where there’s smoke there’s forum fire
The new 18mp canon T2i looks pretty good for having so much more pixels over the Nikon. Now before you haters start hate'n on Nikon's low megapixel count the new rebates on the D90 are pretty much a sure thing that a new model is coming and besides for having "only" 12megapixels the D90 does very well against the T2i.
http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon_EOS_550D_Rebel_T2i/noise_JPEG.shtml
That T2i looks like a great camera. I'm excited to see what Nikon comes out with next. My guesses for this year are 18 MP D90/D300s replacement priced at ~$1600 to compete with the T2i and 7D (D400?), 12MP FX D90 body to surprise the market (D7000?), 36 MP FF (D4).
jonnyapple said:
That T2i looks like a great camera. I'm excited to see what Nikon comes out with next. My guesses for this year are 18 MP D90/D300s replacement priced at ~$1600 to compete with the T2i and 7D (D400?), 12MP FX D90 body to surprise the market (D7000?), 36 MP FF (D4).
I think nikon is really going to have to price aggressively to stop canon from stealing away a large sect of the entry dslr market. the t2i is quite the featureful device.
the good news is that better mean the d90 successor will atleast match it options wise in the video mode, hopefully surpass it as well.
Colors seem to be better on the Canon. Nice job.
Thing is, shouldn't the Canon be compared to the D5000?
sure it's a nice camera, but does canon even have lenses that will use so many mpx's?
The D5000 IS the direct competition not the D90. I ran a comparison between the D90, Rebel T1i, D300, and the 50D and the only pro features lacking in the D90 were the AF points, frame buffer, and metal build. The rebel Ti looked silly compared to the 3. The D90's closer equal is the 50D. Just because the hype for the D90 is consumer related and video doesn't mean it is an inadequate camera on the professional end. The first thing that marks a pro camera is the size and the amount of exterior controls and inner manual exposure control options. The D90 is considered by many a budget pro camera because the majority of D90 users I know and have seen are either serious students and apprentices, serious hobbyists, and professionals, not consumers that just want a DSLR to take family photos or beginning students. While the Mpx and consumer crap may be slightly better the class of the D90 is higher and much different than the rebels or D5000/D3000. To many(if not most) users the D90 is essentially a budget D300(s)(just as the D300 is a budget D700) and not a consumer exclusive camera... You could never catch a pro dead with a rebel.
You may be right, kyoshi, as I haven't read all that much about the T2i. I do love the D90 and as I've said elsewhere here I think the D90 is a budget D300, though not for everyone. It all depends on how you use it.
The D90 is indeed the budget D300s, just as the T2i is the budget 7D.
I am not a hater but rather a Nikon fan...
That sad it seams to me that Nikon would not be able to compete with this little devil, or any other Canon camera based on this fantastic new 18 Mpix sensor, in the near future.
The best Sony currently has is a far inferior in every sense 14 Mpix and they will not release anything better sooner than the end of this year, so that means that Nikon will not be able to make something competitive sooner then in 2012. That is the deal if you do not have your own sensor production. It seams to me that Nikon should seriously reconsider this situation.
Sure, who do you suggest? Should they buy sensors from, Canon (Yikes), Kodak, Panasonic? Those are the only choices they have for APS-C sensors, for FX, the choices would be Canon and Kodak...
mb said:
I am not a hater but rather a Nikon fan...
That sad it seams to me that Nikon would not be able to compete with this little devil, or any other Canon camera based on this fantastic new 18 Mpix sensor, in the near future.
The best Sony currently has is a far inferior in every sense 14 Mpix and they will not release anything better sooner than the end of this year, so that means that Nikon will not be able to make something competitive sooner then in 2012. That is the deal if you do not have your own sensor production. It seams to me that Nikon should seriously reconsider this situation.
Not a doubt, the results from the Canon are impressive. But what if the sensor from the D3s trickles downwards again? How related is the D90 sensor to the D3 sensor? They're probably really different, but they're still both wonderful at high ISOs.
I really won't be blowing photos up to 18MP anytime soon, but it could be useful for sure. I really am happy with 12 only. I'm sure the public will gobble them up though.
I really don't know what to say, Nikon will advance in their own way, possibly to 14. I prefer their slow and steady approach to cameras, as opposed to Canon which has a hit and a miss attitude. Their AF performance in their flagship is a hit and a miss, the 5D performance was a hit and a miss too. Some prefer the T1i or the XSi to their APS-C flagship.
I prefer Nikon's level of quality throughout the range approach as opposed to Canon's spray and pray approach. It seems more haphazard than anything else, and I hope consumers notice that too.
and I will say it one more time, it's not the camera that make You pro.
And what does that have to do with this discussion?
I doubt Nikon will trickle the D3S sensor down into an entry level camera and definitely not for $899USD. They can barely keep up with the demand of the D3S as it is. Besides Nikon have already said the next model(s) will be a balance between high megapixels and ISO.
I tend to agree that the T2i is a new "standard" but remember that it's the "same" sensor that's in the 7D and that sensor didn't do so good in the latest DXO rankings. So there is more at play here then just the sensor.
Pentax is using Samsung APS-C sensors, and there are other manufacturers, Toshiba for example is making sensors and have just entered photo market.
Nikon is selling more DSLR cameras and sensors than all others combined (Sony, Panasonic … except Canon of course) so they should be able to design their own sensors (like they did on D3) and use any of many fabs available for production.
And it is not DXO ratings that makes the pictures as Adamz would say, it certainly does not sell the cameras and currently Canon is doing twice as good as Nikon in DX market for what I know and if you look at the samples you will see why.
NikoDoby said:
I doubt Nikon will trickle the D3S sensor down into an entry level camera and definitely not for $899USD. They can barely keep up with the demand of the D3S as it is. Besides Nikon have already said the next model(s) will be a balance between high megapixels and ISO.I tend to agree that the T2i is a new "standard" but remember that it's the "same" sensor that's in the 7D and that sensor didn't do so good in the latest DXO rankings. So there is more at play here then just the sensor.
Probably not, but the software and sensor tricks they employed will trickle down for sure.
I'd be happy if it had 3/4 of the performance of the D3s.
Nikon makes the machines that build the sensors. Yet they don't have the facilities to actually use their own steppers to make their own sensors. The D3(S) and D700 are still made by another company and only designed by Nikon.
Since Nikon has no fabs (which are extremely expensive to build) it would be rather hard for them to develop their own sensors.
In any case, Samsung and Toshiba's best sensors are 14MP, no better than Sony. If they want higher res sensors than that they have two choices, Canon or Kodak.
Not true, Faveon for example is designing their own sensors and they have no fab, so are many others IC designing only comanies.
By the way Canon EOS 550D/Rebel T2i was designed as a response to Micro 4/3, and if you compare the jokes from Panasonic and Olympus with this one for half the price you get much much better camera. You can even get much more compact G11 or my favorite S90 for the price difference and be really happy camper ;)
According to wikipedia there are only 4 stepper manufactures. ASML, Nikon, Ultratech, and canon. IC makers use one of those four to make their integrated circuits. ASML is the biggest followed by Nikon and Ultratech. Canon is a distant 4th.
That is correct Niko, as far as I know, though this Nikon division is not making much profit lately ... They are making too good machines so they are not replaced frequently ;)
mb said:
By the way Canon EOS 550D/Rebel T2i was designed as a response to Micro 4/3, and if you compare the jokes from Panasonic and Olympus with this one for half the price you get much much better camera. You can even get much more compact G11 or my favorite S90 for the price difference and be really happy camper ;)
Somehow I doubt the T2i was a response to Micro 4/3, they aren't even in the same category of cameras. This is just my point of view, but to me Canon's response was the G11.
If anything the T1i and T2i are Canon's way of saying to Nikon, "The D5000/D90 ain't going to cut it."
mb said:
That is correct Niko, as far as I know, though this Nikon division is not making much profit lately ... They are making too good machines so they are not replaced frequently ;)
It's not just Nikon though. All four aren't doing to good. Nikon recently laid off workers from that division. Canon's stepper division is doing especially bad. Their latest stepper had a lot of reliability problems.
Wasn't there a quote on the blog about how Nikon is going to make enthusiasts very happy this year? I think we'll see a response (maybe not at 18MP, but it wouldn't surprise me either) probably this year and definitely before 2012. I still think a full-frame enthusiast camera is something that seems very Nikon-ish to me. I'll bet they would like to have another first under their belt. If they sell a D90-like body with the D700 sensor in it for less than the 7D, it seems like that would sell very well. And it would also do well in a high-ISO test like this. ;-)
There were rumors of an 18MP FF sensor from Nikon that got tested with the D3 but Nikon opted with the D3 sensor. If true, maybe they'd even put that in a D90-like body and price it with the 7D.
edit: for the record, I'd buy either if they actually made one of those.
I doubt Nikon would do that, it would kill almost all sales the D300s, and potentially mean no replacement for the latter. That would be sad, because a semi-pro DX body is important to have in ones lineup, IMO.
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