D700 see spots that change locations after a sensor clean

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D700 see spots that change locations after a sensor clean

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Pierre

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A few weeks ago I was proudly showing my D700 pictures to a friend when he asked what were all these spots in the sky. I had noticed them before but presumed my lense was probably dirthy. Today, looking down the barrel of my AF-s 70-200 2.8GII, I noticed some flakes on the glasses inside the lense. Before blowing a fuse to the place I purchased my camera and lenses a month ago, I decided to do some test.

Shooting at an empty patch of sky, with both my 70-200 and my 24-70 at various focus and zoom setting both in Jpeg and NEF, I could clearely see dark circular spots, all at the same location in each pictures. Which lense or setting was used did not seams to make any difference.

Thinking the sensor was dirthy, I digg into the menu and do a sensor clean, then shoot again, surprise, the spots were still there but at slightly different locations. More cleans, more spots again at different location, slowly migrating to the right top corner. The number of spots seams to increase with the more cleans I do.

Then playing with ISO, I noticed that the spots were much sharper and smaller at higher ISO.

Anyone has a clue of what is going on?

Posted 2 years ago #
NikoDoby

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That's just dust that is really stuck to the sensor no big deal! Just do a wet cleaning or take it to a Nikon service place that wet cleans sensors

Posted 2 years ago #
Pierre

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What's about the dust I see in the inner glass of the 70-200? That do not sounds too normal.

Posted 2 years ago #
NikoDoby

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That will not affect your pictures. If it did then every time you had a finger print on your lens you'd see it on your photos. Seriously stop worrying about how much you spent on your gear and don't let something like this bother you. Just do a wet cleaning or return your camera for a refund. Whatever makes you happy.

Posted 2 years ago #
Pierre

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NikoDoby said:
Seriously stop worrying about how much you spent.

Thanks for your insight. I sense a bit of aggravation in your writing and it is not my intent to annoy anyone.

Actually I care more about having crystal clear picture, especially if there is something I can do to improve them, otherwise I would have bought cheaper. At the price Nikon sells their prime lenses, one would expect that they assemble them in a dust-free environment. For sure if I had spent $200 on a lens, I could not be too picky but at $2200 I expect perfection, don't you?

I have seen a wet-clean being performed and it sounds a bit scary to touch the sensor. What are the risks, consequences and draw-back? How do you do it? You use a kit? How often do you do it? Should I try compressed air in a can before?

You cap your camera during a lens change?

Posted 2 years ago #
kauyeung

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See if this is your issue. A common complain about the nikon 70 - 200 F2.8 VR II

http://nikonrumors.com/2010/01/12/nikon-70-200mm-f2-8-vrii-thread-issue-normal.aspx

Posted 2 years ago #
Pierre

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kauyeung said:
See if this is your issue. A common complain about the nikon 70 - 200 F2.8 VR II

http://nikonrumors.com/2010/01/12/nikon-70-200mm-f2-8-vrii-thread-issue-normal.aspx

I had read this before buying mine and had expected that they would have fixed it. If flakes stay away from the glass then I would not care that much but I see dust on more then one of the glass inside and some flakes seams a bit big for just dust. The dust has a silver color. One fairly big one moved away by shaking the lense a bit.

Perhaps its part of the routine, check the ISO, speed, WB and shake the flakes off the inner lenses :(

Posted 2 years ago #
NikoDoby

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But you say you see the spots with both lenses so it's just dust that is stuck to the sensor. But really if it bothers you that much then just return the camera and lenses. And no $2000 for a lens isnt a lot when you have over $10 - 15,000 invested in gear

Posted 2 years ago #
Panamon_Creel

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Before wet cleaning attempt to clean your sensor with a blower which might dislodge the loose particles.
As for the dust on your lens elements, was the dust present when the lens was brand spanking new or did it show up over time? I have the feeling that the latter is the case in which case you shouldn't point the finger at Nikon and look more at your lens changing techniques, handling of the lens and the environments you use your equipment in. Even with best care you'll get dust internally to the lens over time because the movement of the internal lens elements during focusing and zooming (where applicable) will cause ambient air and particles it contains being sucked in.

Posted 2 years ago #
jonnyapple

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The size and clarity of the spots should not scale with ISO, except indirectly. What will make a difference is the aperture. Smaller aperture means more defined dust spots on the sensor. The reason for this is that light comes in from more angles with wider apertures, so the spots get smeared out over a larger area, but some light is able to undercut the dust and make it to the photosites below it—the dust casts a circular shadow on the sensor, basically.

Niko's right about the flakes in the lens not really being trouble, especially with a lens that's rarely stopped down, due to some of the same reasoning as in the previous paragraph. Where you might see it is in the bokeh. Individual out-of-focus light sources might show a disk with spots in the same pattern as the flakes in the lens.

I also agree with panamon_creel's suggestion to blow it off. The sensor clean basically just shakes the anti-aliasing filter. If the blowing doesn't work, a wet clean is the only option left.

edit: I guess I shouldn't say that it's the only option left. I haven't wet cleaned my D90 in 8 months of use, but I have wrapped a PEC pad around a flat object (broken plastic knife a la Thom Hogan) and gently(!) wiped it across the sensor. It worked for me, but use at your own risk.

Posted 2 years ago #
Pierre

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NikoDoby said:
But you say you see the spots with both lenses so it's just dust that is stuck to the sensor.

Yes, the spot seem (at least some of them) to be dirt on the sensor, so you are probably right that dust in the lense does not affect the picture, hard to say with so many artifacts showing on a blank piece of sky.

Dont get me wrong, I still like my gear and for me it is still part of the learning curve to know what to expect in term of quality and what are the machine limits, what is normal and what is not. I have friends that got Canon gears and I still like mine better. If it is so easy to get dirt on the sensor, perhaps I am doing something wrong or perhaps I should get another D700 or D90 and never take the lenses off. Maybe I should get used to wet clean the sensor once a week. I was wondering if electronically cleaning the sensor or wet cleaning was detrimental to the sensor.

I am just asking.

Posted 2 years ago #
Pierre

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Panamon_Creel said:
Even with best care you'll get dust internally to the lens over time because the movement of the internal lens elements during focusing and zooming (where applicable) will cause ambient air and particles it contains being sucked in.

I thaught that the 70-200 was completely sealed given that the moving parts are all internal. I did not noticed dust when it was new, but I did not looked at it too closely.

Posted 2 years ago #
jonnyapple

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Wet clean with the right chemicals shouldn't be a problem. Check out Sensor Swabs (you'll want type 3 for the D700) for an easy solution. I think once per week is overkill unless you're in a very dusty environment when you swap lenses. You'll only see this at small apertures.

Posted 2 years ago #
spraynpray

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I am going to respond slighty differently to everybody else because everybody is different:

Did you buy the body and lenses new or used? If new, I would be all over Nikon and send the lot back for them to sort the problems out. If used, I would send the lot back to Nikon for service drawing their attention to the dust or flakes. As the lens dust is a known problem they possibly may not charge you for that.

I don't know about this next point, but is it possible that zooming of the lens is transferring the debris from the lens into the body? If so, it is a problem indeed and will stay a problem until you get the lens cleaned so there is less dust in there.

Posted 2 years ago #
SquamishPhoto

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Dust between lens elements is not a big deal. Do what Jonny said and buy some swabs for your sensor, unless you haven't even tried using a blower yet, in which case that might be all you need. You might have what they call "welded dust". Do you shoot lots of flowers?

Posted 2 years ago #
NikoDoby

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Dust is an inherent problem with any kind of interchangeable lens system. I always had fine dust and small hairs and scratches on my film but I didn't return my camera because of it. Nobody cared about a little dust. Once again THIS IS NOT A PROBLEM. You don't even need to wet clean your sensor because it's not even that bad.

I wet clean my sensor about every six months or so depending on conditions, but heavy use and very frequent lens changing is normal for me. If you want to see what a REAL dirty sensor looks like then read this thread

http://nikonrumors.com/forum/topic.php?id=644

Posted 2 years ago #
adamz

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do a wet clean of your sensor and this will help, dust on the lens is not a problem, unless it's very, very dirty - but even then the picture will become blurry instead of this what I see on Your image

Posted 2 years ago #
shivaswrath

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i've never wet cleaned my sensor. . .but I'm awesome.

Posted 2 years ago #
bmxdad

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If the lens has dust inside get it repaired under warranty, I regular blow out dust from my D300/80 sensor but nothing has stuck onto the sensors yet. And I do change lenses a lot but try to be careful not to change in dusty areas

Pete

Posted 2 years ago #
ShadeofBlue

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You should also set your D700 to do a sensor cleaning upon turning it on or off, my mom had similar problems with dust until she did.

Posted 2 years ago #