Hi.. providing the image to start with is sharp & low noise etc.. based on the megapixels of a D300s… What’s the largest I could make a wall print without it looking too pixelated ??
How Big ??
(30 posts) (13 voices)-
I have done a few prints at 20"x30" (76x51cm) with no fancy resampling and I can't see any pixellation.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Posted 2 years ago #
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I would think that you would just choose a DPI, then plug that into Photoshop and see what it calculates as its maximum print size. The determination of DPI would be defined by viewing distance. I know, not exactly what you asked, but it's a key point. I guess I would start with 300 DPI. I know that large billboards are deceptively "sharp," even though their actual DPIs are very low. But, due to the large viewing distance, its low-DPI goes unnoticed. There's probably a formula online somewhere which provides a basic calculation for proper DPI, given a specific viewing distance.
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Nobby, you can get good results by resampling your image in Photoshop and increase the size in 10% increments, somehow by doing it this way it retains better detail than if you just increased the size in one go. It might be worth it to do a few test prints, you only need to print a section of the whole print on say an A4 sheet. Any interpolation will have a small impact on the quality of the print, but our brains will have trouble discerning it. Ultimate print size depends on the distance you want to view it from as has already been mentioned here by others.
Thom Hogan has an article about it called "How big can I print" which will help you, here: http://www.bythom.com/printsizes.htm
The lowest dpi that is acceptable would be around 240 but 300 is more desirable. Thom suggest 288 and although it seems a weird figure if you follow his reasoning it makes sense.Rich.
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I think two factors are how far away are you reasonably expecting it to be viewed from and the subject matter. The conservative answer would be 200 dpi and therefore 14" x 20 ". At that dpi even a foot away you'd be hard pressed to see pixelation. But at a reasonably distance of 3 feet then even 40" x 60" would look good.
If the subject had sharp lines as in architecture or detail of say fabric then you'd want a higher res. But a portrait may be more forgiving of resolution.
My two cents.
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I blew a picture up from my D5000 to a 20x30 and it looks great. I see no pixelation in it even very close to it.
Posted 2 years ago # -
My rule of thumb is that I do not go lower than 180dpi on what I am printing.
Also, just a quick note about the above youtube video where they compare a D700 and a F5, Choice of cameras was good but the F5 did not get a fair comparison. One advantage a film camera has is the choice of film and how it is processed. I use to have a formula using Kodak Tech Pan (25 ISO film) with a developer that was insanely great for enlarging.
I am still waiting for my D700 with at least a 16MP sensor in it.
Mark
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I agree on the F5 not getting a fair comparison If they scanned and printed it better it would have compared better. As to the question I sell prints form a D90 at 20x30 with no problem. If I go to 40x60 On 1's genuine fractals works great at upping quality...
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monty11 said:
kyoshinikon, 20x30cm isn't really that big for a D90, you should be able to go quite a bit larger than that without the interference of fancy interpolation software.Just for comparison sakes - I regularly print 20x30cm from my D50 (6.2 MP). The smallest (cropped) MP I've printed at that size is around 3.5MP and I've been very happy with the results (no pixilation). Count me in as one of the "I don't need more megapixels" from another thread...
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Maximum print sizes for Nikon D3s and Nikon D3x?
So, now I'm actually considering either a D3s or a D3x. The D3s' impressive low-light capability would certainly be useful in the types of photography I'm often drawn to. However, I do want to eventually print at very large print sizes (up to 24" x 36" or larger), so the D3x, with its higher pixel-count, may also be a consideration.
I don't have a Photoshop license for my new iMac yet, so I can't use that to figure this out. When reading over the file size requirements for the Durst Lambda laser-photo printer I'm planning to print to, they recommend either a 200-dpi or 400-dpi file resolution (not 300 dpi--that dpi is recommended for Iris and Lightjet only). However, "ppi" is another variable which relates directly to print size that needs to be considered when determining your maximum print size. Since commercial links aren't allowed here, I've included an excerpt from the service bureau's FAQ page:
"What is the difference between DPI and PPI?
"Most people heard the term DPI. In most cases the term is used in the wrong context to express the number of pixels in a photo, the number of dots in a print or the maximum dots per inch a printer can output. A relatively new term PPI was introduced in order to resolve this wrong usage of the term DPI. In this article we will try to explain in simple words what is DPI and what is PPI and should each be used.
"PPI: stands for "pixels per inch." PPI describes the number of pixels per inch in a photo. PPI is a function of the number of pixels the camera’s sensor supports (also known as megapixels) and the size of the photo. To calculate a photo’s PPI simply multiply the page length by its width in inches. The result is the number of square inches on the page. Now divide the number of pixels the sensor supports by the number of square inches. The result is the number of pixels per square inch. All that is left to do is to find the square root of this number. Following is a table that shows the PPI for various page sizes for a 5 megapixel camera.
page size 4X6 - 456 PPI
page size 5X7 - 377 PPI
page size 8X10 - 250 PPI
page size 11X14 - 180 PPI
page size 16X20 - 125 PPI
page size 20X30 - 91 PPI"DPI: stands for "dots per inch." DPI is really a physical characteristic of a printer. Every printer prints dots that when put next to each other comprise a photo. Each dot has a physical size. DPI is also known as the maximum resolution that a printer is capable of. Low-end printers have lower DPI while high-end printers have higher DPI. DPI is defined as the number of dots a printer can print per inch. For example if a printer supports 1200 DPI it means that the printer can print 1200 dots per inch (on both X or Y axis). When printing it is important to make sure that the DPI is higher or equal to the PPI. If the DPI is lower than the PPI the printer will not be able to fully display the high resolution of the photo. When printing a photo that has a lower PPI than DPI the printer will use multiple dots to represent one pixel. As opposed to PPI, DPI is not relative to the page size. DPI is a fixed number for a given printer."
--excerpt from service bureau website.
So, after that long-winded excerpt, based on each body's megapixel count, my question is . . .
What would be the maximum recommended print sizes, for both the Nikon D3s' and D3x' sensors, at each of the two recommended dpi values, 200 dpi and 400 dpi, for the Durst Lambda printer?
1. D3s @ 200 dpi:
2. D3s @ 400 dpi:
3. D3x @ 200 dpi:
4. D3x @ 400 dpi:Posted 2 years ago # -
Anonymous
Unregistered
Posts: 51offline1. D3s @ 200 dpi: 21" x 14"
2. D3s @ 400 dpi: 10.6" x 7.1"
3. D3x @ 200 dpi: 30" x 20"
4. Dx3 @ 400 dpi: 15" x 10"Posted 2 years ago # -
What's a Dx3? Did Nikon announce a new camera while I was asleep?
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LensWork said:
1. D3s @ 200 dpi: 21" x 14"
2. D3s @ 400 dpi: 10.6" x 7.1"
3. D3x @ 200 dpi: 30" x 20"
4. D3x @ 400 dpi: 15" x 10"That was fast! Thanks! Oh, by the way, were you able to figure out the resulting 'ppi' at those print sizes?
NikoDoby said:
What's a Dx3? Did Nikon announce a new camera while I was asleep?Ooops!
Posted 2 years ago # -
He gave you the ppi numbers, studio. Like your post said, dpi is a characteristic of the printer itself.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Anonymous
Unregistered
Posts: 51offlineIf you look up the tech specs for the cameras, you will find that the image size (pixels) for the:
D3S = 4,256 x 2,832
D3X = 6,048 x 4,032Simply divide the image size by the desired print resolution to get the max print size.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Have you printed a good 12 MP shot at one of these sizes, studio? You might be surprised at how good even 150 ppi looks—that's roughly 30"x20" for 12 MP.
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jonnyapple said:
He gave you the ppi numbers, studio. Like your post said, dpi is a characteristic of the printer itself.I guess the question I really meant to really ask, was: "What would be the minimum 'ppi' that would be 'acceptable' at a viewing distance of 'x' inches." I wonder if there's some sort of a rule-of-thumb formula for this? For gallery viewing, I would expect x = 24-36 inches.
jonnyapple said:
Have you printed a good 12 MP shot at one of these sizes, studio? You might be surprised at how good even 150 ppi looks—that's roughly 30"x20" for 12 MP.Actually, no! I haven't printed a single image from my D90 yet. I'm quite excited to see how these Lambda prints will turn out. Guess I'm due for a round of print tests at various ppi/viewing distances.
LensWork said:
If you look up the tech specs for the cameras, you will find that the image size (pixels) for the:D3S = 4,256 x 2,832
D3X = 6,048 x 4,032Simply divide the image size by the desired print resolution to get the max print size.
Oh. Thanks again, LensWork!
Posted 2 years ago # -
Anonymous
Unregistered
Posts: 51offlineFrom a Yahoo Digital Workflow Group:
Viewing Distance (inches) Minimum Resolution ppi
6" 1145
10" 687
24" 286
36" 191
60" 115
120" 57
600" 11The formula is ppi = 1/((distance x 0.000291) / 2)
This is for very high contrast at optimal lighting - not your print of a photo hanging on the wall. These values could easily be halved for 'average' or poor viewing conditions.
So for a viewing distance of 24"-36", the recommended PPI is ~200-300, or ~100-150 under average to poor lighting conditions.
There is also a formula for minimum recommended viewing distance based upon image size. Essentially, the larger the image, the further away it should be viewed from. This has little to do with PPI, but rather the eye's, and the brain's ability to process the image viewed in its entirety. A good rule-of-thumb is that the minimum viewing distance should be approximately 1 1/2 times the diagonal measurement of the image.
So, if we take a 13" x 19" print, the diagonal measurement is ~23". So the recommended viewing distance would be about 35". Using the PPI formula above, the minimum resolution should be about 200 PPI.
If we combine all of these together, a 13x19 print viewed at 3 feet at a resolution of 200 PPI, then we would need at least a 10 megapixel camera to produce such an image.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Awesome post, LensWork! Thank you for researching/writing all of that! My sincerest thanks!
Posted 2 years ago # -
Seriously, great work, LensWork. Have I mentioned lately that I love this forum? I've never been anywhere that people answer my questions so quickly—and they can be about basically anything!
Posted 2 years ago # -
Anonymous
Unregistered
Posts: 51offlinestudio460 & jonnyapple,
Thank you for your kind words.
I would make one more point about PPI and DPI: When you size your image for printing, be sure that the PPI of the image is a factor of the printer's DPI; do not simply crop the image to the desired aspect ratio. That is, in the case of the Durst Lambda, make sure that your final image file is at 200 or 400 PPI for the final print size, not say 237.2 PPI or 513.8 PPI. Failure to do so may result in the print having artifacts or moire`.
But you say "my Epson printer has a DPI of 2880x1440, do I need to size my image at this resolution". No. As long as your image is a factor of the printer's DPI (in this case PPI's of 144, 288, 360, etc.) the printer will interpolate the data for the final print. It is when the PPI is not a factor of the printer's DPI output that issues may arise.
Then there are the issues of image mode (RGB, CMYK), color space, ICC profiles, a properly calibrated monitor, etc. that all go into making an exceptional print, and one that looks like it did on your monitor at home before you uploaded to A&I for printing, but that is a whole 'nother kettle of fish.
Posted 2 years ago #
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