Hi there,
I'm taking the plunge and buying my very first D-SLR. I have access to Nikon lenses, so Nikon is the obvious choice. Although I enjoy photography very much, the fact that D-SLR now have a movie function has seriously piqued my interest. I'm a budding filmmaker and shallow depth of field and interchangeable lenses that don't cost in excess of $10 000 is like a dream come true.
Now, the issue is: Shall I splash out now and go for the D90 with the 18-200 VRII: I like that it's fairly small, under $1600 for a nice package, I like samples I see on vimeo, I have had a chance to play with it and I have effectively fallen in love with it. I prefer it to the D300s samples I've seen
However: the lack of mic input is seriously annoying and the fact that it's First Gen is slightly worrying.
What do you reckon? Shall I go for it now, or so you think it's worth waiting a few months if there's an upgrade?
Please help, it's doing my head in.
DSLR cinematography
(23 posts) (9 voices)-
Posted 3 years ago #
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at that level (D90) it is very unlikely to have an upgrade for many months. So its probably good to buy now.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Seeing as the D300s has virtually the same video as the D90, I would personally get the D90 and spend that 600-700 dollar premium and buy an actual camcorder. I have also considered getting a D300s, but I cannot justify spending that much money if all you want is the ability to autofocus in movie mode (which is very slow to begin with) and the ability to connect an external mic to the camera.
Unless you plan on filming still objects without moving your camera, the video mode on any of these DSLR's will leave you with something to be desired.
Here's my biggest gripes about it:-If you want to film action, plan on buying a steadicam or using some other stabilizing device.
-Like I mentioned before, the D300s has such a slow autofocus in movie mode that a lot of times its faster to manually focus. Only problem with this is that Live View does not have a rangefinder to let you know when you're in focus, and manually focusing will shake your camera a bit.
-I do not recommend filming at a telephoto distance unless you are on a tripod, and are filming in a non windy area because even the slightest movement will be very noticeable once you see it on the computer.
-There's also the annoyance of having to always push down the AE-L (hold) button whenever you film the video or else the camera will auto expose throughout the entire recording.
- 5 minute recording limit in HD can get annoying
- After around 20-30 minutes of continuous recording (depends on how hot it is outside), the Live View system will begin to overheat, and will only allow you to record 30 seconds at a time. You'll have to wait about 15 minutes for it to cool down before you can start recording at the 5 minute limit again.
- You can't switch apertures in movie mode. You have to exit live view first, switch the aperture, and then go back to live view.
-Internal audio recorder sucks, you have to have a good mic (might run you a couple hundred) or external recorder for good quality audio
- Jello/rolling shutter effect on video.
- And of course no manual controls for video.Anyways, those are some the issues which are shared by both the d90 and d300s. These are also the very reasons why I won't upgrade to a d300s solely for video, since it's practically the same as the d90. Like I mentioned above, for now, the technology just isn't developed yet for me to splurge a good deal of money on a body that is made for photography, not for cinematography.
Posted 3 years ago # -
The best reviewed DSLR in term of video performance according to DpReview is the Panasonic GH1, I think from a handling point of view this camera is better, liveview screen in adjustable, you can use the electronic viewfinder in video mode, maybe not as great for taking pictures, it has mike input. You can get adapters to use manual Nikon lenses on it, I don't know how well they would work in video mode
Just a thought
Pete
Posted 3 years ago # -
Welcome to the forum, Samstag and Safyre. Great exhaustive summary, Safyre. I own and love the D90, but even though I wouldn't use it for serious video for some of the reasons Safyre mentions, it's great to be able to switch over when my kids are doing something funny that I want to remember. That said, if you have the money to consider the D300s, getting a separate HD camcorder is probably not a bad idea. If you downgrade to the D5000, you could have a little more to spend on the camcorder. I guess it depends on whether stills or video are your priority.
I'm looking for some kind of hotshoe-mounted (well, coldshoe, actually) standalone recording system that would be better than the D90's onboard mic—probably in the $200-400 range—so that I could go in later and put better sound to my movie clips. I'm looking at the Zoom H4n, which has a 1/4" 20 mount on the bottom that I could put a coldshoe attachment on. Does anyone have any recommendations about that sort of thing?
Posted 3 years ago # -
I have a Zoom H4n audio recorder and it is great. Uses SD cards and records in either WAV or MP3 formats. With a 16gb or 32gb card you could record almost forever.
The Nikon Ds3 has a 1.35mm stereo input jack, and the sound is great, depending on your mic. Here is a video I shot with the D3s in low light, with a 1.35mm to XLR jack to a Sennheiser shotgun mic. It was not even as close as the Neumann mic in the photo and you can hear it worked great.
[+] Embed the video | Video Download Get the Flash Video Sound is as important as video in making video good, so you want to think about that for sure. I sold a bunch of stuff and am using two D3s cameras to get around the 5-minute barrier, alternating shots. Until the big companies come out with a reasonably-priced camcorder with a FF sensor, interchangeable lenses (Nikon mount for me), and all flash media, I am going to make these Nikons work for video. But I am mainly doing studio interview and infomercial-type videos.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Thanks, Michael. That sounds great. So, unless I misunderstood you had the shotgun mic plugged directly into the D3s. With the D90 I don't have that option, but the Zoom H4n is a pretty good choice, then? Part of why I'd opt for that is for the expandability.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Welcome to the forum Samstag77 and sayfre.
Even though the D90 is cheap if you are serious about film making you will still need to invest in the proper set up. Microphones, camera rigs,etc. are all part of the proper film making experience. Just buying the camera will not give you the results you are looking for.
I agree with bmxdad that perhaps the Panasonic GH-1 is a better match for you.
The D90 will be coming up on two years old and ready for replacement by summer 2010 if not sooner.Posted 3 years ago # -
Thanks so much for all your advice! I truly appreciate all your input.
Yes, sound would definitely be an issue, for sure.At the moment, what I'm trying to do is put together a portfolio and to develop my shooting style, and at the same time stock up on cutaway shots, to be used in later projects. (such as establishers, candid street shots, pigeons, dogs, textures, walls, etc) And also to shoot videos for a friend's experimental, minimalist-type music.
I think once I start shooting scripted scenes, or anything that involves more people than just me, I'd look to rent some decent equipment anyway.
I just want something I can carry around with me to get the creative juices flowing.
The main reason I want to switch from camcorder to D-SLR is that the lenses are closer to ones used in cinema and it immediately conveys a whole different story when everything in frame isn't in focus. It's just a whole new ballgame - we can create incredibly professional looking footage as a small price.Posted 3 years ago # -
What kind of lenses do you have now? Camera?
Posted 3 years ago # -
I have access to a D3 with a top-of-the-line 105mm, a 14-24mm and a 24-85mm.
It's not mine, but my dads so I can borrow the lenses if need be.Posted 3 years ago # -
If you really want to get into video I'd recommend the d300s. If you want to capture good sound you'd be spending close to the difference anyway for a solid state recorder that you wouldn't be able to attach to your hotshoe.
You are also asking on the wrong forums. The lot that visits here are mostly gear heads or the family photo variety. You will get a lot of video bashing here.
http://dvxuser.com/V6/forumdisplay.php?f=174
Go here and do some light reading before you decide. You will not be using the AF-On during filming even if you got the d300s - you have to manual focus, so get comfortable with the idea. I'd also recommend you pick up at least one older manual focus lens. There are some tricks for exposure that you can't do w/o them. You're going to have to get good at pulling focus also, or mark your lens and have someone do it for you between shots - the same way it's done for film. You should also tack on the price of a split prism focus screen onto your total price.
You're going to run into the rolling shutter problem. There are some ghetto fixes on that forum or you can try the foundry's plugin for Nuke/After Effects and it works really well.
-chris
Posted 3 years ago # -
Then wait a few more weeks until PMA 2010 (Feb). That's when Nikon will maybe have another round of new products. If they don't announce anything new then get the D90. Or if you're not really interested in whatever might get announced and just want the D90 now then have at it.
What is it about the D300S video samples don't you like?
Posted 3 years ago # -
Thanks pher
In my experience gear heads are always the best people to ask for advice.
I've just come off a shoot and all the buzz among professional cinematographers and film crew is around D-SLR cinematography. People are getting very very excited about the possibilities. Most of the chatter is around the Canon 5D MkII and the 7D at the moment. As my family is quite loyal to Nikon, I wanted to follow the tradition.
I think AF would be more of a problem than a solution when shooting video, I like the idea of manual and focus pulling sounds like something I should learn to do anyway.
Thank you for the link to the other forum, I cannot believe my 2 weeks of googling never came up with it.Posted 3 years ago # -
Hey pher no one's bashed video on this thread? In fact I don't recall any video DSLR haters in a very long while around here.
We welcome all experience levels
Posted 3 years ago # -
Well, maybe part of the issue is that there's not that many D300s videos to choose from
I don't understand why the exposure flickers around quite a lot here:but I suppose maybe the person didn't lock it.[+] Embed the video | Video Download Get the Flash Video
And I almost feel as though the D300s has more Rolling shutter issues than the D90. But maybe the people who uploaded D90 ones fixed it in post.As I said, I have fallen in love with the feel of the D90 after using a friends one for an hour ;)
Posted 3 years ago # -
Sam, read the stickie at the top of the D90 section on the link I sent you( The one by Kholi). In short, try playing with your exposure lock.
http://www.cinema5d.com -- is another good site to check out.
Keep your eye on he forums for the rest of December. Nikon started a new division dedicated to firmware a few months ago. There are supposedly new updates coming this month aimed at video. Full manual control has been a long time coming.
Posted 3 years ago # -
I think you're right about the exposure lock. Jonny suggested it as a possible cause on a D3S video sample here:
http://nikonrumors.com/forum/topic.php?id=1003#post-16519Posted 3 years ago # -
Pher the rumored updates will more than likely give the D300S full manual control. Probably not the D90 :^(
Posted 3 years ago # -
Yes, with the D90 the auto exposure is atrocious unless you lock the AE—it's menu setting f4 and it needs to be on AE-Lock (hold). That's what safyre was talking about in the fourth point of the post above. That would fix the D300s video, where it looks like it's as bad as the D90 without AE-L (hold). It's probably that more D300s users haven't figured it out yet compared with D90 users if you've seen it on more D300s videos (heaven knows it's buried deep in the manual).
edit: the D3s video in the thread Niko posted could be better because it has less dramatic changes in the light, but I think they actually improved it for the D3s by making the steps smaller. I may be wrong as I don't know anyone with a D3s so I could try it.Posted 3 years ago # -
merlewine said:
I have a Zoom H4n audio recorder and it is great. Uses SD cards and records in either WAV or MP3 formats. With a 16gb or 32gb card you could record almost forever.Thanks for your recommendation, Michael. I read and watched some reviews since we discussed this and I ordered the Zoom H4n today. I'm thinking of also using it to plug into the sound system at, for example, wedding receptions and have one D90 rolling video (and by rolling I mean rolling shutter ;-) on a tripod while I'm off getting stills with the other. I guess I might have to bribe the DJ with some free pictures he can use for self-promotion in order to get into the sound system.
Posted 3 years ago # -
same idea with the D5k Jonny?
Just curious, renting one tomorrow and wanted to muck around with the video over xmas break. . .
Posted 3 years ago # -
Well, it's not really that the audio on the D90/D5000 isn't usable, it's more that it isn't usable for a lot of things. I think it's fine for mucking around with ;-) I use it for little video clips of my kids playing all the time and it might even be better than my little camcorder's audio in that there's no whining from the tape drive in the background (the camcorder uses DV tapes).
For people with a D300s or D3s, there's an external mic input like the one Michael said he connected a shotgun mic to. If you want nice audio with the video from the D90 or D5000, you pretty much have to use the onboard audio as just a sync reference and use an external setup to record the final audio. I can borrow a nice mixer and DAT recorder from my dad, but I can't really haul all of that around with me along with my photo gear. Also, the Zoom has got a 1/4"-20 threaded mount on the bottom, so I can stick it on my little velcro tripod (an ultra-pod II) that I sometimes use for off-camera flash and put it wherever I want it. I've already prepared a place in my camera bag for this little guy. Welcome home, Zoom.
Posted 3 years ago #
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