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Dirty Sensor from New on D600?

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tbonehaj

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Let me be as kind and pleasant as possible as this was my original intention.

Dear Friends:

1. Please when writing a response use less transitions and check your grammar and spelling.
2. Don't contradict yourself by telling us to first go and buy a cleaning kit and fix the problem and then second tell us that if we wish to return the product for a refund or exchange, then go ahead. It is not our place to fix or remedy the problem of a fast-tracked product by a multi billion dollar company (Nikon).
3. Being a 'professional' has nothing to do with knowing how to clean a sensor. I'm not a professional sensor cleaner, I'm a professional photographer. Being a professional has everything to do with holding Nikon accountable for what they've done here. There are people that have risked a lot by going with this product only to have to then spend time, money, and energy trying to solve the problem, fast, while clients are waiting in the wings. I would think that a 'professional' should be able to rely on Nikon and go out and purchase a D600 or two for a new shoot and not have any foreseeable problems. Then only to find out that in post production nearly all of their shots need drastic touch up. These 'spots' show up very well when doing HDRI by the way.
4. (Whispering)...I'm not yelling when I place others in caps...it is just another way to emphasize my addressee...my bad.
5. Do you own a D600? If you did, I would think you would understand how frustrated it is to go out and upgrade your system from DX to FX and spend almost $4,000 only to find out that, ...it....doesn't....work...right.

Posted 7 months ago #
golf007sd

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@tbonehaj I could take this conversation to a whole nother level by addressing your comments, but I don't play childish games. Moreover, it would muddy the topic and the standards we have here at NRF. But know this,I read between the lines and through the words of the writer. With that said, I will take the high road: hope you find a solution that works for you in addressing your problem(s).

In closing, I would like to make a recommendation to all those that buy a new camera body: hold on to your old camera if you can, this will allow you to hedging against something that might not be up to par with your new camera.

Posted 7 months ago #
donaldejose

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It is looking like there are some "birthing" problems with both the D800 and the D600: some minor which can be fixed by the purchaser and others which cannot. I seem to have been luck enough to not have any I could not easily fix. If I had been as unlucky as some here, I would be upset also.

Posted 7 months ago #
Rx4Photo

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I can agree with some of the frustration that's coming about with this oil spot issue. I believe Nikon's responsibility is to incorporate, if possible, a phase in the production line whereby they flip that shutter several hundred times after lubricating it BEFORE it's placed into the camera. This would allow much of the loose lube to be flung off of the mechanism before it goes into the body. The limitation is whether this is even possible since the shutter mechanism might have to be assembled inside of the body. (I have replaced a few computer keyboard keys and have learned that the key assembly cannot be totally done on a tabletop then to simply press the key back into place - some assembly has to be done piece by piece on the keyboard.)

My D7000 had a noticeable sensor oil/dust issue within the first year. I did a lot of post processing to clean these up and finally bought a cleaning kit. Used it a couple of times and noticed that over time the issue went away. Probably not because of anything I did but because the excess oil was being eliminated from the mechanism over time. My D800 has never had this issue... yet.

That said, I believe the consumer should be made aware of the probability that minute oil spatter onto the sensor is possible. Not to mention dust. In a way, it's like brake dust - you wouldn't take your car back to the dealer and complain after accumulating brake dust after the first thousand miles. (Yeah, I know some would but we have names for those people). Looking forward, buying high tech devices with moving parts will probably require more and more mechanical knowledge by the consumer, unless you plan to run for help every time an issue arises.

My idea of a remedy: the camera rolls off the assembly line, Nikon flips that shutter 500 times, clean the sensor, flip that shutter another 500 times, clean, flip, clean. Zero the shutter count once it's not showing an issue and ship it out.

Posted 7 months ago #
tbonehaj

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Joined: Oct '12
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Hi again to all of the long-time members and busy posters to the board...let me wash my hands of this Nikon problem with my final post as I will be moving on to a different class of camera (and it isn’t Nikon’s number one rival). First, I can see that those that wish to respond to me are what one may consider to be true Nikonians...you guys have been here a while and are preferred by the powers that be. You support Nikon with the greatest of intentions. Congratulations.
Having said that, your opinion/advice that one should know how to clean a sensor or have a greater mechanical knowledge so that problems may be fixed by oneself rather than running for help when an issue arises does not help to support the fact that the Nikon created this problem through poor engineering and quality control. From what I’ve read and head from sales associates, this is not an isolated issue, but we will have to see what the ultimate outcome is. I like others are victims and when we come to the forum for help to understand what we are to do (especially if we are new buyers and wish to purchase a D600) we walk away with the message that the problem is ok and is ours to fix. Not right, in my opinion.
I too like car analogies, but break dust analogies just don’t cut it. Break dust happens normally but I’m sure if you were mechanically inclined you would already have known that. Lets use any analogy that has to do with a mechanical device that ends up compromising your goal because of a recurring malfunction in the device itself. Hot water heater, stove, car, camera...If you have to keep ‘fixing’ the problem after each and every use...my simple question is...is that acceptable? Are you willing to accept that you will have to clean your D600 sensor after your first dozen or so shoots, hoping that the next shoot will be free of oil spots? Not to mention the amount of time needed for post production. How many times would one have to really clean the sensor for the first several years or so if they had two bodies and kept dedicated lenses on each camera?
Oh, and in a perfect world it would be nice if we all could keep our old mechanical equipment (whatever it may be) while we work out the ‘break-in’ phase of our new equipment. So next time you get a new furnace...keep the old one...you never know what may happen, right?

Posted 7 months ago #
Rx4Photo

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@ tbonehaj, Trust me, I was not happy with having to use the clone or heal stamp so many times in the photos that needed cleaning initially. I guess time passed and I realized that it was self resolving. In the meantime I took the initiative to help resolve my own issue. We're all different. I've always been a hands-on kind of guy. I've done carpentry and cabinet making, tile and wood flooring, plumbing, auto repair, swimming pool maintenance, small circuitry, pharmaceutical compounding, and CPR. My hands are always into something and I've always been one to learn something before reading the manual and fix something before calling the company. But that's me. Yet I know people who can't change a lightbulb. We're all different. My goal was state that Nikon should perhaps change their QA practices and also inform those that had this issue that you don't necessarily have to return the camera immediately once you notice it and maybe remedy the issue yourself in the meantime.

Best of luck to you.

Posted 7 months ago #
earthsea

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Joined: May '12
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How to clean your camera sensor.
http://www.visibledust.com/instructions.php?pid=450

Posted 7 months ago #
proudgeek

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I have to say, I also agree with tbonehaj. If I spend $2,000 or $3,000 on a new body I expect that Nikon will have put the production run through serious QC paces. I don't want to be told that I'll have to be performing maintenance like that virtually out of the box.Also, dust is one thing and often likely caused by the user, but oil spots are something else altogether. Now granted, his body is likely the exception rather than the rule. But it's making me sit back and watch a little before doing anything. It's one of the reasons I tend not to buy brand new versions (which often turn out to be beta versions) of a product. Let someone else pay to be the guinea pig.

Posted 7 months ago #
OnTheRopes

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Well, despite not liking his initial tone I find myself in some agreement with tbonehash.
My D800 had the oil spot problem, this issue has no business in a camera costing over £2000 and is clearly poor quality control as it is not an isolated issue.
If Nikon were aware of this then they should have put out something in the documentation regarding taking it in to a service centre for a free sensor clean. If it was not known then by now they should have issued a statement and be offering a free sensor clean. But they are not saying anything, keep quiet and hope it goes away?

In my case I could not be bothered with sending it away for a clean and researched and chose to do it myself, but at first I got it wrong and used the wrong swabs (meant for water not oil) and so made the situation worse. I then got it fixed at a shop at a cost.
I have since then bought a sensor loupe and cleaned it a time or two and all has gone well.
However this is not a procedure for everyone and it should not be expected of anyone.
I am not a Nikon fanboy but I am now invested in Nikon as my brand.
I agree it is not a big issue and I certainly would not switch brands for such a small problem (I really like my D800). Nikon though certainly need to get their act together.

Posted 7 months ago #
msmoto

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Well, my thoughts about spending a lot on a camera are the same as everyone else. How about the D4? Mine developed about 70 oil spots, I cleaned them and now I have not noticed anymore.....but there may be some, I just have not seen them. Yeah, it hacks me off that I spend six large and get a product which is in a way not what I expected.

But, I cannot help but have some compassion for Nikon, the Tsunami and Thailand floods. Think about if you lost your house in a flood, then your workplace was destroyed. How well would any of us recover? And, in spite of all this, the D4, D800, D600 came out.

The largest issue I can see is the attitude of Nikon. Some US manufacturers have had big problems in their products. The most famous was the poisoning of Tylenol tablets thirty years ago. Even though Johnson & Johnson had no part in causing this, they took all the drug off the market and changed several factors to help eliminate the possibility this could happen again. They spent millions of dollars. The result was Tylenol became a legend and sales went out of sight. By the positive actions and upfront, proactive position taken by J & J, this was a marketing success beyond anyone's imagination.

Nikon, on the other hand, knows the problem exists. They no doubt have someone reading this forum. But, instead of being honest about the complete situation, taking responsibility, they give us the "silent treatment". In the USA, this does not go well for Nikon. New folks coming in who are not invested fully in the system might think Canon or Sony, or some other brand as a result of the Nikon "no comment" attitude.

My thinking is that there is someone in management who may need to be replaced. Like the head of consumer relations. I hope that somehow their attitude will change and we will see a more open public relations policy from Nikon. After all, we are part of the family...me for nearly fifty years now...

Posted 7 months ago #
proudgeek

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You make a good point about the floods. However, I was among those who felt we should cut them some slack for the delay in getting products to market and for the limited initial production runs. Once they elect to release a product and charge top dollar, it should be worth top dollar.

In my mind, the adage measure twice cut once applies here. I don't own a camera with oil on the sensor but I bet a lot of those who do would rather Nikon have waited an extra month to perfect its manufacturing process. A solution may have been as simple as simulating 1,000 or so actuations so that the oil "works itself out."

As for getting out in front of an issue like this (or the leftmost focal point on the D800) that's just corporate PR 101.

Posted 7 months ago #
golf007sd

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The problem is one thing, the solution is another...as is the cost and time. If you are scratching your head..let me elaborate. Does the problem exist? Yes..but to what end? That is to say, how many are effected? The solution, from Nikon's perspective, should have been: fill out an on-line forum that identifies this problem, then they issue you a repair order; that you can take to your local authorized Nikon repair facility, where they clean the sensor free of charge. The only issue is: down time for the photographer. Solution from the end user is: get a cleaning kit and do it yourself (very low cost and minimal down time), return the unit , or exchange (if it is in stock).

I know that "cost" is an issue for all of us, regardless of the unit price. I would expect that my 35 1.8, which cost $200, to perform as my 70-200 2.8 VR II which is $2400. No questions about it. If something is wrong with ones camera gear, and there is a way to address the matter that is low cost and offers minimal downtime, then I Personally would take a path that allows me to address the problem myself. In this case, ladies and gents, we are talking about an object on a sensor, not some major part that needs to be removed and replaced by a professional technician. Does it put a bad taste in ones mouth...yes to some I'm sure it does, to the point that they jump ship as if it is on fire...that to me shows lack in judgment and personal perseverance/conviction in dealing with issues, even at this minute level. Hence, tbonehaj solution in addressing this matter.

The move to FF, comes at a heavy price...be it camera body and/or lens. So if you are going to "step-up" your game in taking pictures with a FF body, get ready to spend some good amount of capital. If some issues arise and you can fix/address them yourself...well then you fill in the blank _________ _______ ________

Posted 7 months ago #
MattKane

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I bought my D600 two weeks ago and on the first day I noticed two large dust spots in the upper right corner of my images. I have cleaned the sensor with a blower which works for awhile but then dust spots appear again in a different spot. It took several attempts to get rid of the dust completely. Instead of using a sheet of white paper I turned auto focus off and photographed a clear sky which shows up the spots clearly, I can even see them on the live view screen.

Apart from this dust issue I am astounded at the image quality from this so called 'entry level' full frame camera. What's a little sensor dust between friends.

Posted 7 months ago #
MattKane

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MattKane said:
I bought my D600 two weeks ago and on the first day I noticed two large dust spots in the upper right corner of my images. I have cleaned the sensor with a blower which works for awhile but then dust spots appear again in a different spot. It took several attempts to get rid of the dust completely. Instead of using a sheet of white paper I turned auto focus off and photographed a clear sky which shows up the spots clearly, I can even see them on the live view screen.

No sign of oil spots.

Apart from this dust issue I am astounded at the image quality from this so called 'entry level' full frame camera. What's a little sensor dust between friends.

Posted 7 months ago #
norm1949

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The oil spots started after about 2 weeks and are multiplying rapidly. I have had the same 28-300mm lens on my D600 since I bought it. I bought the D600 specifically for a trip to Asia but looks like I will be travelling light. My dealer has a 1 week return, 2 week exchange policy but we will see what happens. I want a refund.

I had a D300 a few years ago that I was unable to clean the sensor. Nikon repair said there was oil between the filter layer and the sensor, charged me $500 and took months to replace sensor out of warranty. I am a little gun shy about cleaning the sensor.

The camera is usless with about 50 oil spots on each frame.

I have owned D70, D200, D300, D7000, V1 and D600 but I'm thinking my relationship with Nikon and my dealer may be about to come to an end.

Posted 7 months ago #
donaldejose

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http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2012/10/22/does-the-nikon-d600-have-a-sensor-dust-problem

Posted 6 months ago #
proudgeek

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I read a lot of Roger Ciala's stuff and consider him to be pretty smart and thorough. If he's seeing an issue there's an issue.

Posted 6 months ago #
jerl

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I think I can safely say that I see what you guys and what lensrentals is seeing, especially after an outdoor shoot I did recently and I noticed a ton of dust spots, mostly in the upper left corner. I cleaned them up after a quick cleaning, but I'll be on the lookout for them in the future.

Posted 6 months ago #
itsnotmeyouknow

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Thankfully I have had no issues with my D800. There is no way that it is acceptable to have to clean at your own expense a sensor as frequently as it is being reported. This isn't routine maintenance. These are symptoms of a larger problem. It's also disappointing to see regulars close in on a new member. Loyalty to a brand is one thing. Blind loyalty is another. Blind loyalty with disrespect is another thing entirely.

I too would be interested to know whether Golf has a D600. He is careful to shoot down any suggestion that there may be a problem but we don't know whether h is speaking from experience or just showing blind loyalty. On the shouting issue, the formatting of this forum is very poor indeed. How do you EMPHASISE anything on this forum without a bold or italic text button? You can only use capitals. Golf's tone to tbonehaj showed more signs of disrespect than the other way round.

if I bought a camera that regularly got dust in this way, there would be no hesitation on my part. I would RETURN the camera. It's faulty. If as is reported the dust is always in the same part of the sensor then this reinforces my point. Golf says that the products don't cause any damage to the sensor because there are no chemicals. Good. Sounds like a great product for OCCASIONAL use. With any sensor clean that you do there is a risk of user error. Some of these errors could be damaging. While Nikon isn't responsible for user error, it is responsible for the increased probability of that error by the increased necessity to clean.

please note: CAPITALS used for emphasis not to shout!

Posted 6 months ago #
roombarobot

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I do have a D600. When I got it it had 2 dust spots on the sensor. I cleaned those off with a blower. I have since take 260 pictures and I haven't seen dust again or oil at all. Of course I don't know if I will, but I'll keep looking.

To look for spots I have been taking a picture of a white wall with a narrow aperture, long exposure and the focus on infinity. Is that the right way to find anything?

Anything else I could be doing to watch for this or prevent it? I am very careful when I change lenses and I don't do it often.

Posted 6 months ago #
gep

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I had both dust and 2 dead pixels on my D600. The dust was in the top left corner and since I never changed the lens, it must have been on when I purchased it or was a result of the gap in the shutter. I did a review on youtube and you can see the dust in the dynamic range video and the 2 dead pixels in the low light test.
http://www.youtube.com/user/learningcameras/videos?flow=grid&view=0

Posted 6 months ago #
SkintBrit

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Judging by Admin's post on the main NR blog today, it would appear that there may well be a genuine problem with all D600's.

Posted 6 months ago #
rensuchan

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I noticed the dust after a few weeks on the upper left as well. I blew it out with a blower but I am seeing some start to come back. A little annoying, yes, but easy to fix... I think of it as a significant other that's a little bit higher maintenance :)

Posted 6 months ago #
golf007sd

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@itsnotmeyouknow: I had started a lengthy response to address your view on my conversation with tbonehaj, but I really don't need to rationalize myself to you...after all youdontknowme...The End. I will sent you a PM regarding your question. No need to take this topic down a road it does not need to be.

Posted 6 months ago #
silverdog

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I have the some problem with my D600.

The shop where I bought the D600 call Nikon but Nikon reply to him that "is not a problem officially recognized" !!

Posted 6 months ago #