've been following the thread, Paperman. Calm down. And my interpretation, as you've mentioned, pretty much agrees with yours (they need the prosumer DX), with the only difference being that I don't think it's going anywhere.

    Paperman said:
    Exactly what I'm saying - from my first comment on in this topic . The DX prosumer must stay. Your interpretation of my words however seems to be the opposite.

    The problem is you that you have been a day away and don't bother reading carefully enough what is written in the past 2 pages - just to write down in haste what is in your head and give necessary crap ASAP to the newcomers on forum .

    What is wrong with starting your sentence with " I don't agree ... "

    Oh yeah , I agree "rip off" ( which blew your fuses ) is not the correct expression and wasn't really the opinion I had in mind . I should have just said FF was very expensive .

    Nothing wrong with it at all. I just don't do warm and fuzzy very well. :) As for the poor word choice on your part, I'm not a mind reader, so all I have to go on was what you'd written versus anything you may have been thinking.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  7. Paperman

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    aslightdelay said:
    I've been following the thread, Paperman. Calm down. And my interpretation, as you've mentioned, pretty much agrees with yours (they need the prosumer DX), with the only difference being that I don't think it's going anywhere.

    I don't think it is going anywhere either . I'm just answering Niko & others who is suggesting it probably is ... ( you haven't read well again :-)) )

    Posted 2 years ago #
  8. aslightdelay

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    Bleh. It's almost three in the morning. I'll have another look when the bags under my eyes don't have straps and handles. :)

    Posted 2 years ago #
  9. NikoDoby

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    You need to go back and reread Paper. I never said there won't be a "prosumer DX" camera. I said that the Dx00 line might go full frame because the D90/D300 were just too similar with too much of a price gap between them.

    NikoDoby said:
    I'm not saying the Dx00 line is dying off I'm saying it might switch over to full frame like the D1series did (D2X-D3).

    But I really don't understand why you're so worked up about what anyone has said about a camera that doesn't even exist!...yet.

    You can at least wait until Nikon makes their next announcement before you start banging the war drum :^)

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    Posted 2 years ago #
  10. Paperman

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    NikoDoby said:
    But I really don't understand why you're so worked up about what anyone has said about a camera that doesn't even exist!...yet.

    You can at least wait until Nikon makes their next announcement before you start banging the war drum :^)

    Jesus Niko :-) You're the one that started the topic and made all the assumptions on a nonexistent camera .

    I just happened to join a day later on second page after your comment which I disagreed.

    And now I'm the one so worked up ! ! :-)

    Posted 2 years ago #
  11. NikoDoby

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    At least get my name right! It's Niko Doby, not Jesus Niko. Niko is my first name not my last.

    Paperman said:
    I strongly disagree with those saying D300/300s body may be dropped/discontinued .
    Nikon , don't touch my D300 !! :-)

    Like it or not the D300/300S will be dropped/discontinued. The moment the D7000 comes out with the "rumored" specs then the D300 becomes "obsolete". Nikon knows this and that's why they discounted the D300S so heavily. The D300S price dropped as low as $1499! at one point. And they tried to move as many as they could by continuing to extend their rebate program.

    Not even when the D300 was replaced by the D300S did the D300 price fall that much. So we've know for a while that "something was up" with the D300S. The D300 was up for a replacement last year but instead of getting the D400 like everyone expected we "just" got a D300 with dual card slots and 720 video. Even at that time people were asking how a D300S could compete for 2 more years against new cameras like the 7D.

    Now the D7000 "could" out spec the D90 AND the D300S(not to mention the D700 too) So the dots are connecting.

    But however you want to force fit the pieces, the D7000 will be a great camera.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  12. JDeV

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    NikoDoby said:
    Jon the best camera for you is the one you can afford. Until the D7000 "reviews" are out (or at least the image samples) we can't really say it's as good or better than a D700 but what I can say now is that the "rumors" seem to indicate that for a DX camera the D7000 will at least come "close" to the D700 performance. However if you can't wait for Oct/Nov for the D7000 then perhaps the D90 or D3100 would be better for you? It really depends on how long you can wait and how much you can afford.

    The D7000 should come in near the $1200 mark for body only. The D90 is already around $750-800 body only. The D700 is still around $2400 and the D3100 will come in at $700 for a body and lens kit.

    The good news is I'm slow right now(or is that bad news :D), so I can wait for awhile. If I need something in an emergency to back up my D200, I have my son's D80.

    I have 2 DX lenses(12-24mm and a 70-300mm) and 3 FX lenses(28-70mm, 60mm macro, and the 80-200mm) from my film days. If I went with an FX body, I'd probably pick up a 20mm, so I can go either DX or FX with a new body.

    Jon

    Posted 2 years ago #
  13. shivaswrath

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    NikoDoby said:
    At least get my name right! It's Niko Doby, not Jesus Niko. Niko is my first name not my last.

    Like it or not the D300/300S will be dropped/discontinued. The moment the D7000 comes out with the "rumored" specs then the D300 becomes "obsolete". Nikon knows this and that's why they discounted the D300S so heavily. The D300S price dropped as low as $1499! at one point. And they tried to move as many as they could by continuing to extend their rebate program.

    Not even when the D300 was replaced by the D300S did the D300 price fall that much. So we've know for a while that "something was up" with the D300S. The D300 was up for a replacement last year but instead of getting the D400 like everyone expected we "just" got a D300 with dual card slots and 720 video. Even at that time people were asking how a D300S could compete for 2 more years against new cameras like the 7D.

    Now the D7000 "could" out spec the D90 AND the D300S(not to mention the D700 too) So the dots are connecting.

    But however you want to force fit the pieces, the D7000 will be a great camera.

    Didn't I call this awhile ago? Glad I just sold my D90 (though backup). . .what's annoying is that the noise handling of the D3100 from what I can gather are amazingly close to that of the D3/D700 sensor. . .what the hell did Nikon do to achieve that?!

    Posted 2 years ago #
  14. Paperman

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    NikoDoby said:
    Like it or not the D300/300S will be dropped/discontinued.....

    Of course it will - who's saying the D300/s will stay forever...I'm talking about the prosumer body size/shape -whatever you call it . It will continue in another DX model.

    Bet you 20 bucks !

    NikoDoby said:
    ...Nikon knows this and that's why they discounted the D300S so heavily. The D300S price dropped as low as $1499! at one point...

    Not even when the D300 was replaced by the D300S did the D300 price fall that much. So we've know for a while that "something was up" with the D300S.

    The D300 was around $1450 last year , the D300s came out around $1650-1699 and is still $1549-$1589 in all camera shops where I live - even with a D400 expectation. I hardly call $100 drop in one year a heavy discount . ( Do you know how much Canon 40D & 50D price fell down in a year ? )

    Posted 2 years ago #
  15. NikoDoby

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    I never said there wouldn't be any more "semi-pro" DX models. I just said the D7000 would be more like a D90 and D300 rolled into one. Nikon could always improve on that even more. I've been talking about the Dx00 line going full frame only.

    I was also referring to the price drop of the D300S from the $1800 MSRP. The D300 didn't drop until a few months before the D300S and that was after two years of being on the market at MSRP. The D300S dropped to $1400 only a few months after it was announced. That big of a drop normally doesn't happen with a new model. Imagine if the D90 price went to $600 three or four months after it was originally announced.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  16. Drab

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    JDeV said:
    I have 2 DX lenses(12-24mm and a 70-300mm) and 3 FX lenses(...

    I am unaware of any Nikon-brand 70-300 DX lenses. The VR, G, and ED are all FX.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  17. JDeV

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    Drab said:
    I am unaware of any Nikon-brand 70-300 DX lenses. The VR, G, and ED are all FX.

    Sorry, I bought it used a couple of years ago. It's actually the ED. So I actually have only one DX lens. What really ticks me off is the fact that I owned the Nikkor 20mm AF F2.8 and must have sold it. When I closed down my studio in '92, I sold all my 'Blads, and Toyoviews, but kept all my 35mm stuff. I don't remember selling the 20mm, but I've looked everywhere and can't find it, so I must have sold it! I loved that lens for landscapes, so I can't understand why the hell it's gone!

    Jon

    Posted 2 years ago #
  18. The Man From Mandrem

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    I have to say that working in high tech I am sympathetic to those who are new to the concept of rapid price reduction with technology.

    Lenses are really where Nikon will make their money.

    So far I doubt they have the volume of camera bodies and upgrades where they can look at the camera as enabling lens sales. If the DSLR takes more video market share I suspect that can happen though.

    There's not alot of built in cost associated with Nikon camera bodies. The current pricing of the F100 at B&H dispells all such beliefs from the market place. Looking at my beloved N70 it's hard to look at it's simple LEDs, the fact that lesser models of it's time didn't support spot metering, and current F100 pricing and believe that anything other than Moore's Law is driving the pricing of DSLR device of today and tomorrow.

    I work in semiconductors so I"m less surprised by this reality. Frankly it seems to me that people who bemoan the strengths of the D3100 vs. the D5000 and the D7000 (sucky name) vs the D90 and D3000 don't see the bigger picture.

    I think the question is really what IP you would hold back for a purely pro crowd to justify $5000 magnesium bodies in the future that you don't support in prosumer 5 years down the line. I'm guessing (innocently) that it's purely on the software side.
    There are two ways to price a product. Cost + and value pricing. On the Cost+, a $600 F100 makes it hard for people to believe that a $5000 DSLR is based on cost+. So what other than the sensor defines that pricing.

    A cynical student of Macchiavelli would say that moving their sensor away from Sony's helps them manage their pricing arguement going forward (with potentially very strong ramifications a few years down the road). I think there's more to it. I see alot of people (Sony, ST, others) who are passionate about generative value in Sensors. When they hit a wall, I think the Sony's, ST's, Canons, Nikons and TSMC's will all commodities.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  19. Drab

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    The Man From Mandrem said:
    There's not alot of built in cost associated with Nikon camera bodies. The current pricing of the F100 at B&H dispells all such beliefs from the market place.

    And how does the $750 F100 prove Nikon camera bodies don't have alot of built in cost?

    I would have expected someone who works in semiconductors to realize that Moore's Law is not applicable to Nikon's camera sensors. The two largest costs for a semiconductor are R&D and die size. FX and DX sensors do not shrink every generation so die size costs don't go down (if anything they go up (all things being equal) as sensor densities and complexities go up expected yields from a given process would go down due to higher defect rate) and Nikon is very aggressive on R&D w/o the sales volume of someone like Intel to spread the costs a bit thinner.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  20. heartyfisher

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    But the sensor is not all the electronics in the camera. and yes the size does not shrink but all the tech around creating it will. so maybe the curve is less steep than conventional it devices but its still pretty steep.

    agree that the F100 price has little to do with anything.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  21. shivaswrath

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    i would imagine the new 14mpx sensor is more $$ than the previous gen DX sensors based on pixel density alone. . .

    currently, I've estimated FX sensors to run the manufacturer around $750-1000; DX 30% less; so I'm SURE that now that Nikon has brought this all in house, the costs will go up, not down, because they were using mass production/volume discounts with Sony that they'll be forced to bypass now.

    All the sensors made in Japan, but them, (FX currently) are usually more expensive. . .so the aggressive pricing of the D3100 might signal they are willing to "lose" on the body (like Sony did with the Ps3) and make up for in the great lenses they are offering. . .

    Posted 2 years ago #
  22. studio460

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    Wow! Lots of action in this thread!

    The Man From Mandrem said:
    I work in semiconductors so I"m less surprised by this reality . . . There are two ways to price a product. Cost + and value pricing . . .

    I would argue that Moore's law isn't as directly applicable to a complex imaging technology product such as the modern D-SLR, which incorporates far more than just PCBs and semiconductors (opto-mechnical components, electro-mechanical components, CODEC firmware, etc.). Also, there are many additional methods of pricing. In this context, selling price is also largely determined by market size, brand perception, and prices of competitor products. The market size for multiple-thousand dollar D-SLR bodies is far smaller than say, for a general-purpose CPU. Even less so for a memory chip, a mostly commoditized product (no noticable product differentiaion by the consumer).

    The Man From Mandrem said:
    Frankly it seems to me that people who bemoan the strengths of the D3100 vs. the D5000 and the D7000 (sucky name) vs the D90 and D3000 don't see the bigger picture.

    Bigger picture? Explain.

    Oh yeah . . . welcome to the forum!

    Posted 2 years ago #
  23. aslightdelay

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    I'm starting to see this whole thing in much the same way I look at buying razors. The initial outlay isn't as much, comparatively speaking, but you end up running into some cash when it comes time to replace the blades (28 bucks for what, four of them?)

    Similarly, I think anybody that's serious about photography ends up running into the same thing; the initial outlay on the average camera (that is to say, anything below the D3 family) isn't awful, but once you start getting into good lenses...

    The analogy holds at another level, too; you can get cheap disposables, but they're not going to give you the same "shave" (ie. quality) that you'd get with the good stuff. After all, who wants stubble on their photos? :)

    Posted 2 years ago #
  24. padlockd

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    Canon just released the 60D.

    --18 MP
    --Full 1080p HD video
    --9 AF points
    --5.3 fps
    --flip out LCD
    --ISO 100-6400 (expandable up to 12800)
    --$1100 body only

    What do you guys think?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  25. aslightdelay

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    Not bad, but if the 7000 comes in with the predicted specs (including more and faster AF) and an alloy/sealed body, I'd still lean that way. I am still holding out hope that the 7000 will have an articulated LCD...

    EDIT: Just popped into the Canon Rumors forum, as I was a bit curious what they were saying about this. Some seriously mad people over there... a number of them see the 60D as a step backward. Some of them sound nearly as psyched about the D7000 as some of us are here.

    Posted 2 years ago #

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