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Nikon Rumors Forum » Nikon DSLR

A true D700 replacement?

(31 posts) (17 voices)
  • Started 7 months ago by andy sharp
  • Latest reply from spraynpray
  • Related Topics:
    1. D7000 replacement coming soon?
    2. is the D700 replacement about to be released?
    3. June 2012: Anything new about the Nikon D7000 replacement?
    4. Wait for Nikon D7000 Replacement?
    5. D7100 or other D7000 replacement?

Tags:

  • D700 updates
  • just got my D700 replacement. D3s with 12000 Acts. This
« Previous12
  1. msmoto

    big gun cougar
    Joined: Mar '10
    Posts: 2,736

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    Wait a minute...I do not have a D800 as back up... and I am waiting for a D400...

    OK, if the D400 does not arrive soon, the D800 will be the second body, but with a grip. Shooting in portrait position is so much easier when the controls are in the same position I want to have the convenience.

    I think the idea of a "true replacement" is almost an oxymoron as any improvement would have major changes. And, while we on NRF have our opinions, we unfortunately have no more ability to predict the future than all the others out there who are attempting to figure out what Nikon is planning, but alas we are still only guessing.

    A few on this forum have studied extensively the history and development of the Nikon product line, and the opinions are based upon this. My experience goes back to about the time dirt was invented, so I am influenced and hoping Nikon's abilities to lead the market are the same as fifty years ago. But, I am not in the heads of the young folks who at Nikon are in charge of development so while I would like a nice D4 at D800 price....which IMO would be a "D700 replacement" I think we will see other cameras coming along and never see exactly the replacement we may want.

    Posted 7 months ago #
  2. TaoTeJared

    preferred member
    Joined: Apr '10
    Posts: 2,422

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    PB PM said:
    This argument is still flawed. Why? Because even with the D4 and D800 this still happens today. By your logic, Nikon is still shooting itself in the foot, simply by having more than one FX body.

    With all due respect, I did not say Nikon lost sales because of a "FX body." Cameras are more than just a sensor. Nikon lost D3 sales because for all the major features, it was the same camera in a D300 body and $2,000 less. FX is only one very small part and no one just looks at the sensor. It is the all around performance that was basically the same that pushed people away from the D3 to a D700. That is a very different argument.

    Besides, you can't lose something twice without gaining it back. D3 sales were lost. Some were regained by the D3s, and even more by the D4 as the D800 does not do that segment (sports/press/extreme low light) well and people bit the bullet and moved up. The niche that Nikon created have now been occupied by studio/landscape/low action shooting and has pulled some customers from Canon and probably a small few from medium format land.

    D3 -> D700 = Apples to apples (with a small bite out of it.)
    D4 -> D800 = Apples to grapefruit.

    Unlike the D700, the D800 is a very, very different camera than the D4. Most shooters who need a D4 can not replace one with a D800. If you need a back-up D4, the D800 will not get you there. D3 could get 9 FPS, D700 with grip 8 FPS. The D800 can not do that. If you look up historical sales from amazon you can see the D3 sales plummet when the D700 hit the market, and they never recovered. Many pros kept it even when the D3s came out as the improvement was not that much, and the gains were not worth the cost.

    Now what many D4 owners love is that those who bounce from sport to studio work and who wanted a High resolution camera for a second system, only had the choice of the $8,000 D3x. That did not sell well at all. The D800, and even the D600 to a large degree, have ate that camera's market up for $5-6k less. But again that is a entirely different use than what the D4 is intended for. At the D800 launch Nikon addressed this over and over again how unlike the D3/D700 where they were essentially the same camera, The D4/D800 are two entirely different systems. Basically they have taken Canon's model that they use for their 1Ds/5D line - one for press and sport, and one focused on studio and landscape.

    The high iso performance I mentioned above. I don't think the D4 gets enough credit. There is more to measure than just "off color specs" for high iso comparison - The D4's Color depth (i.e. not washed out) is unbelievable. It is much better than my D800 at stratospheric Isos for sure.

    If you can recall back to 2008, Nikon was quickly trying to make an answer to the outdated Canon 5D and needed something to combat the release of the 5D MkII. They obviously had nothing in the works, so they did in essence what donaldejose said above - they just dumped a D3 sensor into a D300 body and changed the viewfinder. Their frankenstadion camera turned into one of the most sought after cameras.

    Posted 7 months ago #
  3. TaoTeJared

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    Joined: Apr '10
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    msmoto said:
    Wait a minute...I do not have a D800 as back up... and I am waiting for a D400...

    If the D400 isn't a 16-18mp High ISO super beast - I want your D4 as a back up MSmoto! ;)

    Posted 7 months ago #
  4. msmoto

    big gun cougar
    Joined: Mar '10
    Posts: 2,736

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    TaoTeJared said:
    If the D400 isn't a 16-18mp High ISO super beast - I want your D4 as a back up MSmoto! ;)

    OK, but only after I win the Powerball Jackpot...LOL

    Posted 7 months ago #
  5. donaldejose

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    Joined: Mar '11
    Posts: 1,043

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    I too am struck by how similar DxOmark rated the high ISO performance of the D4(2965), D800(2853), and D600(2980). Basically, images from all should look the same at ISO 1600, 3200 and 6400. Yes, fps is significantly different. But if very high fps isn't necessary for your style of shooting, the D4 is not needed for "sports" shooters who can work with 6400 ISO and 5 fps. Will a D400 be able to provide higher fps and cleaner higher ISO? We will see soon. That is a lot to expect from a DX size sensor, after all if it has 16 mp like the D4 it necessarily would have to have much smaller pixels. If it has the same pixel pitch as the D4 it necessarily would have to be much smaller in mp size. Would a 7 or 8 mp D400 sell well if it had 10 fps and clean 12,800 ISO? Probably not, just because 7 or 8 would seem so "inferior" to buyers. Let us just say you could cut a DX size section off the D4 sensor and build the D400 around it. You could get even higher fps than the D4 because you are processing less data. But would it sell well, especially when the D3200, D3200 and D7200 are all likely to offer 24mp? I think Nikon has a bit of a dilemma. Nikon could produce a very good D400 using a DX sized D4 sensor but the total mp size would not seem to say "premium camera" to many buyers. At this point in the development process Nikon must already have made all the decisions as to what the D400 will be and must be either producing the parts or working with parts suppliers to get the parts made. Software is probably still being tweaked to produce the best IQ, but I bet the sensor has been decided upon and is being manufactured right now.

    Posted 7 months ago #
  6. spraynpray

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    Joined: Feb '10
    Posts: 1,514

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    nikbonbonbonbon said:
    I get called a "bad word" then banned. What a wonderful forum you have here msmoto. This place is like an old boys network where guys like the wizard of Omaha can laugh in peoples faces and act arrogant at will. Awesome!

    Congrats! I've been on here for years and you are the first non-spammer to be banned as I recall.

    Of course that couldn't be your fault, could it?

    Bring some civility and you may do better - there are no heroes like keyboard heroes after all.....

    Posted 7 months ago #

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