Re pentax 110, If they had stuck with it just a bit longer.. then that would have been a great DSLR system with interchangeable lenses.
Nikon Concept Camera = EVIL At Photokina
(94 posts) (16 voices)-
Posted 2 years ago #
-
I doubt nikon will release 3x crop, this would be suicidal for them - when we already have 2x crops from pana and oly and 1.5x from sony (which is awesome), so I would expect a progress not a regress - FF EVIL :D
Posted 2 years ago # -
I agree Adam but that's based on the patents Nikon has already filed. Although just because there are patents for smaller lenses doesn't mean they'll go into production. So we can still hope they will go with at least a DX sensor like the Sony NEX but some rumors also say Nikon will join m4/3rds!
Posted 2 years ago # -
I would like nikon to go 4/3.. First time hearing this rumor though...
Posted 2 years ago # -
I think it is unlikely Nikon would go 4/3s. Nikon's advantage over Canon has always been the smaller size size of the F-mount, I bet they could make a F-mount for a small mirror-less camera and stick with DX.
Posted 2 years ago # -
PB PM said:
...I bet they could make a F-mount for a small mirror-less camera and stick with DX.It would have to be a new mount, Rob, or people would be tempted to attach older (current) F-mount lenses, which are designed to focus quite a way behind the mating plane of the mount (50mm? someone probably knows). That would just be a waste of the thinner cameras possible with a mirrorless design.
Posted 2 years ago # -
That's why Sony had to create the totally new E-mount and lenses even though they still used a "DX" sensor. Nikon will probably offer an adapter (like Sony) for the F-mount but on a 2.5-3X crop sensor that's going to be a big difference.
If Nikon does put the "110" sensor into production then they must really be confident in a) the very small size and "retro" design of the cameras and lenses or b) the image quality eg. dynamic range and high ISO of such a small sensor.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Or they could just add a new class of F-mount lenses, AF-M (Micro)? Put huge warning on the box, AF-M lenses only.
Posted 2 years ago # -
PB PM said:
Or they could just add a new class of F-mount lenses, AF-M (Micro)? Put huge warning on the box, AF-M lenses only.That is not a bad idea. I still would prefer them cramming a Dx sensor into the EVIL instead of a "17mm" or something
jonnyapple said:
It would have to be a new mount, Rob, or people would be tempted to attach older (current) F-mount lenses, which are designed to focus quite a way behind the mating plane of the mount (50mm? someone probably knows). That would just be a waste of the thinner cameras possible with a mirrorless design.Couldn't the fix an optic issue with firmware or a retractable mount?
Posted 2 years ago # -
Firmware wouldn't fix the issue of how far into the camera the rear element of lenses comes into the body. It wouldn't be a problem with telephoto primes, where the rear element is deep inside the lens body, but putting a 12-24mm F4 DX on such a mirror-less camera would be a recipe for disaster for the rear element or sensor. A retractable mount is impractical, and would break far to easily.
Personally, I'm all for the AF-M type idea, rather than a totally new mount. They could sell an adapter (size wise it could be like the TC14E) for mounting standard lenses.
Posted 2 years ago # -
No way! There is already enough confusion with AF-S, AF-D, AF, G, DX, FX, etc. etc. Nikon should work on simplifying their nomenclature not expanding it! Especially if this new "110" EVIL camera is going to be aimed at COOLPIX buyers.
Even Olympus is moving away from their 4/3rd cameras and towards a broader m4/3rd lineup. Perhaps Nikon can call there's mF-mount?
Posted 2 years ago # -
There is an easy way to simplify things, AF-DX, AF-FX, AF-M, while dropping the D,G&N crap. Of course in order to do that all AF-D lenses would have to be discontinued/updated and current AF-S models would just be renamed as needed.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Huh? isnt its easy? (I really should patent stuff.. sigh..) They can keep the Fmount on the EVF but modify it so that it only mounts new special lenses that can mount on both EVF and the old DSLR. The new lenses will know which camera its on and focus accordingly.
Posted 2 years ago # -
So just to be clear, everyone agrees that there wouldn't be anything to stop current lenses from mounting on a mirrorless camera as long as there's some kind of extender to keep it the proper distance from the sensor (and avoid crashing the lens into the sensor like Rob is saying), right?
What can't happen is to make it go the other way—lenses for mirrorless are not designed to retrofocus and wouldn't be able to focus at infinity if put on an slr. They would basically be shortsighted.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Bingo jonny, it is a one way ticket for backwards comparability, which I might add has always been something Nikon has bragged about.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Nah It can work.. the new lenses can have a simple adapter similar to a TC. to attach to an old DSLR.
Posted 2 years ago # -
If I'm not mistaken, the retrofocus element actually needs to be at the front of the lens, so what you'd need is a clip-on/screw-on extra group of lenses at the front, and it would be pricier than a TC because it would use more glass at the front than at the back. But I'm not an optical engineer, so I may not be right. Does anyone know?
So as far as I know, this is the mirrorless camera's advantage: wide angle lenses don't need those huge front elements because they can focus where they do naturally. For example, focused at infinity, a group of lenses with an effective focal length of 17mm would focus 17mm behind the group (not technically true, but almost). For an SLR, that group of lenses would need to have a group of lenses with a negative focal length (convex lenses have negative focal length) added to the front in order to make the new imaging plane further from the back of the lens so the lens can avoid the mirror. If you put the retrofocus group on the back, I don't think you don't get an image anywhere unless you have yet another group of lenses between the retrofocus group and the sensor. It doesn't seem practical to me, so that's why I say I think it's impossible. Incidentally, telephoto lens design would stay essentially the same because the retrofocus isn't the problem there—the front element is large because it needs to be to get a large aperture compared with the focal length. Basically, because you're collecting light from a very small amount of solid angle compared with a wide angle lens, the front element needs to be big to capture all it can.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Hmmm.. I am no lens engineer.. Its magical to me that they can stick a bit of glass behind the lens and make it a 1.4 time TC and move the focal point for every lens by the exact same amount. cant see that that is any different for an adapter for a mirror less lens.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I'm not sure if you have it right jonny, because Olympus OM lenses from the film days work on their m4/3s camera with a simple adapter between the body and the lens.
Posted 2 years ago # -
PB PM said:
There is an easy way to simplify things, AF-DX, AF-FX, AF-M, while dropping the D,G&N crap.Actually wouldn't that be AF-DX, AF-FX, and AF-MX? although the MX abbreviation has been spotted before but it was associated with a new medium format Nikon rumor.
PB PM said:
I'm not sure if you have it right jonny, because Olympus OM lenses from the film days work on their m4/3s camera with a simple adapter between the body and the lens.The problem isn't attaching older lenses to an EVIL body. An adapter simply extends the space between the sensor and the back of the lens as you guys already mentioned. So Nikon can, like Olympus and others, offer an adapter for their new EVIL camera so you can use your DX and FX lenses.
The problem is using new EVIL lenses on your current cameras. The EVIL lenses would have to be closer to the sensor than would be possible because of the reflex mirror. I suppose you could use something like a TC adapter that was opposite a regular TC but image quality would suffer and your lenses would lose light just like with a regular teleconverter. So your f3.5 lens would be something like f5.6 or whatever, etc. So there really wouldn't be a point to it.
So if you want a new EVIL Nikon camera as backup to your new D9000 then you'll still have to carry around two or possible three (DX, FX, MX) types of lenses! Which to me is like having to carry around three different sets of batteries or something like that.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Oh I understand that it wouldn't be possible to use the lenses for an evil camera on an SLR. I doubt it would be a problem, I mean how many people have you seen trying to attach m4/3s lenses to 4/3s SLRs? If the target buyers for this system are coolpix users, which you suggested, then does it really matter? They would be unlikely to own an SLR anyway, and pros who want the small EVIL camera, I'm sure they'd figure it out.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Well the difference between m4/3rds and 4/3rds is not the same as the difference between FX /DX to "110" which is slightly smaller than m4/3ds.
Yes the "110" Nikon EVIL might be geared towards COOLPIX users but that doesnt mean DSLR users arent going to buy it. Just look at how many forum members here have already purchased the Sony NEX and that camera just came out. Im willing to wait for Nikons EVIL but the "110" spec rumors have me A bit worried.Posted 2 years ago # -
Yes, size wise m4/3s and 4/3s are the same, but my point was that the people who own Olympus E-3s don't mess up and put m4/3s lenses on their cameras, even if they own both. If they can manage two sets of lenses, I'm sure Nikon users can too.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Yes i understand that but what i meant is that the lenses will be significantly different size wise then olympus not just the sensors.
Like i said before what would convience me is if nikon makes their EVIL a lot like their original rangefinder lenses with better image quality against the much larger sensors. Otherwise hello Panasonic GF2 or Sony NEX 7
Posted 2 years ago # -
Oh I agree completely, going smaller than 4/3s would be a big mistake. If Nikon doesn't use a APS-C sized sensor I wouldn't even think twice about getting one.
Heck, even the retro design like their old rangefinders would be cool, it would draw people who would like a Leica, but cannot afford them.
Posted 2 years ago #
Reply »
You must log in to post.
