Will Nikon make VR versions of shorter, fixed-focal length lenses?

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Will Nikon make VR versions of shorter, fixed-focal length lenses?

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studio460

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I've got the VR bug.

After buying my first VR lens ever, the 80-400mm, just a few weeks ago, I'm hooked. Although my handheld technique is as solid as can be, VR allows me to take pictures that were before, impossible. With VR enabled, I was able to make tack-sharp images, on a monopod, at 400mm, at 1/20th of a second! Now, I've got the 18-55mm VR kit lens, and I'm taking sharper 18mm wide-angle shots too. Here's what I'm hoping for:

1. AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.2 VR.
2. AF-S Nikkor 85mm f/1.4 VR.
3. AF-S DC-Nikkor 105mm f/2.0 VR.

My new 18-55mm VR, at 50mm, is just far too slow for what I normally use a 50mm for. What are the chances of Nikon developing a fast 50mm VR fixed-lens someday? A fast 50-VR sure would come in handy for a lot of things.

And, my most-hoped for, most-anticipated Nikon lens, a new AF-S 85mm f/1.4 VR, long rumored to be in Nikon's 2010 plans, is squarely in my lens-purchasing sights. This would replace my aging, banged-up, non-D, AF 85mm f/1.8. Of the three, my guess would be that the 105mm DC lens would be the least-likely to receive the VR treatment. But, will Nikon make an in-body stabilized camera before they make shorter, fixed-focal length, VR lenses? What does everyone think?

Posted 2 years ago #
PB PM

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I think it is very unlikely that you'll see Nikon putting VR into shorter prime lenses (50mm or less). The 85mm F1.4G would likely have VR, as would a 105mm F2, if they even bother updating it.

Posted 2 years ago #
jonnyapple

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Just jump on the 24-70 VR wait list with me, studio. It's my dream lens.

Posted 2 years ago #
studio460

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jonnyapple said:
Just jump on the 24-70 VR wait list with me, studio. It's my dream lens.

Hey! But, I'm still only a DX-shooter! Plus, I have a real need for speed on a 50mm!

Posted 2 years ago #
heartyfisher

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For the shorter end.. the only wide aperture option with VR are the third party ones.. Tamron 17-50 F2.8 VC and sigma 17-70 F2.8-F4.0 OS both are quite well regarded.

Posted 2 years ago #
NSXType-R

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Yeah, why does the 24mm 1.4 have VR and the 50mm 1.4 not? That is strange no?

Posted 2 years ago #
RobertD

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I may have some disagree with me, but sharpness with any lens, VR or not, no matter what the shutter speed, is a product of proper shutter release and breath control.
Achieving sharp photographs under adverse conditions is identical to target shooting. Proper trigger release is everything. You can't get sharp photographs by jabbing the release button and you can't place a proper shot by jerking the trigger.
Another component of equal importance to be considered is breath control. As in shooting...take a deep breath, let half of it out, hold it then release the shutter/trigger. That technique has worked for me 40 some odd years now. JMHO

Posted 2 years ago #
clillja

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NSXType-R said:
Yeah, why does the 24mm 1.4 have VR and the 50mm 1.4 not? That is strange no?

Nope. No VR on the 24. (Sorry, perhaps you were joking?) Probably a good thing - the new 24 would over $3k with VR...

As far as I know, the fastest VR (in) lenses are the Canon and Nikon 200/2s... I'm a little skeptical the new 85/1.4 will have VR - it will be quite a breakthrough if it does.

VR is great for what it is, but it doesn't change your life or the laws of physics. Camera on tripod = VR off. Shutter speed over 1/500 = VR off. Macro over ~1:3 = VR off. Using internal flash = VR off. That's why there's a switch...

My response to the OP would be no, not unless they make slower primes. I think all new short primes will be F1.4 w/ no VR. Unless Canon does it, then of course Nikon will.

Posted 2 years ago #
NSXType-R

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clillja said:
Nope. No VR on the 24. (Sorry, perhaps you were joking?) Probably a good thing - the new 24 would over $3k with VR...

As far as I know, the fastest VR (in) lenses are the Canon and Nikon 200/2s... I'm a little skeptical the new 85/1.4 will have VR - it will be quite a breakthrough if it does.

VR is great for what it is, but it doesn't change your life or the laws of physics. Camera on tripod = VR off. Shutter speed over 1/500 = VR off. Macro over ~1:3 = VR off. Using internal flash = VR off. That's why there's a switch...

My response to the OP would be no, not unless they make slower primes. I think all new short primes will be F1.4 w/ no VR. Unless Canon does it, then of course Nikon will.

You're right, it doesn't. I thought it did. My mistake.

With flash, I don't think you even need VR at all- isn't that one of the advantages of using flash, higher shutter speeds?

It's funny, I haven't heard anything about not using VR at high shutter speeds up until recently, like 3 months or so ago.

Posted 2 years ago #
studio460

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If they can put VR in a $169 kit lens, they can sure put in a $XXX dollar 50mm f/1.2G lens. I really like that fat barrel to hold onto as well. The addition of VR allows you to make a TON of shots, that you couldn't, otherwise, without it. If they put in their normal and short telephotos, that would be a dream.

RobertD said:
I may have some disagree with me, but sharpness with any lens, VR or not, no matter what the shutter speed, is a product of proper shutter release and breath control.
Achieving sharp photographs under adverse conditions is identical to target shooting. Proper trigger release is everything. You can't get sharp photographs by jabbing the release button and you can't place a proper shot by jerking the trigger.
Another component of equal importance to be considered is breath control. As in shooting...take a deep breath, let half of it out, hold it then release the shutter/trigger. That technique has worked for me 40 some odd years now. JMHO

I don't diagree with you, but it's just that the point is, with the addition of VR, images can be made which would be impossible with out it. And, tripods are not always appropriate or convenient for every situation. Many of my shots are "stolen," and it would be either dangerous or disallowed if a tripod were to be used. Also, many venues have a "no tripod" policy (e.g., The Getty Museum, the MTA subway, etc.), but cameras, alone are "okay." In other words, yes, you can take pictures, but they don't want you to take "professional" pictures with a tripod, or cause any liability issues with other pedestrian traffic.

When I first got my 80-400mm VR, I almost fell of my chair when I snapped an image at 1/20th of a second at 400mm, and it was tack-sharp. No amount of breath control would service a shot under those conditions.

Posted 2 years ago #
studio460

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NSXType-R said:
With flash, I don't think you even need VR at all- isn't that one of the advantages of using flash, higher shutter speeds?

Well true, but then all the beauty of available-light photography would be lost, which is a lot of what I shoot.

Posted 2 years ago #
studio460

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clillja said:
My response to the OP would be no, not unless they make slower primes. I think all new short primes will be F1.4 w/ no VR. Unless Canon does it, then of course Nikon will.

Is there something inherent in large maximum-aperture lenses that make it more difficult to employ VR?

Posted 2 years ago #
NSXType-R

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studio460 said:
Well true, but then all the beauty of available-light photography would be lost, which is a lot of what I shoot.

If it's diffuse enough, sometimes you can barely tell.

Posted 2 years ago #
kanuck

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I remember hearing that Nikon was supposed to start competing with Canon's F4 image stabilization line with its own F4 VR products. I believe we have started seeing this with the spectacular 16-35 VR F4 lens. I have never understood why Nikon made the 105mm with VR because its a macro lens shot generally on tripod in manual focus mode for best results anyways right? Who needs the VR? I would love the 105mm D, but I went cheaper and just got the 105mm Ais manual.

The rumored 35mm prime that I keep hearing about may have VR, but the Ais 1.4 version is spectacular if you can find one. The new 85mm should have VR for sure I think. VR should generally be just for zooms, but the 85, 105, 135, 180, and big 200,300 are great for portraits so VR makes sense there obviously. Good post studio460 :)

Posted 2 years ago #
studio460

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kanuck said:
The rumored 35mm prime that I keep hearing about may have VR, but the Ais 1.4 version is spectacular if you can find one. The new 85mm should have VR for sure I think. VR should generally be just for zooms, but the 85, 105, 135, 180, and big 200,300 are great for portraits so VR makes sense there obviously. Good post studio460 :)

Thanks, kanuck--yes, I'm really hoping for that AF-S 85mm f/1.4G VR, but I what really want is the 105mm DC, which, unfortunately, probably won't be VR-ized anytime soon.

At least for me, I know that I would greatly benefit if every one of my lenses had VR. My ultra-wides, my normal, and all of my short telephotos could be exploited to their fullest with this extended capability. Although I just love my new Tokina ultra-wide angle, I would've loved if it also had image stabilization--it would just make certain shooting situations a whole helluva lot easier--here's a few examples:

Here I am, just an hour ago, shooting available-light with my new, non-VR Tokina, hanging onto my monopod for dear life, within inches of this speeding train. Exposing at a pokey 1/10th of a second (to capture some motion blur and depth-of-field), I was sitting on the ground Indian-style, with the monopod clutched between my ankles. I would have liked to have exposed for even longer, but nearby MTA police would have shooed me away, had I whipped out a tripod (below):

Another available-light, monopod shot at 1/10th of a second (below):

And last, here I am hanging off the wall, with my monopod wedged between the top of the handrail and the wall (below):

Posted 2 years ago #
heartyfisher

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studio460 said:
Is there something inherent in large maximum-aperture lenses that make it more difficult to employ VR?

I think there may be ... I am just guessing but I think
1) the VR elements need to be larger so the vr engines need to move more glass.
2) The glass may have more degradation in image quality due to the larger vr lenses that move ie more of the edges are used instead of the centre of the VR elements.
3) The Large aperture lenses already have lots of Aspherical elements that help correct for coma its probably issues with this kinds of aberation to be corrected that is holding back the dev a bit.
4) And if you have a large aperture lens you expect it to have supurb IQ and the degradation is probably not acceptable to nikon.

Posted 2 years ago #
studio460

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heartyfisher said:
For the shorter end.. the only wide aperture option with VR are the third party ones.. Tamron 17-50 F2.8 VC and sigma 17-70 F2.8-F4.0 OS both are quite well regarded.

Yeah, I was really torn between the totally cheap, Nikkor 18-55mm VR, and the totally expensive, Nikkor 16-85mm VR. I figured, I've got the Tokina 11-16mm UWA, so I'd only be using either Nikkor rather sparingly. But, if the Nikkor 16-85mm VR were less expensive, I would have totally gotten that instead. Also, even if I had the Nikkor 16-85mm VR, it's so slow between 50mm-85mm (where I want shallow depth-of-field more often anyway), that I would never really shoot it past its maximum wide angle. That lens would be slammed to its 16mm focal length, pretty much 100% of the time.

Posted 2 years ago #
ChrisLange

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VR is not really a factor at shorter focal lengths to matter enough...

If you have a big enough camera (D90/300(s)/700 with grip, or a D3 type body), you can jam the camera into your shoulder/collarbone, wrap your left arm under the lens and grasp your shooting hand for extra stability, bunch up, inhale slowly, shoot. I've handheld @ 1/4 and 1/2 a second and gotten very respectable results given the circumstances. Having a heavier camera helps to nullify extraneous hand motion as well, which is why it's much easier to hold a Hasselblad or other MF SLR at slower speeds than featherweight D60.

Posted 2 years ago #
shivaswrath

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i love VR, I just don't know if Nikon will put it in fast glass below 70mm.

yes, makes sense for the 16-85/18-55/18-105/18-200 etc., but I'll be surprised if they feel photographers NEED it below 70mm as aggressively as we feel we do.

The sigma and tamron both now offer a 17-50 OS/VC option - maybe they'll wait to see how they fare for Nikon to proceed from a sales point?

Although I heard that the VC 17-50 isn't as sharp as the original - maybe the stabilization lens element is causing issues?

Posted 2 years ago #
kanuck

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Yes VR is wonderful but I have a terrible habbit of forgetting to turn it off when my camera is mounted on a tripod. I still shoot mostly off a tripod and I'll bring it with me no matter where I go or what shooting I do. Love that carbon fiber! By the way, notice how Nikon's newest lens release the 24mm 1.4 didn't have VR added? This probably answers this topics original question, although I'm sure an 85mm VR prime will come out before this year is over. I'm actually surprised it hasn't come out already.

Posted 2 years ago #
NSXType-R

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Studio460- those don't look like subways. Are those PATH trains?

Is the 50mm 1.4 not fast enough for you, or are you using an older Nikon body? Is that why you want the VR? Just push the ISO a bit. I've hand held with the 35mm 1.8 at 1/20th of a second with very good results. It's a hit and miss with anything really slower than that though.

Posted 2 years ago #
kanuck

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Your still supposed to gain as much as 4 stops with VR according to Nikon if you can believe that information. I think its only more like 2 (really poor lighting), but with the wonders of ISO these days, I'm thinking the D3S in particular, VR almost seems like an afterthought.

Posted 2 years ago #
studio460

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NSXType-R said:
Studio460- those don't look like subways. Are those PATH trains?

Those were taken at the Aviation Blvd., above-ground stop of the Los Angeles "Metro," known here as the "MTA" (Metropolitan Transit Authority). MTA trains here are a combination of above- and below-ground, light-rail trains. The downtown station is completely underground, and is really beautiful. I shot a short film there once, and plan to take a model there to shoot one of my portfolio pieces soon.

NSXType-R said:
Is the 50mm 1.4 not fast enough for you, or are you using an older Nikon body? Is that why you want the VR? Just push the ISO a bit. I've hand held with the 35mm 1.8 at 1/20th of a second with very good results. It's a hit and miss with anything really slower than that though.

All of the shots posted above were taken with a non-VR, Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8 lens, but each shot was stopped-down between f/5.6-f/8 for greater depth-of-field. I wanted to go to f/11, but would have needed a tripod for that, and those aren't allowed on the platform.

For my 50mm, I'm using an older 'D' AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4 with a Nikon D90 body. The lens is fast enough, but I just don't like shooting above ISO 800 on this body. While my handheld technique is fairly polished, given a choice, I would rather have VR than not, regardless of focal length. I would actually absolutely love it if Nikon were to introduce an AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.4 or f/1.2 with VR someday. Although I still take a monopod everywhere I shoot, I really do enjoy the "freedom" VR facilitates.

Posted 2 years ago #
kyoshinikon

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A 50mm 1.2 VR ? The motor would need to be flat!

Posted 2 years ago #
NSXType-R

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studio460 said:
Those were taken at the Aviation Blvd., above-ground stop of the Los Angeles "Metro," known here as the "MTA" (Metropolitan Transit Authority). MTA trains here are a combination of above- and below-ground, light-rail trains. The downtown station is completely underground, and is really beautiful. I shot a short film there once, and plan to take a model there to shoot one of my portfolio pieces soon.

All of the shots posted above were taken with a non-VR, Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8 lens, but each shot was stopped-down between f/5.6-f/8 for greater depth-of-field. I wanted to go to f/11, but would have needed a tripod for that, and those aren't allowed on the platform.

For my 50mm, I'm using an older 'D' AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4 with a Nikon D90 body. The lens is fast enough, but I just don't like shooting above ISO 800 on this body. While my handheld technique is fairly polished, given a choice, I would rather have VR than not, regardless of focal length. I would actually absolutely love it if Nikon were to introduce an AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.4 or f/1.2 with VR someday. Although I still take a monopod everywhere I shoot, I really do enjoy the "freedom" VR facilitates.

Haha, I thought MTA as in NYC MTA.

Understandable, especially with the wide angle lenses. You really need to stop down, and there's nothing you can do about that except ask for VR or better ISO performance.

I still want Nikon to make a 24 or 18mm f/1.8 that's priced the same as the 35mm. I need something way wider. I could make do without VR, I'm used to that anyway.

Posted 2 years ago #