Need help with settings for D5000 to take HS baseball action pictures dusk/night

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Need help with settings for D5000 to take HS baseball action pictures dusk/night

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nav0lat0

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I take pictures for our high schools' athletics and have bought a D5000 kit with 2 lens (AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G VR and AF-S DX VR Zoom-NIKKOR 55-200mm f/4-5.6G IF-ED). While during the day it takes fantastic pictures of all outside action shots, I am having problems taking dusk/night pictures. I try to use the sports mode and it is not always good (blurry). I read some where to try to set it to S and then set ISO to like 1600, but that was very dark. I finally got some decent images using S and ISO of no higher than 100, but not very sharp.

Any help would be appreciated.

BTW, use the 55-200 when taking these photos.

thank you!

Posted 3 years ago #
MyKing76

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If the lighting isn't that great, you may have some trouble with an aperture in the 4-5.6 range. You should definitely shoot in shutter mode to catch sports...but if you want to freeze the action you're going to have to use a shutter speed of 1/250 or faster, especially for baseball. With that, the ISO is going to have to be pretty high...especially at an aperture of 4 or more. I'm not sure what the max ISO is on the D5000, but anything above 1600 will probably be pretty noisy. Your can try to over-expose the pictures...setting the exposure to like +1.0, and you may be able to get away with a shutter speed of less than 1/250 if you're shooting people standing still or not making sudden movements...but if you're taking pictures of people pitching, batting or throwing...anything less than 1/320 or 1/400 may give you some blurry pictures.

What focal lengths are you using on the lens? Are you zooming to the 150-200 range a lot? The less you zoom, the better your pictures will be with a kit lens...because you'll have a wider aperture (closer to 4 than to 5.6). the more you zoom, the darker your image will be.

Ideally (and this is where it gets expensive), you would have a lens with an aperture of 2.8 or faster (lower number) for night sports photography. Anything higher than that will be pretty tough unless the field is well lit.

Posted 3 years ago #
jonnyapple

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Welcome, both of you. MyKing has some good advice. I can't see why the ISO 1600 shots would look dark. Noisy, probably, but they shouldn't be darker than proper exposure at ISO 200. If you're shooting in artificial light, it could be that at faster shutter speeds you're not catching the peak of the discharge lamps' light output while the shutter is open. You may be in trouble if that's true, and even wider aperture won't save the day. You might want to try taking loads of images at high shutter speeds and seeing if some are bright and some are dark. Could you post some samples? That usually helps. Anyone know what frequencies discharge lamps work at?

Posted 3 years ago #
Rusty1963

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I know that in South Africa, it's 52 cycles per second, and if I'm not mistaken, the U.S. operates at 110v and 60 cycles per second.

Theoretically then, any shutter speed faster than 1/60 second could catch the light on a "low cycle"

There is also a relatively economical Sigma 70 - 200 f2.8 lens that would work for you if you have the budget for it (I'm pretty sure that it's available for Nikon)

Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 II EX DG MACRO HSM

This is an "entry level" professional zoom and to start with, would allow you to take really good pictures of the night action.

Posted 3 years ago #
bmxdad

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I am not sure why the fear of high ISO, The D5000 has a max ISO of 6400, You know if you have X amount of light at max app of 4.5 or so, them maybe ISO 6400 is needed. Yes there will be noise but that is better than not getting the pictures that are sharp

Why not just try the different camera settings, see how different ISO settings effects your pictures, remember to shoot RAW so that noise removing software could be used if needed

Pete

Posted 3 years ago #
poster

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I concur with Rusty.

Get that Sigma 70-200 2.8. I think Tamron and Tokina make counterparts as well, but I am not sure if their are in face AF-S lenses.

This is your best option. The lens is pretty good.

Posted 3 years ago #
heartyfisher

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I would agree with Pete. The easiest way is probably to use sports mode and set the iso to 3200 and try some shots, do some at 6400 as well to see if you like the noise. One trick is if there is too much noise for your taste is to convert to B&W. You can get some nice pictures from those conversions.

You will probably get a few nice shots from that set up. Analyse these shots and see what settings the camera chose then figure out why. Then you would be a pro sports photographer!! able to set your camera ISO and aperture and shutter manually for the conditions you want and get even more great shots!

Posted 3 years ago #
stanschurman

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Try shooting at 3200 ISO at 1/250 sec and put the high ISO NR on. The D5000 and D90 handle high ISO nicely, slightly better than the D300S according to lab reports. Do your lenses have VR?

Posted 3 years ago #
jonnyapple

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poster said:
I think Tamron and Tokina make counterparts as well, but I am not sure if their are in face AF-S lenses.

I own the tamron 70-200 2.8, and it will autofocus on the D5000. It's as sharp as almost anything in that range, but has lousy AF speed, so I wouldn't recommend it for sports. Maybe you could get shots of the pitcher and the batter, though. You know where they'll be, right?

Posted 3 years ago #
shivaswrath

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you'll need a MUCH faster lens than the 55-200. . .

Posted 3 years ago #
heartyfisher

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If you are going for another lense on a budget, I would suggest looking into the Sigma 50-150 F2.8. If you can get court side this lense should be sufficient. of course THE lense to get is the 70-200 VR.

Posted 3 years ago #
adamz

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iso 1600, use spot metering, and central AF, use A priority with the fastest possible aperture

Posted 3 years ago #
clillja

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I love the 55-200 but it's not the best choice for this task. Still, you could probably get better results letting the camera choose a higher ISO and using the in-camera noise filter. Night sports action is very demanding business even with the best pro-quality cameras and lenses.

There is no inexpensive lens that I could suggest that retains metering and/or autofocus with the D5000. The Sigma 50-150/2.8, especially a newer version with "OS" (their term for VR) at about $750 USD is a good suggestion.

Spot metering and using the center AF sensor are also excellent suggestions. Just remember to keep that sensor on the subject when you squeeze the shutter.

Posted 3 years ago #
heartyfisher

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Dont think there is an OS version of the 50-150.. I have been looking out for that one. but I think there is a new 70-200 OS ... hopefully the 50-150 OS wont be far away.

Posted 3 years ago #
clillja

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Ughh. I was thinking of the new 17-50/2.8 OS - my bad.

If they don't get moving, maybe Nikon will beat them to the punch with one of their new "affordable" lenses. Maybe? Well, hopefully.

Posted 3 years ago #
jonnyapple

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a 50-150/50-135 2.8 VR would be a dream lens for me.

Posted 3 years ago #
Sandpiper

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adamz said:
iso 1600, use spot metering, and central AF, use A priority with the fastest possible aperture

I agree with Adamz on this. But I would like to say why.

Set ISO to 1600, as it will give you moderately high noise, but the fastest possible shutter speed to stop action. After you get some experience with this ISO, you can decide if it is OK, or you need 800, or even could afford more noise and go to 3200. But 1600 is a good starting point, and near the highest you can go, so near the fastest shutter speed you will get.

Set the Mode to A, and use maximum aperture. This is just insuring that the lens is open as far as possible. It gives you the most light, but will need focusing to be good. At this point you are taking control of the camera, and only that way can you judge how to improve what you are doing, IMHO.

Set metering to spot metering, so you get the proper exposure of the person, ignore the rest of the scene. Here, I would shoot a few photos of the person you are interested in, and check exposure of the result. If it is not good, then you have to figure out why, such as the lighting issue jonnyapple mentioned. Do this during idle time of the game.

Use central AF. With known good settings the give proper exposure, already checked per above, the number of tasks has been reduced to figuring out where the action will be, and getting focus there. Per Adamz method, you already have set the camera to get the highest shutter speed (other than using 3200 ISO) to stop action.

I think until you have done these things, and gotten the best results you can with this lens, it is not time to think about some other lens.

That's my 2 cents as a newbie DSLR operator.

Posted 3 years ago #
heartyfisher

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jonnyapple said:
a 50-150/50-135 2.8 VR would be a dream lens for me.

yeah ... but will have to wait.. the current 50-150 does look really nice though, great for portraits! even wide open the blur is more like Orton effect and the coating is really good. I may be getting one soon.. see how it goes.. may sell off my 35-70 and swap that for the 50-150 as I am using the nikkor 35-70 for portraits anyway.

Posted 3 years ago #
Rusty1963

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I just used my 70-200 VRII for the first time at night.

All things considered, I am quite happy with the way it performed.

This picture was taken with a D700
F2.8 ISO 3200 1/200sec 125mm

This is a training session, not under match lighting conditions.

Posted 3 years ago #
DavidSosa

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Try to use automatic mode. It often works as you want :)

Posted 2 years ago #
tcole1983

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DavidSosa said:
Try to use automatic mode. It often works as you want :)

Lol where did you find this thing from 10 months ago? Also I would have to disagree. Auto mode likes to compensate dark atmospheres with a flash and most likely the flash will not cut it in these situations.

The only answer to fast moving things in low light is to up the ISO and or have a faster lens.

Posted 2 years ago #
donaldejose

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Been there, done that, it won't work with your equipment. Unfortunately, you have the wrong camera body and the wrong lenses. The problem is low light in high school gyms. It doesn't seem dark in there to the human eye but it is dark to a camera and to f4 or f5.6 apertures. I tried it with a Nikon D80 and couldn't stop the action (freeze arms and the ball) reliably unless I used a shutter speed of 1/400 of a second. The highest ISO I found which was relatively "noise free" or (in old film language "grainless" was only 800 ISO on the D80. I tried shooting at 1600 ISO and 3200 ISO but didn't like the noise in the image. 1600 was tolerable but 3200 was not. Guess what? With limiting factors of f4 or f5.6 and ISO of 800 the camera simply didn't have enough light to use those settings. The light was lower than my limiting factors.

The answer? I bought a D7000 body because it can shoot in much lower light with much less noise. I can shoot at ISO 3200 and even up to ISO 6400. Next, you need lenses which go up to f2.8. With that combination you can shoot at 1/320 or 1/400 of a second and freeze the ball. Actually, F4 will work most of the time but you are balancing on the edge. The recently announced Nikon D5100 uses the same sensor as found in the D7000 (and costs about half the price) so it also should be able to shoot clean images at 3200 ISO.

Sorry to inform you but you just don't have the right gear for the lighting in a high school gym. The right gear will cost you about $2,000 to $3,000 more at least by the time you get a new body and a new fast lens.

Is there an alternative to spending that money? Yes, first find the highest ISO you feel is acceptable. I chose 800 ISO but you may be able to tolerate 1600. It depends a bit on how large you plan to print or view the image. Second, set your lenses to their widest f stop by using the aperture preferred mode. Third, try to "cheat" a little to gain one third f stop of light by setting exposure compensation to -0.3 or -0.7(2/3rds of an f stop of light). The image will be a little dark but you can lighten it in post shoot processing if you do that or you should be able to accept a slightly deeper colored image at -0.3 if you don't post shoot process in your computer. Now you have done all you can to use the maximum sensitivity your camera is capable of delivering. You cannot do any better with your equipment. The last item in the exposure formula is the shutter speed. Since you are using Aperture priority the camera will automatically select the shutter speed needed to expose at -0.3 (one third stop underexposure). Watch in your viewfinder to see what the number is. If the light is bright enough for the camera to select 1/320 second of higher number you will be able to freeze action. If the lighting is dim so the camera is selecting 1/250 shutter speed you can freeze slower moving action on court. If the camera is selecting 1/125 shutter speed you can freeze walking but not running. If the camera is selecting 1/60 shutter speed you can freeze non-moving action. When is there non-moving action in basketball? Basically when there is a pause as the player decides what to do, changes direction, stands there, reaches the peak of his jump before he starts back down, etc. If you are limited to the range of around 1/60th of a second with your equipment you are going to have to try to anticipate these pauses and trip the shutter at exactly the pause in the action. You will be able to get some sharp on court shots but they won't be the dramatic action shots you see in magazines since most of those are taken at 1/500th second and f2.8. You might only get one good sharp shot out of every ten attempts. But you aren't paying for film processing so the 9 throw aways are free to you.

I hope these suggestions help you. Good luck. It is very difficult. Been there don't that and spent the money for new equipment!

Posted 2 years ago #