This whole idea is stupid. Not financially profitable to Nikon if it wants to sell to the masses.Hint- that's us
This is why DSLR have to become modular
(66 posts) (17 voices)-
Posted 3 years ago #
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just lower the prices of dslr's and we will not need modular cameras, IMHO the idea is nice, but rather hard to implement due to financial issues - it will lower the sales number of new units
Posted 3 years ago # -
Do you think cars are modular? Having a modular design does not mean that you have to change modules and upgrade and put together your own. You can buy one design and have it for the life of the product. Most people will be purchasing it that way. Having a modular design does not make something more expensive it makes it cheaper and more agile.
Nikon could be releasing new versions of the D90/D300/D3 every 6 months with upgrades in processing power, MP, Sensors, VR, DR, WIFI etc...But having a modular design allows enthusiest to put together "The Beast!" easily that can drive over and crush 10 of the oposition's products. (Free Advertisemenst!)
Back to the PC equivilent. Yes most people buys one PC and never upgrades it and when its done they bin it(Please recycle!) and buy another. while others will reasearch the full range of motherboards and read the reviews of each chipsets and CPU then decide on getting a motherboard that fits his requirement of onboard GPU, Get the case and Power supply and monitor. Install his Fav operating system(Ubuntu 10.4 RC1). Scavange an old HD, old Graphic card and an old monitor for a second monitor, Overclock the 2.8GHz cpu to 3.5Ghz. (That set up would cost 2-4 times as much for equal performance from a named brand) in 8 months time a when the new 6 Core CPU have been out for 6 months. The CPU and Graphics card is upgraded with a 50% Boost in performance because it has been researched and will be compatible and would still be cheaper than a "Bought one" by 70%.( yeah I love my new PC running Ubuntu (-: )
Re the processing in the Sensor module. The Sensor of course needs some Processing but Not much, all that needs to come out of it is a DNG RAW file. USB3 can stream out at 600 MB per second if the DNG is 30MB thats 20 Pictures per second. From a standard USB3 interface! I would expect that for the Sensor output interface specifically designed for this task (and the short distances required) You could easily double or quadrupal that.
Modular systems may be a bit scarry for the Big monopolistic companies but its great for consumers!
Posted 3 years ago # -
Yes heartyfisher: They make a DSLR, maybe Pro first and the Sensor/main PCB can slide out, sort like a 2.5inch harddrive. This should not really add to the cost of the Camera. You might newer upgrade or change the Sensor module, but if sensor is dirty it would be easier to clean, defective easier to replace, you finally actually could get a B&W DLSR by then changing the Module, Easy to upgrade to IR either by upgrading to a new IR module or modifying the old one
I am not interested in upgrading an old DSLR, only the above
Pete
Posted 3 years ago # -
No I don't think cars are modular. They are customizable. You buy a Subaru and then you can customize it with all sorts of parts. But as anyone who has customized their vehicle will know, customizing your vehicle rarely ever makes it worth more than the money and time you put into it. You always, with few exceptions, lose whatever you invest in customizing your ride. And Subaru will not honor your warranty if you customize certain parts.
So I fail to understand how a modular design will make the camera cheaper? Computer parts are cheap because there are a gazillion manufacturers who make the same part. Competition is what drives cost waaay down. As does the large scale demand for computer parts. But a modular Nikon will still be made by Nikon in small numbers so they can charge you $500USD for a different viewfinder or how about $1500 just for a new sensor? So that's on top of the price you initially paid for say a $3000USD modular "D800".
I think the laptop analogy is a better one. A modular laptop is a stupid idea. You can update the ram or harddrive but why would you want to switch out just the screen or just the USB drive? I'd rather just get a new laptop.
Pete you don't like the GXR but that's exactly the kind of camera that you are describing. Ricoh can sell a B&W or IR only module with or without a lens attached. Yet everyone says the GXR is waaay too expensive?!?!
Posted 3 years ago # -
It is not about making cheaper either, I just hope you can make it for app the same cost, it the above benefits that matters
Pete
Posted 3 years ago # -
sure Niko, but it's not a problem to upgrade the screen in Your laptop if You want to do it, as the parts are pretty much unified, which can't be spoken about dslr parts. You can't take canon sensor and put it into Your Nikon slr, while You could easily take samsung screen and put it into sony laptop
Posted 3 years ago # -
You also can't put a D3s sensor in a D3x as the Xpeed processor is tuned to the specific sensor. My point is that no part of the electronics in a DSLR is standalone (like in a PC). You would have to swap it all, each time so only the outer shell and buttons remain. Cost for each "cartridge" would be about 90% of a whole camera, but you wouldn't have a back up camera when you where done.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Thom figure at the D3s level it would be app 50%, read his post about it, remember there are many other expensive parts that does not neat to change
Pete
Posted 3 years ago # -
how would tom know? How many modular cameras has he built?
Posted 3 years ago # -
Maybe he doesn't know anything just like you and me, Niko with might I add a very fitting tittle. There will always be doubts about anything new, but unless talked about it will just not happen, right
Just like a Nikon Cellphone, Nikon might as we speak be in the middle of designing one, or after reading the responds from most of the NRF members not be interested at all, we really don't know
Pete
Posted 3 years ago # -
i highly doubt this will ever happen - camera makers "may" make more in the process, but warranties, updating, etc. would go to hell in a hand basket. . .I could see tons of people losing sensors too (which would be great for Nikon in terms of replacement costs). . .
that's why you should buy LENSES first and foremost and buy the aging body (Nikon D3, D300, D90) on closeout when the new models are announced!
Posted 3 years ago # -
If you think about it D3x was 4000$ more than D3 price when announced.
If approximated price of D3 module should be half the camera price that would be 2000$-2500$ dollars (I added 500$ for modularity).
If you sum up D3x module for D3 would be around 6500$ … I think I would rather go for a complete new body.Posted 3 years ago # -
shivaswrath said:
i highly doubt this will ever happen - camera makers "may" make more in the process, but warranties, updating, etc. would go to hell in a hand basket. . .I could see tons of people losing sensors too (which would be great for Nikon in terms of replacement costs). . .that's why you should buy LENSES first and foremost and buy the aging body (Nikon D3, D300, D90) on closeout when the new models are announced!
Shiva,
In your opinion given your closeout theory, when would be a good time in year 2010 to buy a new D90, economically? I don’t need it right now, because I have a standby but sometime this year I will need to buy it.
Thanks
BTW: Does Shivaswrath == Tandav ?
Posted 3 years ago # -
NikoDoby said:
Pete you don't like the GXR but that's exactly the kind of camera that you are describing. Ricoh can sell a B&W or IR only module with or without a lens attached. Yet everyone says the GXR is waaay too expensive?!?!
NikoDoby said:
That makes no sense foofie. Ricoh can, at anytime, introduce a module with just a sensor and a lens mount, no lens. Thats why it's a modular design.
So if they did that then suddenly the GXR becomes a brilliant idea?!? That's what I don't understand why you guys hate the GXR but "demand" a modular camera from Nikon?
First off, as I said I'm not really sure how I feel about the modular idea, although people have made plenty of good points as to why its not a good idea. But it's also not fair to call the ricoh gxr an example of this.
from dpreview:
"After several weeks of rumors Ricoh has unveiled its first digital system camera, the GRX. The system takes a novel approach by offering interchangeable slide mount 'lens units' - sealed modules containing both optics and sensor, meaning it can switch from a large (APS-C) 12 MP CMOS with a fast prime lens to a tiny 10 MP CCD (with a 24-70mm lens)."If they were interested in just 'introduc[ing] a module with just a sensor and a lens mount, no lens. ' then I believe they would have done that to begin with. I honestly haven't the slightest idea what they were thinking with this model.
Or is the idea that each lens is paired specifically with it's sensor to acheive optimum performance? That's not a terrible idea (if thats the case). I dunno just talking.I suppose if ricoh did offer it as a true modular system then maybe people wouldn't hate it as much, but as it stands now, it is not modular. Immagine if it was a film camera, and you could swap the lens coupled with the type of film it took. You wouldn't call that a modular system you'd just call that annoying because you couldn't use all your lenses with the camera, each lens would only shoot on a certain film size.
Now I'm sure the argument I just presented has PLENTY of holes in it, but I need to get back to working on my statistics project, haha. And as I said before, I'm not entirely sold (and am less and less sold as time goes on) on the modular system idea anyway. just interesting to think about it I think.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Hi all , in a bit of a hurry so I am going to be a bit brief(and terse :-))
Expeed is just a CPU , Its tuned by the software. so if you add a bit more memory you can load up versions for each Sensor.
Cars are modular, Just check out just about any episode of Junkyard wars (or similar). Its expensive to customise only becaue you pay to have it customised. If you buy the parts from the manufactures directly you can get a nice ride for about half the price.
It will take a small player with a great design to break the non modular monopoly. Best chance of this would be some one like olympus or pentax or sigma(most likely) they should just give up on the faveon or modularise it ! :-) As I mentioned before the 4/3 companies has the agreements between companies that could make a modular system work. I am not saying it will be a 4/3 I am saying the companies that make up the 4/3 could agree on a modular design and together they can rival and beat the big 2.
Posted 3 years ago # -
It's a MODULAR camera! Just because they've only released two modules with fixed lenses so far doesn't mean they can't in the future do a module with a sensor and just a lens mount.
In fact at a Ricoh show booth they had a module with a Leica lens mount and also a mount for Hasselblad lenses!
Posted 3 years ago # -
heartyfisher said:
Cars are modular, Just check out just about any episode of Junkyard wars (or similar). Its expensive to customise only becaue you pay to have it customised. If you buy the parts from the manufactures directly you can get a nice ride for about half the price.Spoken like someone who's never customized a car before. So I'm sure you are going to buy your next Subaru in pieces and build it yourself so that it'll cost you 50% of the original price for the same car?!? Alrighty then...
Posted 3 years ago # -
haha
Posted 3 years ago # -
I think that you guys should just petition to have Nikon sell model kits of their DSLRs, then you can customize everything.
Posted 3 years ago # -
heartyfisher said:
Hi all , in a bit of a hurry so I am going to be a bit brief(and terse :-))Expeed is just a CPU , Its tuned by the software. so if you add a bit more memory you can load up versions for each Sensor.
Cars are modular, Just check out just about any episode of Junkyard wars (or similar). Its expensive to customise only becaue you pay to have it customised. If you buy the parts from the manufactures directly you can get a nice ride for about half the price.
It will take a small player with a great design to break the non modular monopoly. Best chance of this would be some one like olympus or pentax or sigma(most likely) they should just give up on the faveon or modularise it ! :-) As I mentioned before the 4/3 companies has the agreements between companies that could make a modular system work. I am not saying it will be a 4/3 I am saying the companies that make up the 4/3 could agree on a modular design and together they can rival and beat the big 2.
Not exactly true on the cars analogy- I'd like to see you fit a part from a Mercedes onto an Audi, but I get your point.
Posted 3 years ago # -
^
Easy! You MacGuyver it!
Posted 3 years ago # -
Redneck all the way!!! Many mutants have already showed up on this forum anyway such as the 3D camera... Which would make the modular system more useful for a few.
As noted above... Hasselblad anyone?
The problem lies within the cost... A modular camera from Nikon wouldn't be a technological marvel, It is just that Nikon builds upon what it has to keep costs down.
The cost essentially being a designers salary who I'm are sure are prone to procrastinate.
Posted 3 years ago # -
NikoDoby said:
Spoken like someone who's never customized a car before. So I'm sure you are going to buy your next Subaru in pieces and build it yourself so that it'll cost you 50% of the original price for the same car?!? Alrighty then...LOL most people wont do that.. but I was going to upgrade my engine and suspension..just to get a bit of grunt. And Yes I am sure I could do it.. I have tinked a bit in my school days in the workshop :-) And I have looked at prices for engines and frames etc :-) its really just like putting a PC together. May not look preety but will do what I need better than a bought one :-)
Posted 3 years ago # -
heartyfisher said:
Hi all , in a bit of a hurry so I am going to be a bit brief(and terse :-))Expeed is just a CPU , Its tuned by the software. so if you add a bit more memory you can load up versions for each Sensor.
True, but you can bet that the Expeed CPU is clocked differently (physically) depending on the camera that it is installed in. I doubt the D3000 uses the same Expeed processor that the D3s does.
Posted 3 years ago #
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