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Dirty Sensor from New on D600?

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spraynpray

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friedmud said:
No one has said specifically that it _IS_ oil (ie no one has tested it to see if it is oil)... only that some of it required contact (wet) cleaning. It could just be stubborn (electrostatically charged or welded) dust.

I personally have the issue... and all of mine is definitely dust. I can see it on the sensor... and see it blow around with my rocket blower....

Neither did I - I just said it was a quality issue. It is likely to be dust caused by that shutter gap though, so I expect a recall at some stage.

Posted 6 months ago #
roombarobot

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I have two more spots on my images. They appear on the left side of the frame, so are they on the left or right side of the sensor. I think the image is inverted on the sensor, but is it inverted and backwards or just inverted? (so should I look for the dust on the left or right of the sensor?)

BTW, I had two dust spots when my camera was new, then I took about 200 pictures, now I have two more. We'll see how this develops. I am having a hard time getting these spots off. I tried 3 tries with a rocket blower and one try with a can of air. I am not sure if they are off yet. :(

Posted 6 months ago #
roombarobot

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Did those of you who have dust on your sensor, originally or after, report this to Nikon? I think the only way they can see the extent of this problem is if many people report this to them. Please report it, perhaps they will then help us all.

Posted 6 months ago #
cando12

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I was about to purchase the D600 kit from Costco but after reading all the stories I think I'll stick with Canon. It's pathetic to have such a quality problem on any product, but particularly on such a high end camera.

Posted 6 months ago #
RockyMtnPhotos

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You should buy the Nikon kit at Costco. The D600 is superior to all the Canons on the market except the mk III and the kit is a great deal. Also you get a 90 day return policy if you have a problem. And that is a big if, IMO.

Posted 6 months ago #
Tradewind 35

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Get the Samurai swords out gentlemen.
What an atrocious quality control failing at our beloved Nikon. Is the company run these days by the same folk who operated Fukashima Daiichi? I just hope someone high up in Nikon has the sense to realise that the only way forward is an honest admission of the problem, prompt recompense for aggrieved customers and efforts to engineer back to quality products. Some guys and gals should be getting ready to fall on the pointy end....

Posted 6 months ago #
cando12

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How is the D600 superior to the 6D? I've had a canon dslr for the past 5 years and I'm trying to convince myself to get a Nikon but the quality doesn't seem to be there. I'm not even talking about the issues with the Nikon flash yet. I've never had a sensor problem of a flash problem with canon. I also read that Nikon's raw format is not hanled as well by photoshop. Is that true?

Posted 6 months ago #
RockyMtnPhotos

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If you read the spec tests at DxOMark there is no comparison. In my opinion, of course.

Posted 6 months ago #
cando12

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Just adding to my previous pot above.... The main reason I'm onside ring the D600 is I'm hopeful that the sensor's dynamic range is indeed better than canon's. I've not played with the 6D yet but I've been disappointed with the DR of the sensor on the 7D.

Posted 6 months ago #
cando12

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Sorry for the repost, the iPads auto spell was having fun with my last post....it's not "pot" but a "post"' not "onside ring" but "considering"

Posted 6 months ago #
roombarobot

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It seems the Nikon sensor is waaaaaay better. Plus the autofocus on the Nikon seems more advanced. The build quality also appears better. Almost every initial impression of the D600 vs 6D puts the D600 way ahead. However no full reviews of the 6D have come out yet.

Posted 6 months ago #
PB PM

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That most likely has something to do with the fact that the 6D doesn't start shipping till December.

Posted 6 months ago #
roombarobot

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After only taking about 300 shots and blowing off my sensor, it is now full of spots. It looks like this (contrast/sharpness maxed to show spots)...

Posted 5 months ago #
thuressf

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I just spoke to nikon's support and then dslr tech support and the first thing I was told when asking about the issue is that you can send your camera in for a free cleaning if it happens. Once would be ok, but it sounds like the d600 requires regular cleanings.

2nd, I was told they are "aware" of the issues, but the tech had no updates on a resolution besides they are probably working on it and details were quite vague in general about the d600 dust/oil spots. I'm not sure he actually confirmed the issue by using d600 and spots in the same sentence :)

On a good note, this was my first time calling NikonUSA and they were very pleasant to speak with and the wait time was minimal.

The D600 seems perfect in so many ways for me, but it's really hard to convince myself to go buy one with this issue.

Posted 5 months ago #
roombarobot

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I heard exactly the same thing from Nikon USA support. They also said that I would have to pay for shipping to have it cleaned. That annoys me, given that it is their fault for this.

I just read this on the dpreview boards:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/50354207

I waited about 6 weeks since I last called Nikon when I was told they were aware of the dust/oil issue in the D600 and waiting to hear from Nikon Tokyo. So today, I called back to ask for an update.

The gentleman I spoke with was very polite and helpful and gave me some good information once again (I believe it was the same person I spoke with the first time).

These are the points he made which may be useful for other people experiencing the same issue or think of buying a new D600:

Nikon Tokyo have a solution in the works which will involve fitting new parts into the camera to solve the issue
The fix will be coming 'soon' but I was told I should still send my camera in to be cleaned in the meantime for a quick turnaround of just several days
They are not oil spots we are seeing but lubricant/debris coming off the mirror box
The interim cleaning will involve not just the sensor but also the source of the lubricant
Nikon are paying for the postage by sending me out a barcode to put on the box so I can send it in for the cleaning
A high proportion of d600's are experiencing this problem

I think the major point here is that Nikon Tokyo have a solution involving the removal and fitting of new parts but this solution is not yet implemented and that the repair centre is waiting each day for an update on this (what I was told).

Thankfully, this means something is being done even if Nikon are not being vocal about it (big mistake in customer relations which I expressed my concern about).

Posted 5 months ago #
spraynpray

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roombarobot said:
I heard exactly the same thing from Nikon USA support. They also said that I would have to pay for shipping to have it cleaned. That annoys me, given that it is their fault for this.

I just read this on the dpreview boards:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/50354207

I think they missed the point: Cleaning it is at best a temporary fix - they need to fix the cause of the dust and pay the costs for everything to do with it.

Posted 5 months ago #
roombarobot

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Right, I didn't get the impression that Nikon USA knew, or would say anything about the issue. I still reported it, as should anyone who is experiencing this. For every one of us who does this it will increase the pressure on Nikon.

Now if the person from Switzerland heard right, then there is a cause and likely solution to this. I don't know what Nikon USA will do to my camera, but I hope it is a deeper cleaning. I hope that they will get whatever excess oil is remaining on the mirror/hinge/etc off as well as cleaning the sensor. But they wouldn't say what they were planning on doing.

Posted 5 months ago #
msmoto

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As I sit and wait for the sale on the D800 to begin, I am also thinking about the D600 as a potential alternative. From the forum on dpreview above it would appear Nikon is paying for the postage by supplying a barcode for the package prepaid. And, I would think this is going to be the solution world wide at some point.

And, having cleaned the sensor on my D4 after about 10,000 clicks, at a cost of about $40 for the cleaners, I can understand the frustration at least in a small way. But, if we purchase a new automobile, or in my case a motorhome, and have to take it in for warranty service, the cost to deliver it to the repair shop is in almost all cases that of the consumer. And, if one is driving 600 or even a 1000 miles, well the round trip is from $500-1000 for fuel.

So, I do understand how in a case where the issue is so clearly a manufacturing issue seen at the time of purchase, the anger and disappointment can trigger a lot of thoughts, we are still all under the general policy of the retail industry where some will and some won't pay for shipping to obtain warranty repairs.

If the sending out of the prepaid barcode labels comes to reality this I would consider a very positive action on the part of Nikon.

Posted 5 months ago #
roombarobot

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Thanks for the reply msmoto, you are a respected member of this forum and have provided helpful advice to many of us, including me.

I have heard the "oil change in a new care" analogy in many forums. I want to make sure that everyone knows that this is not a fair comparison. My sensor had image-wrecking amounts of spots after just 200 clicks and even more after 300 clicks. This isn't routine maintenance that a responsible owner should expect, it is a problem.

I hope this problem can be easily remedied. As a matter of fact I am expecting that it will be. However, it is frustrating to hear that Nikon had similar problems with a significant number of D7000 and D800 bodies. This shouldn't happen to a third line for them. I hope Nikon finds a fix and remedies the situation for those of us having this problem and does not replicate this problem in future camera lines.

On a related note, I have found it incredibly frustrating to see other photography/nikon community members attacking those of us with this camera issue. It is very apparent in this thread = http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/50354207 That poor Swiss person, why does he deserve to be attacked? It is really poor form to attack the victim.

Posted 5 months ago #
donaldejose

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Thom Hogan posted an interesting comment on the D600 "dust" issue. He thinks it may not be "dust" at all but some shavings left over from drilling some holes during assembly on a part that was not properly cleaned after the drilling. Many people are doing the drilling and just one or more are not properly cleaning up after the drilling to remove all the shavings or filings. That would account for some bodies having the issue and others not having it like the D800 left focus issue. That would actually be good news because Nikon will fix it on the assembly line (maybe they already have) and if it is an internal source of "dust" than it will eventually be eliminated with repeat cleanings. It would be great if it is not some sort of design flaw in the camera such that dust is being sucked in with use because that would be a constantly recurring problem. I have cleaned my D600 sensor twice now in just under 1,000 exposures. Less "dust" the second cleaning. Maybe that will be the end of it.

Posted 5 months ago #
spraynpray

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I thought the general consensus was that the dust is generated by a problem with the shutter design or manufacture not being right? Of course that could be internet fact...

Posted 5 months ago #
roombarobot

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My current feeling about my D600 is that it is not dust. Initially I was able to get some dust off with a blower that was on the sensor from the factory. Now, after only 300 clicks, I have spots on the sensor that won't come off with blowing. I have a suspicion that they are oil. I've sent my D600 body in to Nikon for repair.

Posted 5 months ago #
proudgeek

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Funny that the person to whom the dpreviewer spoke said it was "lubricant but not oil." In this case, what's the difference? They're not using salad dressing.

I'm certainly not an engineer, but you've got to figure that a highly engineered component, like a shutter curtain, would need some kind of oil/lubricant in order to ensure 150,000 or so actuations.

Perhaps some engineer somewhere miscalculated how the lubrication system would work and that a splatter is being created? Perhaps the reservoir in which the lubricant is stored has a leak or disperses too much lubricant per actuation? It seems that, based on that report, that Nikon is "getting it" and is in the process of dealing with the issue. It's actually the most encouraging thing I've read in terms of an interaction between Nikon and a D600 user.

I continue to wait. I've got to believe that eventually this will be resolved.

Posted 5 months ago #
donaldejose

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I have had both the dust spots and a few oil spots on my D600 sensor. You can see the difference under magnification. Those dark black spots are dust (or shavings from an uncleaned internal part) while the browner larger spots are drops of oil or lubricant which must be flinging off the mirror.

Posted 5 months ago #
Ironheart

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proudgeek said:
Funny that the person to whom the dpreviewer spoke said it was "lubricant but not oil." In this case, what's the difference? They're not using salad dressing.

...

I continue to wait. I've got to believe that eventually this will be resolved.

Graphite is one commonly used lubricant that is not oil.

See the main blog. It looks like 3K activations will shake off most of the "stuff" and you are good to go after that.

Posted 5 months ago #