D800 - to buy or not to buy - Hipe

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D800 - to buy or not to buy - Hipe

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kazbatus

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I'm a newbie in pro cams. But my parents will help me to buy D800 soon (unfortunately on my 18th, next spring).
Sope I do have couple questions. Sorry if they are kinda dummy ;)

1. What's the difference btw D800 & D800E? Does E version worth it?
2. Which lenses I should buy for first time? (Something universal)
3. Should I buy right now or should I wait any rebate/discount? (since cam is quite pricy for me)
4. Should I go for refurbished one?
5. If you do have any discount coupon, gift card, advice or anything which might be helpful for me, please send on ***E-MAIL REMOVED***

Yap, thanks indeed for all your help.

kazbatUS

Posted 6 months ago #
captainelmo

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Just saying but if you are asking this kind of question a D800 is kinda out of your league. Perhaps if you need FF with video you could get a D600. If you are hell bent on the D800 here goes.
1. E version has a modified anti aliasing filter which means that images are sharper(not that obvious unless you NEED that extra detail) but are more prone to false colour and aliasing on repeating patterns
2. By universal do you mean zoom range or by your needs? I ask this because I consider my 'universal' range to be between 16-85( 24-120 in FF) with anything longer to be in extraordinary cases only while by zoom range there is the 28-300 which performs relatively well on the D800 but there are better lenses. I would think a 24-120 and the trio of f/1.8 primes to be a good starting point with a 300/4 as a tele lens
3. If you are in the US I believe there is a rebate on now. I do not know in other countries whether there are rebates
4. If you can buy a few more lenses and the camera is in good condition with the latest firmware and no issues I am sure then refurb is a good buy

Posted 6 months ago #
sevencrossing

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Congratulations you are a very lucky chap

My dad bought me a S/H Leica for my 18th , it was my best present ever ( that was a long time ago)

The D800 E is for specialist needs, you do not need one, just get a D800

Refurbished Nikon's have a good reputation, so yes, save some money if this allows you to buy some extras

Nikon's best universal lens is the 24 -120 f 4 zoom, despite having 4 other Nikon lens, I use it for 75 % of my shots

you should also look at getting a SB 910 and a really good tripod

after using the 24 -120 f4 for a few months, you will discover what other lenses you might like

eg a macro; a ultra wide angle ; a super telephoto and may be a f 1.4 prime but unless your parents are throwing money at you , don't buy them now

Posted 6 months ago #
spraynpray

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You may find your parents will need to buy you a new computer if you go with the D800 due to it having HUGE files. The D600 and the accessories seven suggested is better at your stage of knowledge.

Posted 6 months ago #
sevencrossing

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I agree a powerful computer is essential to any one taking up photography seriously
but the D600 files are not exactly small

my friends told Dad I did not need a Leica, thankfully, he ignored them

the D800 is one of the best cameras in the world the D600 is not in same league

Posted 6 months ago #
adamz

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@kazbatus - for Your own safty I've removed Your e-mail and changed the topic

Posted 6 months ago #
msmoto

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As a question has been asked about a new camera purchase....I can only repond with what I think is the most honest answer.

1) Read Nikon Rumors For a while, reading the threads found by searching for "which camera".

2) Enroll in a photography course at a local community college...beginners level.

3) Purchase a D800 with a 24-70mm f/2.8 lens, or with one or more of the following single focal length lenses, called "primes." 50mm f/1.4, 24mm f/1.4, 105mm f/2.8 VR.

So, this is a purchase of from USD $4000-5000. If you are not able to afford this, and you are apparently new to photography using pro cameras, my suggestion would be to purchase one of the less expensive Nikons, which we call DX or cropped sensor, or APS-C sensor cameras. Next spring Nikon will have several new camera iterations out. The D7000 update will no doubt be one of the best, possibly a D400. The important suggestion remains, however, to attend a photo instruction course and learn all you can about the entire process. Pressing the shutter is only a very small part of producing a good photograph.

Posted 6 months ago #
donaldejose

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A D800 seems a bit much for an 18 year old who is "new to pro cams."

Please define what you mean by a "pro cam." Do you mean a digital DSLR? Nikon makes a lot of these starting with a D3200, D5100 and soon to be released D5200. The D7200 and D400 will be released early next year. Or do you mean a D4, D800, D800e, D300, D300s type camera body (they are larger and built more robust and have some different control buttons)?

What do you mean by a "universal" lens? What type of photography do you want to shoot with this "universal" lens?

I suggest you look at the Picture of the Day thread on Nikon Rumors and notice all the different Nikon cameras used. Some of those cameras are so old now they can be purchased on ebay for about $250 and yet they still take great photos for PAD. I own a D800 but just recently took my old D70 and D90 cameras out to shoot photos for PAD. I have been deliberately shooting photos for PAD with old Nikon cameras so less experienced viewers will realize they don't really need a D4 or D800 even though they see so many photos produced by those cameras. I am trying to create more balance. To give you an example of the huge file sizes produced by a D800 you have to realize that a PAD photo contains about 0.5 megapixels because that is all PAD will display. A D800 sensor has 36 megapixels, which is 35.5 more than can be displayed on PAD. Consequently, any D800 photo you see on PAD has been drastically reduced in size. A high resolution computer monitor or a 55 in HDTV can display only about 2 megapixels, which is 34 megapixels less than the D800 sensor. Thus, any D800 photo you view on your computer monitor or HDTV has to be drastically reduced in size to be able to view it. So my question is this: Why do you think you need all those 36 megapixels in the D800 sensor? What do you plan to use them for? If you are going to make 8x10, 11x14 or 16x20 or 13x19 prints all you need is 6 to 12 megapixels. A $250 used D70 has 6 megapixels. A $500-800 used D90 has 12 megapixels. A new D3200 with "kit" (universal?) lens costs $700 and has a 24 megapixel sensor. Make sure you really have a need for a $3,000 D800 body and $2,000 zoom lenses before you ask your parents to pay those prices.

Posted 6 months ago #
chris_weinert

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"Hey everyone,

I'm a newbie with cars (currently getting my driver's licence), but my parents will get me a Maserati for my 18th soon. So I have a couple of questions:

1. What's the difference between manual shift and automatic?
2. Which engine should I get (something universal)?
3. Should I get the car second hand or new, so I can configure it to my needs?
4. What tyres should I get? I heard the Dunlop XP Sport that come with it are not good for high speed turns when it's raining? I heard that pros can gain up to 0.4 seconds per lap with the Continental Vmax Integral in rain."

This is not to make fun of you or something, but this is what your query sounds like to most people in here. In all the answers, you could already read some points, all true.

I just picked the example above to illustrate you that "more expensive" won't give you "better" or well "better for your needs":

A D800 is a very nice camera, indeed, but "nice" depends on what you want to do with it as much as a Maserati might be a "nice" car for you. If you want to use it to drive your friends and/or family around and be able to load your drumset to take it to a venue, it's not exactly first choice. Same with cameras: Keep in mind that the lighter a camera is, the more likely you'll take it with you as much as possible. 300 grams make a *huge* difference when you have to carry it all day. Cameras like the D3200 or (soon) D5200 are a lot lighter than a D800, and nowadays have pristine image quality, too. The "professional" and expensive 24-70 f/2.8 Zoom weighs a lot! Will you see the difference? Will it make a difference for your photography? I don't think so.

If you want to get nice MPG, a Maserati is not such a great idea, either. When you get a camera, the file size will need a corresponding computer, as spraynpray suggested. It may be not so important in the beginning, but once you start processing more and more pictures in Lightroom or Aperture, you will get annoyed soon.

Concerning tyres, are you really gonna go racing with it? Or do you use it for driving on the streets, and sometimes want to be a bit more "sporty" with your driving? Then, rain tyres for racing are a bad idea, because they suck for cruising in the sunshine and mean your braking distance will be much higher. Then again: Where do you live, does it rain a lot? Or do you live on a race track? Same goes for lenses: No one here knows, and since you're a beginner, neither do you know what you want to do with the camera. Just like with driving, you will first need to develop a "feel" for what you actually want to shoot. Get a standard cheap (but in Nikon's case: good) zoom first, and use it. It won't take you too long to realize what you're shooting, where the limitations are that you want to eliminate. Always want to go wider? Always want to go longer? Never using the mid range? Always ending up using mid range? Want that nice shallow depth of field? Keep on shooting. In a couple of months, you're gonna know what you *really* need, and not what others (including us here) are figuring you might want.

And, most of all, as msmoto said: Learn to drive first! Have someone show you how to drive best if you are driving around a VIP, and how to drive best when you want to take that turn on the race course as fast as possible. Do that photography course. And buy a good photography book. The technical parameters (aperture, ISO, time, focal length) are quite easy to learn, but someone has to give you an idea what the difference is when you take a portrait of someone with a 35mm or a 200mm, for example.

Good luck,
Chris

Posted 6 months ago #
shawnino

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First/foremost figure out what you want to shoot.

I have a D800E and it's a hell of a camera that serves me well in multiple situations. But if I was interested primarily in street photography I would have bought something lighter (note I didn't say necessarily cheaper). If I was primarily interested in sports photography I'd have bought something with more FPS. If everything I shot was in poor light, I'd likely bite the bullet and buy a D4.

What do you want to shoot? The 800 and 800E are absolutely top-end for generalists, but would not be the first choice (or perhaps even the fifth choice) of certain specialists.

Posted 6 months ago #
sevencrossing

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msmoto said:
1) Read Nikon Rumors For a while, reading the threads found by searching for "which camera".

I think, there are in fact, over 100 "which camera" threads, so this is easier said than done. In many of them, we rapidly go off topic

shawnino said:
First/foremost figure out what you want to shoot.

As an 18 year old I wanted to shoot everything and that has not changed. As you say, the D800 a hell of a camera. It should serve kazbatus well in multiple situations

Posted 6 months ago #
TaoTeJared

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1. Next spring is a long time away - in camera terms.
2. Consider you will spend about $3,000 above the cost of a D800 for accessories, lenses, flashes.
3. Computer - you need to also get a external 1TB drive at least to start and have an i5 intel processor with a min of 8gb of ram. If not, you will want to think about a new computer as well.
4. You will also need software - Many of us use Adobe Lightroom 4 and Photoshop. New full versions are $130 & $650 or about $250 for a non-upgrade-able student version.
5. FX lenses are about 60% higher for FX due to there are few that are non-pro versions.

The cost of a D800 is much, much higher than just the camera. Starting out, it will be easily north of $5,000-$7,000 if you do not have the existing set-up to support it.

By next spring, a D7100 will be out and possibly a D400. Honestly I think that would be a better starting path than reaching for the moon and then not having enough for the trip back home. DX quality will be as good as the first generation FX sensors and the cost of glass is less which will give you the ability to pick up and try different lenses as you grow into photography.

There is nothing wrong with DX sensors. Believe it or not, some pros are actually moving to m4/3rds systems for personal (non-work) cameras because they achieved a quality that makes them viable. DX is just that much better. The key starting out is to get a system that you will use all the time. If you get something that is too large for you to want to carry it everywhere, you are doing yourself a disservice.

Posted 6 months ago #
msmoto

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Just as emphasis on what TTJ has stated, here is a Micro 4/3rd sensor, Olympus E-PL2 at 3000px on Flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fantinesfotos/8106412181/sizes/o/in/photostream/

Posted 6 months ago #
kazbatus

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First of all everybody thankxxx ;))) Here is some of my thoughts:
1. Since this will be my first Ful frame dslr. Iwill go for D800; (I already have d7000)
2. By universal I was thinking bout 28-300, but I will probably shot a lot of people in a “portrait” mode; I have decided to buy 24.120! (I hope this lens can afford all 36 Mpx, & nature). 24-70 is too expensive.
3. I’m in IL, windy city. And this 9% sales tax pisses me off. That’s way I’ll go for e-stores. How do you think is e-bay good place for buying FX DSLR????
4. I will by one lens for first half year. I have been saving for this cam around 10 month. (Difference will covered by my dad)
5. I have already quite powerful retina laptop
6. I want to make and print pictures on the wall of my dorm (3*6 or 5*12ft etc.)
7. Also I’ll go for college next year and as a photographer I’m going to make “friendship” with all chicks around. ;)))))))))))

P.S. I hope there is “chef-d'oeuvre” button on D800 ))))) And yes I will read this forum.
In couple years probably, I can make money with this cam)))
And I have found refurbd D800 body on e-bay for 2499

PPS Oh yeah I will think twice with this d7100 )))

Posted 6 months ago #
kazbatus

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yo! just one more question.
How do you think in price category should I buy d800 now or should I wait untill spring/summer 2013???

cause I have d7000 already.

My bright idea is just to save some extras ))).

Posted 6 months ago #
sevencrossing

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Buy it now and learn how to use all the menus, buttons and dials
Ready for a chick frendy summer

Posted 6 months ago #
donaldejose

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kazbatus: You want to use your photography to make "chicks" look beautiful and therefore like you for doing that for them? Look at Jim Maxwell's website and the photos he produces. He tells me he makes lots of women look beautiful and they love him for it. Sounds like he is what you hope to be. Last year I asked him what equipment he uses and he told me he uses a D7000 with the 18-200 zoom lens most of the time. Not such exotic equipment to produce quite exotic images. You probably already own equipment equal to his, except you don't have the studio or the environment he can use for backgrounds. He may be shooting with something different this year but I recognize lots of the photos on his website as ones he shot years ago with his D7000 and 18-200 lens. Notice he is shooting with Picture Controls on Vivid and not on Portrait.

http://www.jimmaxwellphotography.com/

By the way, if you look at the sample images of the 24mp sensor in the D5200 which Nikon just posted you will see that the 24mp DX sensor is quite capable of producing very nice poster size prints. Last year I produced poster size prints from my D7000 sensor which people thought had been commercial posters purchased from a store. Nikon's new 24mp DX sensor should be better than the 16mp sensor in the D7000. This year I made very sharp poster size prints from just one third of a D800 image. I found you really don't need a D800 for poster size prints. While I have a D800 I do find processing those huge files to be a pain (I have a quad core processor with 6 mbytes of RAM) and I am looking forward to buying/using a D7200 when it comes out. Two days ago I went out to shoot the countryside in early morning light primarily for PAD and grabbed my D90 (passing up my D800, D600 and D7000). Why? Because I wanted to post process 12 megapixel images, not 16 or 24 or 36 because of the extra time involved. PAD only displays about a 0.5 megapixel image in the first place. Using a D800 or D600 for PAD images is just wasting time doing extra post processing.

Posted 6 months ago #
proudgeek

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Wow, donaldjose, good thing I work from home. I did get a kick out of the last shot in his black and white sequence. The setting looked familiar. :)

Posted 6 months ago #
donaldejose

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Jim does very good work and he seems to attract some amazing clients. We should all be so fortunate.

Posted 6 months ago #
Eric

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@kazbatus - The D800 is great camera, but if the 28-300 is the lens you want to use, don't buy a D800. In comparison to the better lenses, the 28-300 is soft and has poor contrast. The 24-120 is probably your best bet. My favorite D800 lens is currently either the 24-70 or 14-24.

Some folks think that all of those pixels on the D800 allow you to crop severely and still get ultra-sharp photos... What those pixels really do is magnify every little mistake you make. In order to actually extract the full IQ available from a D800 you need the very best glass, a super stiff tripod etc.

I think that if you can afford it, it is nice to have the best equipment you can get. Having said that, I wonder if the better camera for you wouldn't be the D4. Removing price from the equation, the D4 is a more versatile camera than the D800. Yes, it 'only' has 16mp, but the high frame rate and pixel level low light capability offer a tremendous advantage. If your image is properly framed 16mp is fine for any reasonable enlargement you can envision; and I mean up to 60 x 40 inches. I am certain that you will have more opportunities to use the high frame rate and low light capabilities of the D4 than you will have to use the 36mp of the D800.

If money does matter, then get the D600 and better glass. The D600 sensor is as good as the D800s, but at 24mp you get a more reasonable image size and higher FF frame rate.

If you have your heart set on a D800, then go for it. If you really want the 28-300, it may serve you well. Just don't let the allure of "the most megapixels" or "greatest zoom range" take you away from what will give you the most for your needs.

Posted 6 months ago #
warprints

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Seven - when your dad bought you that Leica, it was probably state of the art for a number of years. A D800 will be superceeded and somewhat outdated by the time the OP learns photography. Buying a D800 to "learn" photography is like buying a Z06 Corvette for a kid to "learn" how to drive.

Posted 6 months ago #
sevencrossing

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warprints said:
Seven - when your dad bought you that Leica, it was probably state of the art for a number of years.

In fact in a few years the Leica was replaced but SLR and in 2 years time I was using a Nikon F.

Ok if kazbatus is on a budget I would recommend a S/H D700 but not a D600

If kazbatus wants to make money from photography, he needs a camera that will blow the soaks off the competition and that camera is the D800

Lewis Hamilton did not learn on drive on an old banger

just my humble opinion

Posted 6 months ago #
warprints

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sevencrossing said:
Lewis Hamilton did not learn on drive on an old banger

No, he first had a radio controlled car, then his dad bought him a Kart. Even Hamilton did not start his career with an F1 car.

Posted 6 months ago #
chris_weinert

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donaldejose said:
kazbatus: You want to use your photography to make "chicks" look beautiful and therefore like you for doing that for them? Look at Jim Maxwell's website and the photos he produces. He tells me he makes lots of women look beautiful and they love him for it. Sounds like he is what you hope to be.

http://www.jimmaxwellphotography.com/

This has got to be one of the first professional photographer's websites I've seen where, when you click on "Beauty", you don't get beauty. Wow, I don't think I've ever seen so many ugly pictures in one place. At least the "Body" category isn't named "Erotic Art".
But I guess there's a target group for everything.

Chris

Posted 6 months ago #
donaldejose

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chris_weinert: Yes, Jim Maxwell's use of strong color is too much for many people: it makes the photos "pop" though. I was surprised to learn he shot people on VIVID Picture Controls setting. Take a look at his black and white work if you feel the color is too intense. As to his "target group," it is young women who want to turn heads; not what many photographers would consider fine art.

As for a D800 used by a college student who most likely will be editing and storing photos on a laptop, I predict he will grow tired of post processing those huge files and will soon run out of hard drive storage space. Better get a fast laptop with a large hard drive and lots of RAM and still better get an external hard drive for storage space.

Posted 6 months ago #