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I Am Being Tempted By EVIL

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NSXType-R

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NikoDoby said:
The M8 was a piece of... excrement(as jonnyapple and chrislange like to say). I got rid of mine quick.

It's almost the exact same camera with just a fatter grip and different button layout. Not sure how Nikon would make their EVIL camera any different than the COOLPIX layout though. Would they go more for a point&shoot design like Olympus, Panny, and now Sony or do they go for a bit larger body like the big zoom point&shoot COOLPIXes (P100 etc.)or the Samsung NX series.

I still would go for the Panasonic.

By the way, if you want one for cheap, Thom Hogan is selling two of his EP-1s I think in his spring cleaning thing.

Posted 3 years ago #
NikoDoby

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NSXType-R said:
I still would go for the Panasonic.

By the way, if you want one for cheap, Thom Hogan is selling two of his EP-1s I think in his spring cleaning thing.

You've already said you'd pick the GF1 but you haven't said why? Even though you lose some controls I prefer the E-PL1 because of the on board flash. Like I said I like using fill flash.

jonnyapple said:
I guess what I'd like is a rangefinder with an LCD screen for the uninitiated. I want a FF digital Nikon S3 (S4?) with an LCD screen for under $2000. Now is that so hard?

M4/3 for the win! ;-)

Do you mean you want an LCD for framing like a viewfinder? Digital Rangefinders don't have "liveview" on the LCD. That would be an EVIL camera. Or do you mean you want an LCD on a rangefinder to view your images after you take them like on the Leica M9?

Posted 3 years ago #
NSXType-R

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NikoDoby said:
You've already said you'd pick the GF1 but you haven't said why? Even though you lose some controls I prefer the E-PL1 because of the on board flash. Like I said I like using fill flash.

Do you mean you want an LCD for framing like a viewfinder? Digital Rangefinders don't have "liveview" on the LCD. That would be an EVIL camera. Or do you mean you want an LCD on a rangefinder to view your images after you take them like on the Leica M9?

The GF1 has a flash too.

Posted 3 years ago #
NikoDoby

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NSXType-R said:
The GF1 has a flash too.

I was referring to your statement about TH selling his E-P1. I prefer the E-PL1 because it has a flash. I like the GF1 too, but I like the E-PL1's lower price.

adamz said:
Ok guys, I have to admit that I got my wife a sony P&S for her b-day, and You know what... she loves it. I also have to admit, that I'm tempted with the Panasonic m4/3 with a nice pancake lens.

Which model did you get her Adam? Was it one of the new back-illuminated CMOS cameras? I really like my Sony point&shoots.

Posted 3 years ago #
NSXType-R

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NikoDoby said:
I was referring to your statement about TH selling his E-P1. I prefer the E-PL1 because it has a flash. I like the GF1 too, but I like the E-PL1's lower price.

Which model did you get her Adam? Was it one of the new back-illuminated CMOS cameras? I really like my Sony point&shoots.

Oh okay. Yeah, that's a good point, the GF1 is expensive. Almost all EVIL cameras are expensive- $500 is 5/8 of the way to a 105 micro! I could get an awesome macro lens with that money!

Posted 3 years ago #
kanuck

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I have always loved Leicas and follow their products closely. Check out their new Evil design that is supposed to come out for Photokina 2010. http://leicarumors.com/ looks very cool at 21 MP with nice auto focusing. Of course the price is high but nothing new there.

Posted 3 years ago #
NikoDoby

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I'm thinking the Leica EVIL is a re-badge of the Panasonic "pro" build, metal bodied EVIL camera that has also been rumored. I'd bet that they probably are the "same" camera. Looks like Photokina is going to be full of several new EVIL cameras. Come on Nikon make sure you show up with yours too!

Posted 3 years ago #
poster

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Niko how does manual focus work? Any thoughts? I imagine it's a bit pain in the arse when using the lcd.

Posted 3 years ago #
NikoDoby

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poster said:
Niko how does manual focus work? Any thoughts? I imagine it's a bit pain in the arse when using the lcd.

On the Olympus? It's basically just like a point&shoot. You can select individual focus points (11 to choose from) or leave it on auto and it'll decide for you, such as when Face detect is on. You can select single, continuous, or manual focus. There is no AF illuminator to assist in low-light where it can sometimes hunt around.

There is a "zoom" button that magnifies the live image on the LCD screen to check focus in either auto or manual mode. It's located near your thumb, and being that it feels and handles like a point&shoot, I often times kept pushing it expecting to zoom in on a subject. You have to turn the lens as you would with a DSLR to zoom in and out. I had to constantly remind myself about that :^)

Posted 3 years ago #
poster

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Yeah that's what is holding me back a bit.

Is the lag in regards to changing focus manually or zooming significant on the LCD or kind of bearable.

I am waiting for the Sony upcoming cameras. I almost pulled the trigger on the Pany GF1 yesterday. But mostly I am anxious about Canon micro 4/3 system, if they ever develop it that is. Don't care about Nikon anymore. I have a feeling that it's going to be just like it's p and shoot cameras.

Posted 3 years ago #
kanuck

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Niko you are probably right it will probably be a collaboration with Panasonic like their crap-lux line. Too bad although the concepts should be interesting. I agree, this years Photokina appears to be an EVIL camera orientated fare. Rangefinders have made a huge comeback the past 2 years to the present as well. I think with the EVIL system, people are wanting a smaller camera option and are tired of lugging around a bulky D300s with huge battery grip and then say the 3 pound 70-200. If your a working pro you have no choice.

Posted 3 years ago #
NikoDoby

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A few days ago Leica announced a new camera, the V-Lux 20. Which is just a rebadged Panasonic ZS-7 point&shoot. I doubt Leica has the resources to make their own EVIL camera out of scratch (though the Leica X1 is unique). I agree that it's possible that the DSLR market has peaked and is on it's way down and only "pros" will be using them.

Speaking of Panasonic and Leica, look at this. DC Watch has an article on a GF1 with a Leica 35mm f1.4 lens and an external optical viewfinder! I LOVE THIS SET UP! Should I be ashamed that this is now my desktop image? ;^)

Did I already mention I LOVE THIS SET UP!

Posted 3 years ago #
poster

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How does the optical viewfinder work? Does it give the approximate view of what the actually the camera sees?

Posted 3 years ago #
jonnyapple

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That really is gorgeous, Niko. Poster, it turns it into basically a twin lens reflex camera. The main disadvantage is the parallax (like you hinted at, the view is only approximate because you're looking from a different axis than the imaging lens). It matters most for close subjects, though, and you could just use the LCD in those situations.

Posted 3 years ago #
NSXType-R

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kanuck said:
Niko you are probably right it will probably be a collaboration with Panasonic like their crap-lux line. Too bad although the concepts should be interesting. I agree, this years Photokina appears to be an EVIL camera orientated fare. Rangefinders have made a huge comeback the past 2 years to the present as well. I think with the EVIL system, people are wanting a smaller camera option and are tired of lugging around a bulky D300s with huge battery grip and then say the 3 pound 70-200. If your a working pro you have no choice.

Any relation to the Lumix LX3? I liked that camera.

Posted 3 years ago #
kanuck

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That Lumix had a nice wide lens 2 24mm Leica F2 I believe did it not NSXType-R? The Lumix LX3 was just your standard 10mp point and shoot though. For point and shoots I always bought and still would buy only Canon.

Posted 3 years ago #
NSXType-R

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kanuck said:
That Lumix had a nice wide lens 2 24mm Leica F2 I believe did it not NSXType-R? The Lumix LX3 was just your standard 10mp point and shoot though. For point and shoots I always bought and still would buy only Canon.

I believe so- it's not as standard a camera as you think it is though, I don't think most point and shoots have such a fast lens. I think at the highest focal length, it was a F/2.8, that's really quick.

I like the Canon S90, but it doesn't do HD video. If I were to plunk money down, I'd get something a little better rounded. I'm no videographer, but I still like the option of taking HD video if I want to.

Posted 3 years ago #
kanuck

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Yes an F2 lens on a point and shoot is basically unheard of. Basically, camera companies are trying to make DSLR cameras in a smaller point and shoot type bodies so this is where the EVIL sytem comes in. I certainly would appreciate a powerful body in a small package, but the technology just isn't there yet.

Posted 3 years ago #
NSXType-R

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kanuck said:
Yes an F2 lens on a point and shoot is basically unheard of. Basically, camera companies are trying to make DSLR cameras in a smaller point and shoot type bodies so this is where the EVIL sytem comes in. I certainly would appreciate a powerful body in a small package, but the technology just isn't there yet.

That's my issue- if I want a small camera, I don't want to be worrying about lenses, I want it to be as damn small as possible. So I really am not interested in EVIL because it would mean I need to invest in more lenses. Not my cup of tea, but it could be yours. If it's a fast compact with a shorter focal length range but a fast one, I'm willing to compromise. I prefer the wider end anyway.

Posted 3 years ago #
bmxdad

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So what do you expect to be shown on May 11 when Sony shows their Evil side

Pete

Posted 3 years ago #
clillja

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kanuck said:
Yes an F2 lens on a point and shoot is basically unheard of. Basically, camera companies are trying to make DSLR cameras in a smaller point and shoot type bodies so this is where the EVIL sytem comes in. I certainly would appreciate a powerful body in a small package, but the technology just isn't there yet.

The Sony looks like it's going to be a notch closer to what I'm looking for. APS sensor, high-res screen. No built-in flash stinks. Proprietary flash connection stinks more.

Plenty of point and shoot digital cameras had fast lenses back in the day. 'Course they stunk at ISO400 so they needed them. All my early Mavica's had F2 lenses, ad did the eary Canon "G" series. Olympus had F1.8 on a few.... The fast lenses went away as the cameras got cheaper and a little better at higher ISOs...

If Nikon makes a small sensor compact camera, they should bring back those nifty QV Nikkor 10-40 mm f/1.4 and QV Nikkor 11-120 mm f/2 zooms but those won't be a cheap items.... and not sure if that design would cover a 17mm diagonal. That would make Nikon stand out in the crowd. Bring back the QV mount!

Posted 3 years ago #
bmxdad

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The QV lenses was used on a very small sensor, yes they might not cover a larger sensor

Pete

Posted 3 years ago #
clillja

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QV = 2/3" sensor = 11mm - so maybe not without some expansion. But by the time Nikon gets in the game they're going need to something with a little 'wow' factor to make a dent... an f1.4 zoom would get some attention.... or a dedicated monochrome version - something to set them apart...

Posted 3 years ago #
NikoDoby

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It would be dumb if Nikon made a QV mount EVIL camera and why would anyone want a B&W only EVIL camera? QV mount was never sold to the public. I think there were only two lenses for the QV camera (the two clillja mentions) and the rest of the QV lenses were just "concepts" and never made. The QV camera was only used by the press in Japan and less than 100 cameras were ever made.

The QV1000C was a video camera that captured digital still images and saved them to floppy disk. It had a crop factor of 4 so thats why they could get that f1.4 with such a small sensor. The 10-40mm lens was actually 40-160mm. The camera was black & white only because back then (1980s) it was faster to transmit B&W images and also the image quality wasn't that good but good enough for newspapers.

NSXType-R said:
That's my issue- if I want a small camera, I don't want to be worrying about lenses, I want it to be as damn small as possible. So I really am not interested in EVIL because it would mean I need to invest in more lenses. Not my cup of tea, but it could be yours. If it's a fast compact with a shorter focal length range but a fast one, I'm willing to compromise. I prefer the wider end anyway.

It's not just that the lenses and bodies are small, it's that the sensors are so much bigger than a typical point&shoot. The new Sony NEX EVIL cameras will have the same sized sensor as your D40 or D300 but in a very small body! This EVIL cameras also allow you to use all sorts of different lenses on them with adapters. Just look at the Leica lens on the Panasonic I posted above. I've seen full sized Nikon lenses mounted to the Olympus E-P1 cameras lots of times.

So you wouldn't have to buy new lenses. Maybe just an adapter and that's it. Imagine if you could mount everyone's favorite lens, the 35mm f1.8, on a point&shoot with a D90's sensor!

Samsung currently makes the TL500 point&shoot which has a 3inch swivel AMOLED LCD screen, metal body, and an 24-72mm f1.8 lens! However it doesn't shoot HD video otherwise I would have bought one.

Posted 3 years ago #