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Nikon Rumors Forum » Nikon Lenses

Should I Buy The Kit With A Lens Or Body Only?

(57 posts) (17 voices)
  • Started 2 years ago by NikoDoby
  • Latest reply from jonnyapple
  • Related Topics:
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    3. D5100+Lenses or D7000 Body only?
    4. Anybody experience with Tokina lense caps?

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  • Kit lens versus Body Only
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  1. NikoDoby

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    Apparently there are a lot of kit lens "haters" around here. This came up in another thread but I think this topic merits it's own thread so here you go.

    I personally think Nikon's kit lenses offer very good quality. I still have my D70's kit lens, the 18-70mm, and it has served me well over the years. I think buying a new camera in a kit is a better deal than just the body only. If you buy the body and then the same lens separately you are often paying more than you would with a kit. Plus you can sometimes just sell the kit lens and actually make a profit.

    The only time I don't buy a kit is when I already have the same lens or similar focal length or I have it as a faster lens.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  2. tcole1983

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    I wouldn't have got the 18-55 kit lens, but it was basically free with the kit. It came out to buying the body, camera bag and memory card and getting the lens free. I kept it for a backup and it really isn't a bad lens.

    I guess it depends on the situation and budget. If you have enough money and can spend it on a fast lens and there is a good deal on just a body then get the body. I planned all along to stay away from the kit lenses (little did I know the 18-200 was basically a kit lens). Had I known a little more I might have saved a little while longer and got a faster lens, but I wouldn't have the same range of coverage without 2 lenses and lots of $$$$.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  3. adamz

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    totally agree with You Niko, would just add one thing. if You are new to photography go for the kit lens. if You have some lenses already, check the price of body+kit lens vs body only, also check the price for lens (on ebay, craigs or any other non-commercial place) if the price difference will make You get a buck or two than go for the body+lens option if not just buy the body

    Posted 2 years ago #
  4. towen7

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    I recommend getting a 4.0-5.6 kit lens 90% of the time. But most of the people I talk to are first-time buyers. For them I believe that they are better off shooting than waiting to save more cash. Like I said in the other thread... I have seen some truly spectacular images from "junk" equipment. Funny thing... the pro photographers that I know are the least snobbish about equipment. The only ones that seem to care what are the posers.

    For those who already own glass the advice usually requires a just little bit of math. If you think you can sell the kit lens and be out of pocket less than the price of a body-only. Than do so. If that option puts any strain on the budget than don't.

    Another thing to consider is how many cameras are in the household. There are 2 DSLRs in mine so even though I didn't need/want the 70-300 VR "kit" lens that was available for my D90 it was worth the asking price to hand-it down to the other camera owner in the family, or to keep in the arsenal in case of emergency.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  5. poster

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    adamz said:
    totally agree with You Niko, would just add one thing. if You are new to photography go for the kit lens. if You have some lenses already, check the price of body+kit lens vs body only, also check the price for lens (on ebay, craigs or any other non-commercial place) if the price difference will make You get a buck or two than go for the body+lens option if not just buy the body

    Indeed.

    Newbies should get the kit lens.

    More advanced photogs, you are smart enough to decide it by yourself.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  6. Mark

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    I think if the kit lens looks good and you need a lens then get it. I like you got a D70 with the 18-70mm and was impressed with it enough that when I bought my D200, I also got it with the 18-70mm as a kit offered from Nikon.

    NikoDoby said:
    Apparently there are a lot of kit lens "haters" around here. This came up in another thread but I think this topic merits it's own thread so here you go.

    I personally think Nikon's kit lenses offer very good quality. I still have my D70's kit lens, the 18-70mm, and it has served me well over the years. I think buying a new camera in a kit is a better deal than just the body only. If you buy the body and then the same lens separately you are often paying more than you would with a kit. Plus you can sometimes just sell the kit lens and actually make a profit.

    The only time I don't buy a kit is when I already have the same lens or similar focal length or I have it as a faster lens.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  7. NSXType-R

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    I'm still with my kit lens,the 18-135, although I got the 35mm 1.8 about a year ago now.

    I got the 18-135 because I specifically didn't want the 18-55, but it is a good lens for dirt cheap.

    What really bugs me is that it's not truly AF-S in the sense that there's no instant manual override of focus, to my knowledge at least. I don't like that. Other than that, it has no real glaring faults.

    Edit- on a side note, I hate it's weird that some entry level cameras really don't come body only. The D3000 to my knowledge doesn't come body only. I don't want another D3000, but what happens if someone does and already has an 18-55?

    Edit again- also, Canon's kit lens' build quality is almost the same as Nikon's, so there really can't be any complaints.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  8. adamz

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    NSX - d3000 comes as a body only, at least in my place. as for what happens if someone already has 18-55 - sell it, there's plenty of buyers for it (if You set a right price).

    Posted 2 years ago #
  9. NikoDoby

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    yeah I've seen the D3000 as body only. Most retailers don't carry it though because they don't sell as well as the kit. The D3000 is going to be primarily purchased by people who are coming up from point & shoots or are totally new to photography and they need the lens anyway.

    The trouble with selling the 18-55 afterwards is that there are soooo many of them on the used market. They are virtually worth nothing. I've seen some sell for as little as $60 dollars!

    One more thing about new camera model bodies is that they are almost always announced with a new lens or an updated version of an older lens. So the kit package is often worth it even if you have a similar lens.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  10. spraynpray

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    I got my D5000 as a red-hot deal (£375) body only last December and went for the 18-105 and 70-300 VR's cheaply off Ebay because they share filters and give wide coverage. I will get a 35mm 1.8 G and/or maybe a 50mm 1.8 too, then I'm set - unless I win the lottery (note to self - start doing the lottery).

    Posted 2 years ago #
  11. NSXType-R

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    adamz said:
    NSX - d3000 comes as a body only, at least in my place. as for what happens if someone already has 18-55 - sell it, there's plenty of buyers for it (if You set a right price).

    NikoDoby said:
    yeah I've seen the D3000 as body only. Most retailers don't carry it though because they don't sell as well as the kit. The D3000 is going to be primarily purchased by people who are coming up from point & shoots or are totally new to photography and they need the lens anyway.

    The trouble with selling the 18-55 afterwards is that there are soooo many of them on the used market. They are virtually worth nothing. I've seen some sell for as little as $60 dollars!

    One more thing about new camera model bodies is that they are almost always announced with a new lens or an updated version of an older lens. So the kit package is often worth it even if you have a similar lens.

    I haven't really noticed, but that's great- no repeats if you want to buy the kit.

    I wouldn't mind picking up a 55-200 for cheap actually, although if I were to do that, I might as well save up for a 70-300.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  12. studio460

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    I think NikoDoby, at least in part, may have been referring to me. Thanks for starting this thread . . .

    I also bought a D70 with the 18-70mm "kit" lens, only because it was so darned cheap--but I NEVER use it. Now, with my D90, my fixed-focal length, AF Nikkor 18mm f/2.8D does 100% of the wide work. My 50mm f/1.4 or 85mm f/1.8 does all the "regular" stuff, and my 80-400mm VR does all the "far stuff." I also have an 80-200mm f/2.8 (non-VR), but it's too heavy, so I never take it anywhere. In addition to those, I have a pile of other Nikkors, but the ones mentioned above are those I use the most. Next on my list: AF DC-Nikkor 105mm f/2.0D.

    My main issue with kit lenses, isn't that they aren't "good," they're just too slow to do anything "fun." Beginners are often sold kit lens packages, and for perhaps for years to come (because, since they have both a short zoom and a long zoom, they think, "they're covered"), they'll never know the beauty of an available-light shot, or some really cool-looking, night-exterior, street-scene shot. They'll just shoot everything in focus, everything during the daytime, or shoot with their on-camera flash. Those same images would have been equally as well-served with a decent point-and shoot.

    Beginners are often so obsessed with megapixel counts, and countless other, near-meaningless, micro-technical issues, that they often overlook investing any time or effort into learning any of the basic photographic principles and techniques. When the 35mm SLR was all we had, we were sold the 50mm f/1.4 or f/1.8 as the standard "kit" lens. People got a pretty speedy lens that allowed them to shoot at night, in available-light, and also experiment with shallow-focus technique. Now, beginners are met at the sales counter with a barrage of exotic-sounding technology, "AFS," "VR II," etc., none of which will make that tiny-irised, f/5.6 kit lens any faster.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  13. adamz

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    studio460 - paraphrasing Your words a little bit: You would like to be able to drive 120mph with a car that goes only 75mph, that's not the way. kit lenses are not build for everybody, if You are beginner than or a recent P&S convert than they will work for You perfectly, if You want to use available light in Your dark shots, then well... pay for the lens and don't expect that sth You get for pennies will behave the same way as sth You need to pay big bucks.
    as for the second part of Your post, sure back in time 50/1.8 was a kit lens, but also at that time iso 400 was high, and You need to have very steady hand to shot at iso 400 even with 50/1.8 and get decent results

    Posted 2 years ago #
  14. studio460

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    adamz:

    I don't get your analogy or your argument. A brand-new AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D is only $125. People pushed film all the time "back then" to high ISOs. If you're a beginner, coming from a point-and-shoot, a kit lens will limit you to shooting exactly the same kinds of pictures as the point-and-shoot: no shallow-focus photography, no available-light shots, no night shots without a tripod. What's the point in that?

    My point is, instead of beginners aiming to get an entire focal-length range of "coverage," regardless of speed, I'm arguing that they don't even know what they're giving up, and they won't ever be able to engage in other types of photography which a faster lens makes possible. I'm not saying they should buy a $2,000, f/2.8 zoom instead--I'm saying that they would benefit from being better informed about their fixed-focal length options, and what those options can do for them creatively. A new 50mm Nikkor f/1.8 is a steal at only $125, and while other fast, fixed-focal length Nikkor lenses, such as the 20mm f/2.8 and 85mm f/1.8, may seem a bit pricey to a beginner, they're pretty fast lenses for the money.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  15. Anaxagoras

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    studio460 said:
    coming from a point-and-shoot, a kit lens will limit you to shooting exactly the same kinds of pictures as the point-and-shoot

    Good point, but a dSLR provides the foundation to expand further as and when you're ready. Buying the camera with, say, a 50mm Nikkor f/1.8 will open new avenues of photography, but is likely lead to huge disappointment since it will be far less adaptable than the P&S.

    [Off-topic - thanks for pointing out the price of the 50mm Nikkor f/1.8; I hadn't realised they were so cheap]

    poster said:Newbies should get the kit lens.

    More advanced photogs, you are smart enough to decide it by yourself.

    Totally agree. Hits the nail right on the head.

    If you need to ask the question 'Should I Buy The Kit With A Lens Or Body Only?" then you need the kit lens. Simple.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  16. adamz

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    studio460 - if a recent P&S convert is spending $500 on body+kit, than I doubt he/she will want to spend another $$$ and for $125 You could actually get additional P&S. No to mention that 50mm on DX is boring, but that's just my own perception (35mm is much nicer though :)

    Posted 2 years ago #
  17. Rusty1963

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    After many years of using a Sony camcorder to take still pictures, I purchased my D40x with two kit lenses on a special. I got the 18-55 and also the 55-200. Whilst I don't claim to know a lot about photography, the more I learn - the more I realise I don't know, I have learned an awful lot from using them.

    Imho, there is more to learn when shooting with a DSLR as opposed to P&S. The kit lenses for starters are not a bad way to learn the ropes.

    I recently bought a D90 with the 18-105 kit lens and I think it's a fabulous "walk about lens."

    The D40x with the 18-55 is (still!) a very good walk about camera, light and easy to use. What happened to "it's the photographer, not the gear."

    I say, for a newcomer, kit lenses - YES!

    If you are already a pro, then sure, don't look at the kit lenses. But don't be snobbish and deny the newcomer a good entry level lens for very little money, that is, in essence, what a kit lens is.

    BTW, shallow focus photography is possible with kit lenses, if you are graduating from P&S. It's all relative.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  18. PB PM

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    adamz said:
    studio460 - if a recent P&S convert is spending $500 on body+kit, than I doubt he/she will want to spend another $$$ and for $125 You could actually get additional P&S. No to mention that 50mm on DX is boring, but that's just my own perception (35mm is much nicer though :)

    I'll have to disagree, I love shooting with the 50mm F1.8, you just have to move a little. Granted that it isn't good for landscapes or close up photography, but it is a great lens for portraits and many other purposes. That being said, for a beginner a kit lens is more than enough. Kit lenses are still better at getting bokeh than a point and shoot and if you think otherwise you haven't used a kit lens enough. I have a friend who shoots only with a 18-55mm kit lens and she has shot a few weddings, some of her shots are better than the pro shooters I've seen in this area and they have high end gear.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  19. studio460

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    adamz, Rusty, PB PM:

    Okay, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree--I guess I really am a kit lens "hater." Grrrrrr . . .

    However, I still stand by my argument: that a beginner's progress with a kit lens, may be "impeded," by virtue of the lens' perceived versatility, and that it will be harder for beginners to discover the creative limits of their kit lens (since they have nothing to compare it with), and that they may find it difficult to even acknowledge its limitations because their kit lens already "does everything." With a set of standard, fixed-focal length lenses, I believe that they will be more inclined to progress as a student of photography quicker, with more learned technique than they otherwise would've gained with the kit lens alone.

    For the expert photographer, who already knows what they want, a kit lens is perfectly fine. I may in fact, one day, pick up the short Nikon DX kit lens, just because it's convenient, and I never really need shallow focus on a wide-angle anyway. This rant is mostly aimed at beginners (who I'm hoping to benefit, not to deride, from my opinions) who aren't familiar with what other lenses may have to offer to them creatively.

    My argument is also about the person that obsesses about megapixels and other technical minutia, and forks over $2,500 for a brand new D700, only to slap a slow, low-priced kit lens on it. To me, that's like putting Model-T tires on a Ferrari, to use an automotive analogy (which isn't exactly what I mean to say, and is why I try to avoid making analogies).

    Posted 2 years ago #
  20. NSXType-R

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    studio460 said:
    adamz, Rusty, PB PM:

    Okay, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree--I guess I really am a kit lens "hater." Grrrrrr . . .

    However, I still stand by my argument: that a beginner's progress with a kit lens, may be "impeded," by virtue of the lens' perceived versatility, and that they may cause them to be slower to discover its creative limits (since they have nothing to compare it with), and may find it difficult to even acknowledge its limitations because their kit lens already "does everything." With a set of standard, fixed-focal length lenses, I believe that they more likely would have the potential to progress as a student of photography quicker, with more learned technique than they otherwise would've had with the kit lens alone.

    For the expert photographer, who already knows what they want, a kit lens is perfectly fine. I may in fact, one day, pick up the short Nikon DX kit lens, just because it's convenient, and I never really need shallow focus on a wide-angle anyway. This rant is mostly aimed at beginners (who I'm hoping to benefit, not to deride, from my opinions) who aren't familiar with what other lenses may have to offer to them creatively.

    My argument is also about the person that obsesses about megapixels and other technical minutia, and forks over $2,500 for a brand new D700, only to slap a slow, low-priced kit lens on it. To me, that's like putting Model-T tires on a Ferrari, to use an automotive analogy (which isn't exactly what I mean to say, and is why I try to avoid making analogies).

    That's a valid argument, pairing a high end body with poor optics, but maybe someone wants a big zoom range with a 24-120? That's a variable aperture lens, and I hear mixed reviews about it all the time. But to be honest, how many terrible FX lenses have you heard about? Maybe there are cheap zooms for DX, but most new FX lenses are higher end stuff anyway.

    Funny story- I've seen someone using an 18-200 VR on a D3. My buddy and I were both laughing at him. He has a D50, I have a D40. He'd be better off giving his lens off to us.

    If a person is using a D700 with an 18-55 lens, he probably already has too much money to know how to spend it wisely and to be honest, is probably using that camera to show off.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  21. heartyfisher

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    studio460 said:
    adamz, Rusty, PB PM:

    Okay, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree--I guess I really am a kit lens "hater." Grrrrrr . . .

    Hey this is a friendly forum ! Just say you are a LOVER of non kit lenses ... heh :-).

    Posted 2 years ago #
  22. Rusty1963

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    @ Hearty trust someone from down under to turn everything upside down!!!

    have a great weekend all!

    Posted 2 years ago #
  23. spraynpray

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    Perhaps the deeper-than-FX depth of field of DX means that the format really isn't suitable for pictures where the subject is heavily isolated using a larger aperture? I personally think it is a great format for landscapes, pano's and macro stuff where we benefit from the larger d-o-f.

    Can someone tell me what happens when you use the DX facility of one of the FX cameras? Is it just a crop of the image size, or do the (for me) above benefits of DX become available to an FX user?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  24. towen7

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    NSXType-R said:

    Funny story- I've seen someone using an 18-200 VR on a D3. My buddy and I were both laughing at him. He has a D50, I have a D40. He'd be better off giving his lens off to us.

    If a person is using a D700 with an 18-55 lens, he probably already has too much money to know how to spend it wisely and to be honest, is probably using that camera to show off.

    I mean no offense but I just don't get comments like this. There is sooooooo much more to good photography than an expensive lens and an FX sensor. To judge a photographer by his equipment is silly. The 18-200mm lens is IMO a pretty good lens if speed and DOF are not what you need for the shot you're after. Knowledge of how to use a lens and work around it's "limitations" is a mark of a good photographer.

    Joe Mcnally with an iPhone can likely get better images than I would with a D3x and 14-24mm f/2.8 ED lens.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  25. heartyfisher

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    I am a fan of the DX format but if I come into some cash and I get fed up waiting for the D400 I may just get a D700. And I wont have any qualms about using my 18-200 or 12-24 or 18-70 on it.

    Posted 2 years ago #

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