where there’s smoke there’s forum fire
Hey gang, looks like I'm going to be upgrading from the D80.
At this point I can't justify another $1,000 for FX (plus new glass) or waiting for 8-12 months for the D400 to be released.
I've heard nothing but good things about the D300s and look forward to putting it through it's paces once I get my hands on it.
If you guys have any tips / tricks in regards to the D300s, don't hesitate to let me know.
I should be picking it up this weekend.
Thanks!
Congrats, regulator! I think it will be an easy switch for you.
My 2¢: use My Menu—it's one of the best software updates the current batch has over the D200/D40/etc. If you want some recommendations from a non-landscape shooter of what settings to put there, here's my take from another thread about a D90 upgrade:
jonnyapple said:
Another suggestion I have is to set the Fn button (custom setting f3 [f5 on the D300s]) to 'Access top item in MY MENU.' My Menu is such a handy feature because you put just the menu items you use most in it so you don't have to dig through all the menus finding them. I set my top menu item to change what the built-in flash does for creative lighting (the wireless flash control). This also lets me get into My Menu in two buttons one handed (R-middle finger press Fn, R-thumb press left on the directional pad).If you're looking for a starting point, here is what's in my 'My Menu' (in this order):
e2 Flash cntrl for built-in flash
c3 Self-timer
d10 Exposure delay mode
a1 AF-area mode
Movie settings
Battery info
ISO sensitivity auto control
a7 Live view autofocus
f2 OK button (shooting mode)One of my biggest gripes about the D100 was having to press so many buttons to get to the self-timer settings. Happy shooting!
I have also used Fn and the DOF preview button as spot and matrix metering respectively and left the camera in center-weighted.
edit: Then I realized I was always using center-weighted and had gotten more careful about what I was metering when setting exposure, so I switched to what I wrote above.
You're going to love that big, beautiful screen.
I just thought of one more tip that applies to anyone who's going to use the newer models' video mode.
When the exposure looks about right in the live-view mode, before you start recording video you should push the AE-L button and make sure you have that button's behavior set to [AE Lock (hold)]. That will prevent the camera from changing the exposure abruptly mid-video, which was my biggest gripe about the video until I figured this out. Many Bothans died to bring us this information.
That's okay though. As long as no Ewoks got hurt.
Thanks Jonnyapple, I appreciate it.
No problem, Regulator. I don't even know if that's the kind of advice you wanted.
NikoDoby said:
That's okay though. As long as no Ewoks got hurt.
Actually, Bothans here means Home Videos, and they're dispensable—at least when you take as many as I do. I would never hurt an Ewok!
Well upon further review I'm even more conflicted.
I'm not 100% sold on the D300s, the compared reviews to the D90 are so close.
Why the hell did Nikon use the same sensor... Arrrgggg. ;)
D300s
-51 AF points
-3D tracking of moving subjects
-Weather Sealed, Magnesium body
-No scene modes
-More custom settings
-HD video (5 min max)
-Can't use my ML-L3 IR remote
-CF and SDHC cards slots - I Don't use CF
-7 fps
-More expensive grip
D90
-Same sensor
-11 AF points
-Lighter
-DXO Mark results scored higher than D300s
-Same LCD display
-Scene modes for when the wife want's to use the camera.
-4.5 fps
-Less expensive grip
-Will not meter older AI-S lenses (I have none)
I can get the D90, grip and the Nikkor 85mm f/1.8 for the same price of the D300s.
Does the 51 AF points really make that big of a difference?
Thoughts?
I can't comment on the auto-focus, but I've got a D90 and am delighted with it. I also plan to get a D300s for 2 reasons - 1) will meter my 500/8 reflex and the 85/2.8 PC-E and 2) 100% finder accuracy. Better seals, faster AF and dual card slots are nice additions and they could be important after I use them, but I wouldn't spend the money to get them now. I wouldn't buy the D300s if I didn't already have the lenses I need either.
Regulator75 said:
Does the 51 AF points really make that big of a difference?Thoughts?
Short answer: not much, IMO. If you don't know my story, I had a D300 from Nov 2007-Oct 2009 when I had it stolen. I downgraded to a D90 but it didn't feel like much of a downgrade. In fact, as far as AF what I finally settled on with the D300 was using the center AF point 90% of the time because it was so blasted accurate and certain ones at the edges sometimes had trouble focusing accurately. I had the luxury of focusing and recomposing in portraiture, though, and I know that doesn't work for everything.
I would think that for landscapes the bigger issues would be cost differences, build differences (but I've used my D90 in light rain or snow with no issues), weight differences, and remote release considerations (cheaper for D90—sounds like you own the D90 remote, but you can get an RF release for D300s and lose the line of sight requirement). I may be missing something. You already know what the build is, though, since you own the D80. It's nearly identical to that, which my brother owns and I've used.
About your differences list, D90 also does HD video, though I think the implementation on the D300s is slightly better (I haven't tried it). D90 also does 3D tracking and while it's no slouch you just don't have the frame coverage the D300s has. I've taken pictures of my son running straight at me (~6mph 20 to 6 feet away) with 3D tracking at 3fps and it hit the focus on 4 out of 4 images, so not too shabby. I doubt I would have had that luck had he not been in the center of the frame, though, and maybe not if I was shooting at long focal lengths (this was at 60mm):
D90 AF test
D90 AF test 100% crop
edit: I thought of one more difference that might be important: 100% viewfinder coverage in the D300s. The viewfinder magnification is the same, but the D90 crops out a bit of what the sensor actually captures which could be important for landscapes. Liveview could help here.
Another thing to consider is my photography style.
I shoot a lot of architecture, panorama, landscape and use quite a bit of DOF and bokeh.
The extra FPS won't really assist me, as I don't shoot flying birds or sports.
These are lenses that I currently own.
Nikkor: 35mm f/1.8, 50mm f/1.8, 18-200 VR, Tamron 90mm f/2.8 and Tokina 11-16 f/2.8.
Here is a small sample of my style.
All great shots. I'm sure the D90 wouldn't disappoint, regulator. I think that tamron 90 macro is better than the nikkor 60mm macro (the only two I've tried) except for the fact that I don't -love- the tamron for non-macro work; I got strange color fringes around bright highlights. Having the 85 1.8 (my favorite portrait lens) to complement it would be a huge bonus and I think that outweighs the extra features you get from the D300s unless you don't like the feel of the smaller body of the D90. The bokeh of that 85 1.8 is really something else.
Lovely shots !
Another feature of the D300s that might grip you is the 14bit RAW, many will tell you that it does not make much difference, but it sure makes a difference if you have to recover shadows and blown highlights. 14bit RAW files also make it a lot easier to get rid of noise without losing detail. For landscapes the 14bit RAW can make your job a lot easier, since more detail is recorded.
IMO, if you have a D80 don't bother upgrading to the D90, its not a big enough jump. I had a D80 and upgraded to D90, it was a bit of a let down, so I sold the D90 and got the D300, huge jump, better camera all around. Metering is improved on the D300s as well, thanks to the higher end metering sensor. That said, if you shooting with spot and center weighted often, that really doesn't matter. As a landscape shoot you might also like the mirror lockup feature, it can really help for long exposures.
Yeah I say keep your D80 a while longer and wait for the D90 replacement. Judging from your photos a D90 or D300S won't make them any better. Unless you want to shoot video now :^)
Save your money.
yup, save Your money reg, and wait for next gen, Your pictures are great and IMHO new body will not improve them too much - I have both d200 (same sensor as in d80) and d90 and I see the difference only when I pass the 800iso border
Thanks everyone.
The thing is that I already sold my D80 to a friend of mine a two days ago.
I wasn't even thinking of upgrading until I learned that my friend wanted to take photography to the next level. She knew that I kept my gear in great shape and I also included the D80 field guide, tamrac bag and a new lens pen.
This all happened pretty quickly. I'd rather of waited for the D300s / D90 replacement body. But this isn't going to happen.
I think I'll go ahead and get the D90, grip and 85mm f/1.8 lens.
All that for less than the price of the D300s.
Thanks again everyone, I appreciate the input!
I am going to disagree. I had a D90 and cannot believe how much better the D300s performs. The D300s is a significantly better camera than the D90. They do not use the same sensor. The sensors are in the same family. The D300s sensor is faster at moving data which is needed for the high frame rate. The D90 sensor does have about 1/2 stop better low light performance but that is not enough to get excited about.
Where the D300s shines is in AF performance, meter performance, and in usability. It has more hard switches for settings you are likely to change often. It doesn't have those ridiculous Scene modes or an Auto mode. It has mirror lockup. It has a built-in interval timer. It has a dedicated AF-ON button. It has two card slots (SDHC and CF). It has 1/8000 sec shutter speed. It has weather sealing. It has multiple settings banks so you can store settings for different types of shooting. If you shoot HDR, it will do a 9 frame bracket versus 3 on the D90.
The D300s is an incredible camera. Again, in my view, much better than the D90 which is a very good camera too.
Scott
Regulator75 said:
Thanks everyone.The thing is that I already sold my D80 to a friend of mine a two days ago.
I wasn't even thinking of upgrading until I learned that my friend wanted to take photography to the next level. She knew that I kept my gear in great shape and I also included the D80 field guide, tamrac bag and a new lens pen.This all happened pretty quickly. I'd rather of waited for the D300s / D90 replacement body. But this isn't going to happen.
I think I'll go ahead and get the D90, grip and 85mm f/1.8 lens.
All that for less than the price of the D300s.Thanks again everyone, I appreciate the input!
Sounds like you made the right choice based on your usage. Enjoy the D90, its a great camera for the price.
You've got some great points, sidewinder. Welcome to the forum. PB PM, we've discussed it before ;-). It's not that I think the D90 is a better camera, but I do think that for some people it can be a better value. Everyone should look at the differences and see if the list is worth the extra money.
I totally agree Jonny, the D90 is a great value, just as the D80 and D70(s) were before that. For the average photographer, the D300s is overkill, but at the same time, if someone is asking why they should choose one over the other I'm not going to shy away from saying why I think the D300/D300s are better cameras than the D90.
PB PM,
There is no such thing as the "average photographer". We need to know how people will be using a camera to understand what camera may or may not be too much for them. I don't think we know enough about "Regulator75" from this thread to know if the D300s is too much camera. It may be. It may not be.
I think the D300s is ideal for the serious amateur. One thing to point out is that the D300s has many features the serious amateur doesn't know he could use, would use, and needs. The serious amateur would grow into the camera learning how to use these features and, in the process, expand his photographic toolbox.
The sensor is just one part of the package. Yes, the D90 can take pictures that look just as good as the D300s. But the D300s makes that a more productive process if you understand how to use it.
Scott
If you don't need video you should consider picking up a used D300 (not 's'), they tend to go for about $1000 now from what I've seen, just $200 more than a new D90.
sidewinder said:
PB PM,There is no such thing as the "average photographer". We need to know how people will be using a camera to understand what camera may or may not be too much for them. I don't think we know enough about "Regulator75" from this thread to know if the D300s is too much camera. It may be. It may not be.
I think the D300s is ideal for the serious amateur. One thing to point out is that the D300s has many features the serious amateur doesn't know he could use, would use, and needs. The serious amateur would grow into the camera learning how to use these features and, in the process, expand his photographic toolbox.
The sensor is just one part of the package. Yes, the D90 can take pictures that look just as good as the D300s. But the D300s makes that a more productive process if you understand how to use it.
Scott
Maybe I'm wrong here, but from what he showed us, he seems to primarily shoot still subjects (landscape and macro). The (valid) points you brought up in favor of the d300s I don't believe would nesc. help him;
"The D300s sensor is faster at moving data which is needed for the high frame rate"
-wouldn't help for landscape or macro, and as he said he doesn't shoot sports or wildlife
"Where the D300s shines is in AF performance, meter performance, and in usability."
-AF performance doesn't seem to be something he needs
-meter performance I think is something that may come in handy, but really I don't think justifies buying the 300s over the 90.
the only other possible thing you mentioned that seems like it would be a better feature for him would be the higher bracket amount (for hdr), but judging from his pictures he doesn't do that either.
also you called the scene modes ridiculous (and while most of us would probably agree) as he mentioned that would be something useful for when his wife wants to use the camera, so in this case it does affect things.
so while I think everything you said is correct, based on the information regulator did supply us with, I think the 300s might be a bit unesc. for him with the work he is currently doing.
sidewinder said:
There is no such thing as the "average photographer".
I strongly disagree. To me average photographer is a person who does not care about the technical aspects on the camera side, someone who just loves taking pictures and works within or around the limits of the camera they have on hand. My parents are great examples, they love taking pictures, but have no interest in the technical details of how the camera works, or what features they have. My mum takes great photos with a 5MP point and shoot camera, some of which would rival photos taken by a tech nerd with a D3X, who lacks the eye to take great photos. The camera can help you take better photos, but it wont make you take better photos, enough said.
I use a D300 because it helps me do what I want to do. I took the same kind of shots with my D80, but because I like having more control over how the camera takes a photo, I moved on to the D300. The "average photographer" by my definition, may not care about the control that I do.
PB PM said:
The "average photographer" by my definition, may not care about the control that I do.
I can agree with that. Also the "average photographer" will snapshoot more (or just compose and record a good image) instead of immersing in the setting and trying to portray a vision in the best way possible by painstakingly controling every aspect of the shot .
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