I'm very surprised that I couldn't find a previous thread for this? How long do you think it will be before ALL film supplies will dry up, and the world will never go back from digital? My local camera shop still sells a few second hand 35mm DSLR's, and it got me thinking how much longer they would have any value except as bookends?
How long does film have?
(36 posts) (19 voices)-
Posted 8 months ago #
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Ask Fuji. As long as they make film you will be able to get it on-line and send it somewhere for processing. But I would expect digital to drive most film processors out of business in about 10 years. Just a guess.
Posted 8 months ago # -
Actually we have a film-only store here in town, and they just opened a couple years ago. They offer film and developing supplies, print making supplies and used camera on consignment. They do good business with the local jr. college students.
There are still some die-hard film fans out there and more and more younger people get into it as a hobby.
I think black and white will stay with us for a long time, but maybe not color. At least not supplied in mass quantities from the bigger companies. It will smaller and a niche thing.
Posted 8 months ago # -
It is my understanding the darkroom techniques are still being taught at colleges and technical instates across the country in the USA. I am about to give and enlarger and other equipment to one near me.
Eventually, digital will replace all film, much the same way our modern film replaced coating your own glass plates. But again, for the adventurous, here is how to make your own emulsion coated glass plates
http://www.unblinkingeye.com/AAPG/DPlate/dplate.html
With film, the sensor development which is so rapidly advancing, combined with newer programs which can make digital look like any film, will no doubt eliminate all film except for the DYI crowd sometime in the future as there would be little advantage except for the exercise of doing in the darkroom what we used to enjoy so much.
We all have to grieve over change, whether it is for the better or for the worse.
Posted 8 months ago # -
I have been wondering this myself. Fujifilm has dropped a couple of lines which made me look up twice. It's down to Ilford and Fujifilm as the last "big" two standing. When they start dropping lines, I think we will know. My guess is in the end, there will be just a handful of "types" (i.e. best B&W, 1 color print, 1 color neg) for each brand and they will be made for a very long time.
What I have found interesting is that watching e-bay prices, a year ago, used Leica M7 cameras were commanding $3,000, M6's were pulling $2,500. Now M6's are only getting $1,200 for a really good one, and M7's are barely pulling $1,800. As a baseline, M3's have pulled $1,000 & M4's $800 continuously for years. Even Fm2n's are pulling about $100-150 less than they did a year ago. Even Hasselblad 500s are dropping to around $1,500 when they were a couple of grad a year ago. Demand is falling for even high end desirable film cameras and film companies have to be feeling the crunch as well.
At the same time, Fujifilm G617, Hasselblad xpans, Linhofs and many plate 4x5 & 5x7s (and the like) are still holding their prices. I think that suggests, the quality these produce still outdoes digital.
I still have a nostalgia that continues to disappoint as my D300 seems to create better images. For all practical purposes digital has replaced film.
Posted 8 months ago # -
TaoTeJared said:What I have found interesting is that watching e-bay prices, a year ago, used Leica M7 cameras were commanding $3,000, M6's were pulling $2,500. Now M6's are only getting $1,200 for a really good one, and M7's are barely pulling $1,800. As a baseline, M3's have pulled $1,000 & M4's $800 continuously for years. Even Fm2n's are pulling about $100-150 less than they did a year ago. Even Hasselblad 500s are dropping to around $1,500 when they were a couple of grad a year ago. Demand is falling for even high end desirable film cameras and film companies have to be feeling the crunch as well.
I found a F100 for $100. It's fantastic and works with all my lenses. I shoot with Ilford Delta 400 and develop it in my laundry room. Practical? No. Fun? Yes.
Posted 8 months ago # -
Yep - those were going for $300 a year ago.
Posted 8 months ago # -
To each his own,but digital is what brought me back to photography after a 30 year layoff.
I don't miss using film any more than I miss outhouses.Living in the rural south,I'm old enough to remember using outhouses......nothing wakes you up faster than a trip to the outdoor John early in the morning and getting stung by an angry wasp on the bare butt ;-)Posted 8 months ago # -
Does Costco still process film?
Posted 8 months ago # -
From the website of Costco, no mention or prices of film developing can be found by me. I will check on this a bit later today at the local store.
Posted 8 months ago # -
If we're talking 35mm color film, then we probably have less than 10 yrs. They still sell disposables as I see them quite a bit. Now, if we're talking large format film, then it has at least 10 years IMHO.
It's funny because I recently found some undeveloped film in my mother's house from around 1995-1998 era. Sent it in to Wal-Mart for processing (single 24qty. exposures) and around 8 rolls cost me close to $100. Expensive, but I would've paid $1,000 to see pictures of my family from 15 years ago. There's something about holding a tangible print from 35mm film that is a relic or has strong personal meaning. I'm a traditionalist but I'll admit digital is much more economical -- and flexible. I have hundreds of 35mm negatives that range in date from 10 - 30 years old. Before long, I'll have these reprinted and digitally scanned. Technology constantly changes and one day the digital age will be replaced, too. Maybe virtual reality will be the next big step and we'll have images stored in our brains. I hope to be long dead and ice cold when (and if) this happens.
Posted 8 months ago # -
Like I said above, I think we will have just the basic film types for each size and that is it. I agree the larger format film will be around for a very long time. There are still applications for Film but as you noted it is getting expensive. I like shooting B&W and considered setting up a dark room/corner to make it cheaper but still, 30 rolls and I'm halfway to a new 85mm 1.8g. Hard to ignore that.
What has amazes me is how good cheap cameras with film really was. The IQ was really good. Better than our cell phone photos for sure and most compacts. Interesting how we accept mediocrity just to have convenience. 10 years from now, many will look back, remember how many images were lost to computer failures and how bad the photos really look. Then they will look at their parents photos from 25 years ago with film, and be amazed how much better they looked.
Posted 8 months ago # -
Hi all,
I used to have brown fingers when I was younger. As a US Army, then wire service photographer I've shot and developed in the 6-digit range of rolls of film.
RIP film.
My best,
Mike
Posted 8 months ago # -
I recently got into this discussion when I was recording a record. The engineer I often record with is a dyed-in-the-wool analogue technician. His studio is still a state of the art 24" tape facility.
He's also a photography expert, from the film days.
We got into the discussion about Kodachrome, and how sad that this processing has gone away. The metallic dyes used in that process made high quality negatives that would last generations. 100 years from now you could dig them out and make prints.
What happens if you can't access your digital files? Your images don't actually exist. They are just math. What would happen if all electronic devices on earth just didn't work any more because the grid was annihilated by a CME?
Think that can't happen? Wrong.
Hang on to those negatives.
Posted 8 months ago # -
Film processing is no longer available onsite from any of my local stores (CVS, Walgreen's, Walmart, Sams Club), who do the same as my local camera store; send film away for processing. They do a reasonable job of it so long as you don't mind the 5 to 7 day turn round. Of course, you could always do it yourself, which is easy for B&W but harder for color neg stock.
For those who say Fuji when it comes to film, there are several sources of other brands both in date and expired including all the usual brand name suspects (for B&W I always seem to be able to get Ilford FP4) from online vendors - try Film Photography Project and also there seems to be no end of it on eBay, but as others have said, "for how much longer"?
While I have not personally shot a frame of film at all this year (first time I can remember for ages), I suspect film will be available for several years to come, but as the processing options become more and more limited, at what stage will it no longer be worth it?
If I need to I can dig out my darkroom gear from it's dusty boxes, but with digital improving as it is, by the time film does finally go away, will I care?
Posted 8 months ago # -
I think film will be around for a long time but perhaps only use by the hobbyist/artist. Look at Polaroid it folded as a company and then shortly there after the Impossible project was born. Instant photography will never be viable commercial product again but for a nitch market it will be there. Same thing will happen to film. The Analog Photography users group, APUG seems to have a pretty big following.
Posted 8 months ago # -
Hi all,
"What would happen if all electronic devices on earth just didn't work any more because the grid was annihilated by a CME?"
Unfortunately, I'd have many other things to worry about.
Color films don't have the staying power of B&W, either, not 100s of years, anyway.
Long term archival processes and new methodologies is a worthwhile for digital media.
My best,
Mike
Posted 8 months ago # -
As recently as five years ago there were still tangible, objective reasons for film having a role (?roll :)). However the latest crop of dSLRs, together with powerful software from Adobe has, in my view pretty much eliminated any real advantage of film over digital. The number of young professional photographers still preferring film over digital must now be infinitessimal.
When that number drops below a certain critical mass, film will disappear suddenly, and without warning. Fuji will cease production soon after it becomes non-profitable. When that occurs, what processing companies remain will fold overnight. Time scale? Who knows, but my guess is between 5-10 years.
Posted 8 months ago # -
andrewz said:
I think film will be around for a long time but perhaps only use by the hobbyist/artist. Look at Polaroid it folded as a company and then shortly there after the Impossible project was born. Instant photography will never be viable commercial product again but for a nitch market it will be there. Same thing will happen to film. The Analog Photography users group, APUG seems to have a pretty big following.The Polaroid film has become more of a novelty though- the price they're asking for is pretty steep, if not astronomic. At those prices it can't be used as an everyday thing. But it is nice that it'll be back for a while.
Posted 8 months ago # -
Posted 8 months ago #
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I hate seeing changes more than anybody, and I'm only 35 yrs old. Unfortunately we have to accept some changes and technology is the most susceptible to change. What bothers me about the "digital age" is not about the smartphones, digital cameras, or LCD/plasma TVs; No, the increasingly plastic & disconnected mindset of society scares me much, much more.
Posted 8 months ago # -
msmoto said:
It is my understanding the darkroom techniques are still being taught at colleges and technical instates across the country in the USA. I am about to give and enlarger and other equipment to one near me.We are still doing a course unit (one semester) that covers much of the same ground as the old Kodak series of booklets about use of film and D&P as the core material. We also have several of the Visual Arts guys teaching "traditional" photo techniques side by side with digital. Darkroom space has gone down by 80% over the last 10 years and we now only have three enlarger bays. We used to have 30 enlargers in 4 separate rooms, now just one (the smallest) room. Only students and a few of faculty are still using it.
All our 'commercial' work (brochures, promo, web, newspaper, most academic, etc) is digital now.
As a university employee, I thank you for donating some gear to a sister institution.
I am told that some are no longer accepting darkroom gear. We certainly have spares enough for a few years if anything breaks - and it does at the hands of some students (and staff) HAHAHAHAHA (looks the other way).
Posted 8 months ago # -
Wow, I turn my back on this thread for a moment, and look what happens :-) It's interesting to see I'm not alone in thinking about the question. After reading many of your responses, about your local stores offering to 'handle' the film, but actually send it away to be processed, I think that situation will become more and more common, with fewer and fewer companies being around, but the ones that are, serving a greater and greater geographical area. In fact I can see a single company obtaining global dominance in film sales and processing............someone like Kodak! :-) (Did I just say that)?
With regards to R8R's comments about CME and the potential fragility of storing digital images in the long term, would it be impossible to make a negative or slide from the digital data? Now that would be turn around, a machine in your local store, that takes your cameras memory card and spews out a length of film for archival purposes.
Posted 8 months ago # -
Posted 8 months ago #
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Mike Gunter said:
Long term archival processes and new methodologies is a worthwhile for digital media.
Hi all,
I'm hating growing older - regardless of the alternatives...
That sentence should read:
Long term archival processes and new methodologies for digital media is a worthwhile discussion.
Geez, I used to be a copy editor, too.
IMHO, I don't see too much use for average joes to use film, period.
Arty-farty types might see a bump in _marketing_ their wares to a self-labeled important niche market using film (my abrasive language notwithstanding, if photogs make money on it good for them), but the end products can be achieved by digital cameras just as well.
In the 'for what's it's worth' category, a new topic might be, what are the career path(s) for the budding photographer(s)', because I see that changing a lot.
My best and worse( on me)
Mike
Posted 8 months ago #
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