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d3s or d3x please advise

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Darek

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Hi everybody,

I am new to the forum and to the idea of using a Nikon for taking pictures. I currently own Canon 5d mark II, and although I am very pleased with the quality of the images, I note that this camera has certain shortcomings - notably a well known autofocus problem, especially for moving objects. Plus Nikons seem to be much more user friendly. I am an amateur, but serious about photography. It is unlikely that I will ever go pro, as I want to make movies instead, but I want to achieve image quality on par with professional photographers, and I work hard to do that. My personal preference is for pictures of moving objects and for very colorful images. I am a motorcyclist, mountain biker and windsurfer (hence the moving objects :), and naturally would like to take pictures of people doing what I love to do. I said "colorful images" because I love shooting in the Mediterranean, where colors are much more vivid then where I live now (i.e. Poland). Think about Venice in summer and you will have a good idea.

Having said all that I can hear you thinking - what on earth, the choice is obvious, go with D3s, and maybe stick with your Canon for portraits. Well, that's what I thought until I saw the quality of images from D3x, which I think is better than my Canon, it does not suffer from the autofocus problems (at least that's the common opinion) and is more user friendly. So I started to lean towards D3x. What worries me though is the fps rate and the potential need to compromise on image quality when doing so. So my questions are:

1. Do you think that D3s is a better choice for a person like me?
2. Do you think that it is true what i read, that D3s pictures are more film like whereas D3X are more "digital"?
3. If i wanted to print images that would be about A2 size (40x50 cm) would the D3s lower megapixel count be visible - i.e. worse detail rendition?

One final thing. I shoot with primes, so dust removal seems a good think to have, since I change my lenses very often.

If anyone of you have had an opportunity to go through similar questions and would like to take his time to share his/her thoughts, I would be very grateful.

Regards,

Darek

Posted 3 years ago #
NikoDoby

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Welcome to the forum Darek. Not sure I understand what exactly your needs are. Do you want to "make movies" and shoot HD video exclusively with your new camera or do you want fast fps for action shots? Either way the D3X is NOT the camera for you. The money is better invested in new Nikon lenses. 24mp is quickly starting to become the new "standard" so the D3X will soon look very overpriced, especially when all the rumored 32mp cameras start showing up.

There is also a rumor that an updated D3X will show up later this year. (D3XS?)
The D3S really doesn't compare to any other camera currently on sale. It's high ISO performance is simply unmatched. But it's 12mp is starting to look like a weak point. Especially if Nikon brings out a newer higher megapixel camera.

So why not wait to see what the D800/900 offers? This D700 replacement is either going to be a great performing 18mp general purpose camera, the perfect balance of high ISO and megapixels, or another 24mp high resolution Nikon. It is rumored to shoot HD video as well (1080p?). I would just wait and get a D800/900 (whatever Nikon decides to call it) and some more Nikon lenses rather than a D3S.

Posted 3 years ago #
Darek

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NikoDoby,

Thank you for the response. I don't want to shoot video with my prospective Nikon at all - when I said that I want to make movies I did so only to explain that this is my ultimate professional goal, instead of becoming a professional photographer. I guess I felt the need to explain why an amateur would like to buy such an expensive tool like either to these cameras :) I want fast fps and the ability to get things in focus. Movies are best filmed with 35 mm film cameras :)

What you say sounds like a good idea, but if D800 does not show up within the next two months, I may still be tempted to buy the d3s. I plan a couple of photographic trips in April/May (which will probably be to Venice and Marseille and windsurfing/mountain biking spots in their vicinity) and it would be great to have a good camera with me.

Thanks a lot again.

All the best,

Darek

Posted 3 years ago #
NikoDoby

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Hey Darek :^)

If you goal is to shoot video professionally someday then why spend so much on a still camera? I think a D700/DXXX camera will suit you more than a larger D3S or D3X. Unless you are on assignment a "pro" grade camera like the D1 series is not a good travel camera! Have you ever handled one? It is heavy and when you include various "pro" grade lenses you've got a very bulky package to carry around with you. Not to mention an attractive item for theft.

A DXXX camera should be all you need and investing in quality glass will put you in a good position to use your Nikkors for future video applications via an Fmount or adapters. Good luck with whichever you choose.

Posted 3 years ago #
jonnyapple

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I agree with Niko. Wait to see if anything gets announced. It sounds like you may have the budget to try the 5DII and D3s (or D700 or D900?) at the same time. That would give you a chance to see if you have the same autofocus problems with the nikon before switching out all your lenses. If it turns out that even the Nikon's autofocus system can't give you what you're looking for, you could just stay with the 5DII and sell the Nikon.

Posted 3 years ago #
NikoDoby

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jonnyapple said:
I agree with Niko. Wait to see if anything gets announced. It sounds like you may have the budget to try the 5DII and D3s (or D700 or D900?) at the same time. That would give you a chance to see if you have the same autofocus problems with the nikon before switching out all your lenses. If it turns out that even the Nikon's autofocus system can't give you what you're looking for, you could just stay with the 5DII and sell the Nikon.

What? No way! Nikon's AF is waay better than canon. No question about it. I just pulled my union's support of your bid for "presidnet!" jonny :^)

Posted 3 years ago #
jonnyapple

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NikoDoby said:
What? No way! Nikon's AF is waay better than canon. No question about it. I just pulled my union's support of your bid for "presidnet!" jonny :^)

I guess if Nikon releases a D900 with a D3x sensor for less than the D3s it will make the decision for him, then. I withdraw my nomination.

Posted 3 years ago #
jonnyapple

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Oh, and I meant to mention something about resolution. I've printed some shots at 16"x20" (40cm x50cm) from the D90 and D300 (both also 12MP). I think they look great.
edit: realized my initial size statement was wrong and corrected it. I should quantify 'great.' I can't see digitization unless I'm closer than about 10 inches (25 cm).

Posted 3 years ago #
herzel

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I just got my D3s and I LOVE IT. go get it don't wait for something to get announced specially if you shoot sport these camera is fast ..fast....fast...
don't worry about all the mp the 12.5mp is what keep all this picture from the D3s nice and clear and any ISO specially on 10000 and 12000 ISO and the pics are CLEAN,more mp you will have to clean lots of noise I don't know if you tried before to work with a big file from 24 mp with high iso (very frustrating) I tried it.
D3s is great camera if you have a use for it.

Posted 3 years ago #
adamz

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Czesc Darek,

I also think that Dxxx will be a better choice for Your needs. Indeed d3x renders pictures nicely, but in sports You need fps. As for AF speed I wouldn't bother, as any single camera in Nikon lineup ( d90&up) will do the job. If You are from Warsaw and want to try the speed of Nikon cameras with some Nikon glass on it please PM me.
Adam

Posted 3 years ago #
kanuck

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Welcome Darek to the forum. First off, do you really think you need all these cameras if you are not getting paid for your work? I mean the camera you already own is wonderful the 5d Mark II just like the original 5d was. I understand your thoughts regarding autofocus, but it sounds like overkill to have almost 10 grand worth of camera bodies. I also understand that it is nice to take images that can be compareable to the pros. However, wouldn't you rather just have one body and the best glass money can buy if you insist on spending the money?

This being said, if Nikon produces a D800, D900, D700X, D700s or whatever the next FX high mp, video option body thats due, I'll be purchasing it right away. Niko says wait and I agree with him. My original point is maybe reconsider having two high end bodies especially if you can get it all (mp, fast accurate focus, low light ability, solid noise control, sealed) in one camera. Just wait, and invest instead in pro lenses in the meantime.

Posted 3 years ago #
kanuck

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Maybe you are thinking about dropping the Mark II altogether and going with just the D3x or D3s or next new Nikon FX body? If so, waiting can't hurt, because a new body will drop the prices of both the D3x and D3s anyways.

Posted 3 years ago #
gd

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Joined: Sep '09
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Hi

IMO, if you have to ask ... then neither is suitable. These are high end, professional cameras which meet specific needs. Those with those needs know who they are. That is just my personal opinion so feel free to disagree ... there is no right or wrong on this one ;-)

It does seem strange that you are looking to get such an expensive camera when your aim is to shoot professional video (not using a camera) ... why not invest that money in high end video and get a less expensive camera. Ultimately it is the photographer that makes the shot and I don't see how you'll be losing out with either a D700 or D300s, especially if you are travelling as both are much more portable than a D3s or D3x, especially for the activities that you mention.

I realise that I seem to be in a minority on these types of forums but I prefer spending time on technique rather than money on cameras which in 12 months time someone will tell me needs an upgrade. If you are getting poor results from a D700 or D300s and top quality glass then (again IMO) it isn't the equipment that is at fault.

Good Luck with which ever camera you decide on and enjoy the trips you have lined up. They sound like great fun!

Cheers

Graham

Posted 3 years ago #
jonnyapple

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adamz said:
If You are from Warsaw and want to try the speed of Nikon cameras with some Nikon glass on it please PM me.
Adam

You're the bomb, adam.

Posted 3 years ago #
PacificEagle

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Darek, I'm in agreement with Niko about the you needing a DX camera. If your not looking to make money out of Photography, or trying to become a pro shooter then you have no need for a very epensive FX Body, the DX line of Nikon's should fit you just fine.
The D3s is a beast! and the D3x is the same. It's huge, heavy, and NOT a good travel camera. Place some professional glass on it, like the 24-70mm f2.8 or 70-200mm f2.8 or bigger and you better have at least a Mono Pod to put it on, or a really good gym membership.

I have the D3s and Niko is absolutely right when he says its not a good travel camera, and it sticks out like a thumb to theives.

I'd stick to the D300s if you want a higher frame rate, and a good camera for action in a DX format. The 1.5x crop factor is nice as well. I love my D300s, it is very versatile and works great with both FX and DX lenses, and is only around $1500, much more affordable which leaves you room in a budget for nice Glass.

Posted 3 years ago #
Darek

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Adam, thanks for the suggestion, I also live in Warsaw so it would be great to meet. I will send you a separate message soon.

As for the rest of you, I am very grateful for the time you committed to answer, and especially for the suggestion to wait for the new D 800 (or whatever it is going to be called).

I owe you a brief explanation on two points. First, I am quite satisfied with the quality of my pictures. In other words, I am not looking for a new camera in hope that it will improve my skills. I know it won't. However, I missed some "potentially" best pictures because of slow and unpredictable autofocus on my Canon. I regret to say that even my girlfriend's D 5000 seems to focus better than my Canon 5d mark II. This is really what prompted me to look at Nikon.

As for making movies - I see I confused many people, so let me explain. It is my plan to start producing/directing regular feature movies. Of course none of the dslr cameras is a suitable tool for that, nothing can match the look you get with a 35 mm film camera - or for some applications a 16 mm film camera. I mentioned movies because I wanted to explain that even though I am not a professional photographer, there is a good reason why I want to achieve top quality of my photos. I think one cannot aspire to make good movies and yet be mediocre at photography. That's also why I want to get very good equipment.

I must say I also considered D300s. I hesitate, because before buying Canon 5d mark II I owned Canon 40d, and for me and those who had seen my pictures "before" and "after" the quality of full frame pictures is just astonishing. If Nikon ever produced a full frame camera wrapped in a D300 body I would buy it instantly.

You are a very supportive bunch of people. I wish you all the best. If I end up buying a Nikon camera, I will surely let you know what my feelings are. BTW so far I think I am going to keep my Canon 5d Mark II. For some applications it is a great camera, and if you are fortunate enough to have the 85 mm 1.2 L lens in your line-up, then well... I know you all are Nikon believers, but the quality of portraits is great. However this combination seems to weights more than a D3s + 85 1.4 + a brick attached :) So it is not the best travel kit either.

All the best,

Darek

Posted 3 years ago #
NikoDoby

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Darek said:
If Nikon ever produced a full frame camera wrapped in a D300 body I would buy it instantly.

They already did Darek, it's called the D700 :^) So you just answered your own question and a D700 or it's replacement is the camera you are looking for.

And be careful meeting adamz. He only wants your D3X if you get one :^)

Posted 3 years ago #
kanuck

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Yes the Canon 5d Mark II is a fantastic camera from what I've heard its light as well just the focusing has annoyed people. My brother still loves his 5d^^

Posted 3 years ago #
adamz

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sure sure niko :)
but to be honest, I was looking once at used d3x for $5500 as it's amazing piece of hardware even for wildlife photographer, fortunately I put myself on the right track to get the lenses I want firstly (just three more :)) and than grab a pro body
nevertheless, if I could have unlimited amount of cash (or will get divorced:)) I'll probably go for the: d3s, d3x and d300s combination

Posted 3 years ago #
mb

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I have a very viable suggestion for you. Ditch your plastic Canon 5D and get D3x AND D3s with some serous glass, body is nothing without a glass. So here it is:
D3x 7000$
D3s 5000$
14-24 1800$
24-70 1800$
70-200 2000$
17600$ give or take, add a couple of thousands for flashes, tripods and other bear necessities and you are ready to go, even A0 prints would be a mouse for you.

Posted 3 years ago #
NikoDoby

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mb said:
I have a very viable suggestion for you. Ditch your plastic Canon 5D and get D3x AND D3s with some serous glass, body is nothing without a glass.

Plastic?! The 5D series is a metal body.

Posted 3 years ago #
kanuck

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Niko the 5D is mostly plastic making it very light. It is also not sealed. Parts of the body are metal. The original 5D reminds me of the Nikon D80. The new 5D Mark II is also mostly plastic and not sealed. I hate Canon's rear wheel dial also and the even worse small dial for zooming in and out on an image...Again my brother swears by his and gave up on Nikon after a weekend shooting his old 5D. Not me though! ^_~

Posted 3 years ago #
NikoDoby

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Mostly plastic?!? The body is made out of magnesium alloy! It is also "dust and water resistant". It does have seals they just aren't very good. The Rebels are mostly plastic.

http://a.img-dpreview.com/reviews/CanonEOS5DMarkII/Images/bodyinwhite.jpg

http://a.img-dpreview.com/reviews/CanonEOS5DMarkII/Images/seals.jpg

Why would you guys think it's mostly plastic?

Posted 3 years ago #
mb

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Exoskeleton is plastic; the build quality is more like D90 then D300 or D700.

Posted 3 years ago #
NikoDoby

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Plastic exoskeleton?! What are you talking about? Look it's not that I'm a Nikon fan boy 99% of the time but you are just wrong mb. The body is magnesium alloy and that is a metal not a plastic. The only thing that's plastic on the 5D series body is the memory card/battery doors and the buttons. The Nikon D90 is ALL plastic and has NO weather seals of any kind. The 5D series is not plastic, LOL.

I would love it if Nikon made a D90 with a metal body and seals but at that price range the only option is the canon 50D or the soon to be announced 60D. Even Pentax has the metal bodied and sealed K7! I use a 5Dmk2 and although it has it's faults it's body is much more rugged than the very nice plastic of the D90,lol.

Posted 3 years ago #

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d3s or d3x please advise

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