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Nikon blasphemy

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snaketail

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This will probably get me kicked off the site, but here goes.

This is a general complaint to Nikon. I have been a loyal user of Nikon cameras since the mid 1960s. I had a long career as a photojournalist and used Nikons when everyone else was switching to Canon. I carried Nikons from Viet Nam up to the first Gulf War and currently use the top of the line Nikon digital. But – I gotta tell ya I’m worried about the future of this company.

All the new photojournalist use Canon cameras. They shoot both still and video with the same camera. Movie makers are using Canons, high school kids are using Canons, and 50% of my students are using Canons (35% Nikon and 10% Olympus, 5% “Other”).

Recently I had a job interview with Olympus who started the discussion by saying they intend to knock Nikon into 3rd place. They intend to do this by offering the consumer public cameras they want – easy to use, lots of options, in-camera vibration control, and lenses with better zoom ranges. Generally, they asked the public what the wanted and made products to fit the need. (And no, I didn’t get the job.)

My wife wants a Canon G11, I want her to get the new Olympus P-E 2 or the Panasonic DMC GF1…but why not a Nikon??? No competing products!

I really hope that Nikon has something in the wings, something none of us have thought of that will blow the competition away. I don’t want to have the #3 camera. I want to shoot HD video with my full frame Nikon camera and I want a 2nd camera I can carry with my when the big DSLR is too much.

I don’t know if Nikon ever reads this stuff – but, “HEY GUYS, YOU’RE LOSING GROUND TO INFERIOR PRODUCTS.” I’m well aware that professional photographers are only a small fraction of the camera market, but it would be nice if you threw us a bone ever now and then.

I’m too heavily invested in Nikon gear to switch, but if I were just starting out I might be looking elsewhere.

Posted 3 years ago #
NikoDoby

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Nikon doesn't do things spontaneously. They do it when they have a great product that is ready. I used an E-P1 recently and was very disappointed in the auto focus. Very sluggish. Nikon doesn't want to make similar products than everyone else. They want to make them better! So give them time. Remember when their flagship cameras were all DX and everyone complained Nikon sucked because they had no full frame, and then the D3, D3S, D3X, and D700 came to the party and all hell broke lose :^)

I have faith in Nikon and so should all of you! :^)

Posted 3 years ago #
soap

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snaketail said:
All the new photojournalist use Canon cameras.

Is this a belief or do you have a citation?

snaketail said:
in-camera vibration control

Which can not move the sensor nearly as far as VR/IS can move the image.

snaketail said:
I don’t want to have the #3 camera.

Are you saying you don't want to have the #3 camera brand? If so how does Nikon's sales figures affect the product?
Or are you saying you don't want to carry a third camera? If that then I concede the point.

Posted 3 years ago #
adamz

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Why do You think this post will make You kicked off this site. You have Your own point of view, and You stated it. I doubt that Oly will make to number 2, not in this decade at least (or do they have sth in their pocket to blow our minds), moreover I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of this decade oly will be a part of panasonic or some other BIG company.
As for Nikon line up, well... it's not perfect but IMHO they deliver more than any other company on the market. Have You played with Sony prosumer cameras? They suck a lot. Oly... the speed of AF in EP-1 is well under expectations. Panasonic - GF1 is a great piece of hardware, especially with 20mm pancake and I would love to have a camera like that in Nikon lineup. Pentax ... do they still exist? Canon, only one serious competitor on the market nowadays, nice - wide - line up of lenses, accessories and bodies but apart from the amateur line the pro line is target towards little bit different professionals then the Nikon pro lineup.
As for the amateur bodies, show me better body (in the $500 range) than Nikon d5000, advanced amateurs - is there any better camera for them than d90? the real competition starts above that. d300 vs can 7d, d700 vs 5dmkII (although target towards different customers). So the only hole in the Nikon lineup is the micro 4/3, and hopefully this will be changed this year.

Posted 3 years ago #
adamz

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welcome back Niko, we missed You here!

Posted 3 years ago #
astrophotographer

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I've sometimes felt like you. But after watching Nikon for a few decades I believe their philosophy is to be best not first. With a few exception, when they release a product (OK ignore their P&S cameras a moment) it just plain good. A case in point, the D3 and D300. I think Canon was ahead until they arrived. And bam... a leap over anything else at the time. Now the cycle returns. Canon has the 7D et al. with more MPs while Nikon users moan. But now rumors of a new camera. i bet it'll knock Canon again.

Meanwhile 4/3 cameras are the hot item these days. And we know Nikon is actively developing a similar camera and lenses. It may not come to market for business reasons, but if it does Nikon will wait to get it right first.

All this reminds me of the apple product cycle:
http://www.misterbg.org/AppleProductCycle/

Posted 3 years ago #
NSXType-R

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I don't want an EP-1, maybe not even an EP-2 if it means I must sacrifice autofocus speed.

I don't want a GF-1 if they won't give me VR in camera.

I don't want any 4/3 camera if it means I need new lenses.

And who cares if Nikon is 3rd as long as they make products I want? There has to be a certain number of people that are happy with Pentax, and they're nowhere near number 1.

And if I were to switch, I'd probably go Pentax, because they won't go switching lens mounts on me anytime soon.

Posted 3 years ago #
NikoDoby

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Hey thanks for the welcome back adamz! I missed you guys too, well maybe not you alphanikonrex :^)

Posted 3 years ago #
alphanikonrex

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I take back my welcome on the other thread :^(

Posted 3 years ago #
NikoDoby

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I'm kidding alpha! I especially missed you...kinda :^)

Posted 3 years ago #
Willis

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1st to market doesn't seem to get you much in the camera world. I guess its because people have such a large investment in glass, flashes, etc.

That's probably why Nikon didn't get much love for being first to market w/ video. Doing something effectively tends to be better than doing something quickly.

I'll admit that I've been lusting after the M4/3 cameras for a while now. But with all the performance issues that the first ones had, I'm quite happy to wait until a solid option comes along (preferably with an F-Mount).

Posted 3 years ago #
ChrisLange

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in my opinion, Nikon should ditch everything except their mid range to high end DSLRs, cut everything from the D5000 and down off, and focus on making really, really great professional cameras. With any luck, it'd be just like 1970s again.

Of course that will never happen, but I say let Canon and Olympus/others take care of the 13 year old D40 wannabes, and Nikon can focus on delivering really high level cameras for the journalism and high-end still imaging fields..

At this point in time, if someone handed me 2500 dollars for photo gear, I wouldn't even consider a D300s, or D700, I'd put it straight into either a Leica M4P, a Fuji G670 or 680 series, or a Mamiya 7II.

Posted 3 years ago #
shivaswrath

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I think the OP has a myopic view.

The pro's I've spoken with that currently USE Canon and haven't switched to Nikon actually use their OLDER bodies (40D, 5D Mark II's, 1DMark 2's and 3's) because the newer AF systems are so OFF. So Not sure about the converts if their newer bodies suffer from some many focusing issues.

That's why Canon is touting the 1DMark 4's AF so much - it'll hopefully recapture the pro's that are disgusted with current offerings.

Sure, at the P&S level, Canon and Pansonic are making great offerings. . .but you will be hard pressed to find Olympus debunking Nikon anytime soon. . .the ease of use, quality optics, and accurate AF/metering will keep them in the top tier for years to come. . .

Posted 3 years ago #
tai

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@chrislange - the profit from the D5000 down is probably a big chunk of their R&D budget. Plus, if new photogs get started on another company's low-end gear, they'll go to that company's high-end gear so they don't have to throw out the lenses/flashes/accessories they've already bought. What's good for Nikon's bottom line is important for the high end, though I feel your pain when it seems like Nikon is focusing on other areas.

Posted 3 years ago #
Gentoo

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tai said:
@chrislange - the profit from the D5000 down is probably a big chunk of their R&D budget. Plus, if new photogs get started on another company's low-end gear, they'll go to that company's high-end gear so they don't have to throw out the lenses/flashes/accessories they've already bought. What's good for Nikon's bottom line is important for the high end, though I feel your pain when it seems like Nikon is focusing on other areas.

For Nikon to abandon their lower end models would be suicidal. In the 1970's, shooting with SLR's was a niche field. That's not the case now. DSLR's are now part of everyday life and people looking to buy one are not going to drop 15 to 1900 dollars on one. That's the consumer market and those models likely sell more are the consumer market is always larger than pro markets in any field. Should Nikon drop their entry level market and leave it to Canon to provide that level, sales will plummet and Nikon will lose money.

Posted 3 years ago #
Willis

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Yeah... I don't agree w/ that strategy at all.

Nikon could abandon the P&S market except despite being lousy cameras, they appear to sell really well... Go figure.

Posted 3 years ago #
Gentoo

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Willis said:
Yeah... I don't agree w/ that strategy at all.

Nikon could abandon the P&S market except despite being lousy cameras, they appear to sell really well... Go figure.

P&S are simply very easy to market. The person who buys P&S (who are perhaps the majority of the camera market) knows nothing at all about cameras. All you have to do is throw MP's at them with a so many times optical zoom and some cool gimmicky features and they're sold.

Posted 3 years ago #
Willis

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mmm... Movie projecter in my Camera.... sweet!

Posted 3 years ago #
Gentoo

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There you go. Shoot the movie on your D90 then show it on your coolpix lol

Posted 3 years ago #
adamz

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I don't mind to have a portable projector with me, also from economical point of view, if P&S division is making any profit than it's not reasonable to shut them down.

Posted 3 years ago #
NikoDoby

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Nikon's best selling cameras are COOLPIXes. Despite what we all like, the COOLPIX line is where Nikon gets a big chunk of it's money.

Posted 3 years ago #
DigitalDarrell

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ChrisLange said:
in my opinion, Nikon should ditch everything except their mid range to high end DSLRs, cut everything from the D5000 and down off, and focus on making really, really great professional cameras. With any luck, it'd be just like 1970s again.

Of course that will never happen, but I say let Canon and Olympus/others take care of the 13 year old D40 wannabes, and Nikon can focus on delivering really high level cameras for the journalism and high-end still imaging fields..

At this point in time, if someone handed me 2500 dollars for photo gear, I wouldn't even consider a D300s, or D700, I'd put it straight into either a Leica M4P, a Fuji G670 or 680 series, or a Mamiya 7II.

The Nikon D40 and D60 seemingly sold over one million cameras. That's a lot of 13-year-olds. I think Nikon is smart as a whip!

Posted 3 years ago #
Devilsyam

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DigitalDarrell said:
Nikon doesn't do things spontaneously. They do it when they have a great product that is ready!

Hmm think that was Triumph motorcycles theory,(and they went bust) but it's hard to catch a horse when it's bolted..

and for wot it's worth i had a canon g9 loved it and when i'd outgrown it i went d5000

Posted 3 years ago #
astrophotographer

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snaketail said:
This will probably get me kicked off the site, but here goes.

...

Complaining about Nikon here is popular sport, so that will never get you kicked out.

But if you were to complent Canon, well... ;-)

Posted 3 years ago #
ChrisLange

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I know they need to maintain their bottom line, I just wish users of certain types of equipment (prime lenses, rangefinders) weren't left out in the cold by Nikon. The Nikon SP was a fantastic camera, and it's a shame it hasn't been updated to a digital counterpart with modernised lenses as well. What about focusing on build quality over useless features like the D3000's stupid guide mode? I tried using a classmate's D60 the other day and put it down within 20 minutes to switch for my Nikkormat FT2. The fact that a 40 year old camera is easier, more intuitive, and faster to use than a 2 year old camera is a crying shame. We need an innovative new body design incorporating both analog input via knob, as well as digital visual feedback in the viewfinder (or some permutation thereof), not just better sensors.

Posted 3 years ago #