Trust me, if I had the money, I would have an M9 or be waiting for an M10. I had a Canon 7 in the 60's with an f/2.0 Summicron. I love rangefinder cameras, all the manual settings, the Gossen Lunasix meter, actually measuring light and then adjusting the camera...no question, I would have one. And, who knows, if the M10 comes out and I win the lottery....hey...
Or, if Fuji gets the X-Pro 1 fixed to where it really works and focuses properly.... with a Leitz lens.....

msmoto and adamz I am not going to disagree with you because the low light ability of the current M9 is not even in the same league as DSLRs, but apparently the M10 will at least adress this issue to the point where it will have a range of up to ISO 10,000 and useful to probably 6400 like Nikon was with its D80 camera. The current Leica M9 Monochrome has better iso range apparently up to 10,000, but it only just recently started shipping. I will always keep my M9 as I absolutely love it. Manual everything, the frame lines and prism all heighten my enjoyment of photography. The Leitz glass is unbeatable too. I really like having a Nikon and Leica rangefinder body together.

msmoto said:
So, I am arrogant and jealous.

Love it :-)

"...Let's go to the street at night and see how the M9 works at ISO 10,000...." + 1 :)

Interesting ...in looking at images from the M9 Leica....this must be about having a Leica. The sensor at higher ISOs just does not seem to be there. And resolution...D800 is equal IMO at ISO 200. And at ISO 1600 the Nikon D3200 just beats the M9 something awful.

So, maybe Ernst Leitz is coming out with something which is going to be at least competitive. But, I think they are in the same place they were 50 years ago when they missed the SLR boat and Nikon took over.

Of course, only a few can afford the M9 or M10...at $11,000 for the body and 50mm f/1.4 manual focus Summilux. Then $7,000 for the f/1.4 24mm lens. I think I am jealous. But, I also think I can shoot a photo with my camera the equal of any shot with the Leica. So, I am arrogant and jealous. Let's go to the street at night and see how the M9 works at ISO 10,000....

You know, I'm kind of saying that already... ;-)

I just wonder how many point & shoots survive or if they do go the way of the dinosaur.

I can see the next generation saying "yeah, back then was when you had to hold the camera - wait for it - AT ARMS LENGTH! You had to look at the subject on a dim little screen while it waved around out front - AND PEOPLE ACTUALLY BOUGHT THOSE THINGS!!! LOL!

kanuck said:
And now we supposed to get a Leica M10 announcement next month as well! What a year it has been. The D600 would round out the year for Nikon nicely. 2012 has certainly been a year to remember it has outdone 2007 for me.

I read that on the M10 as well. Then again no one will get their hands on one for a year or more. M9s are finely available after 2 years. If I saw it correctly, to date only 30,000 M9s have been made. Nikon makes more D800s per month! I just wish someone would come out with an FX rangefinder in $1,500 range.

I was reading the Fuji X100 successors maybe released as well.

We hit this period every 4 years when everyone releases their new systems based on the pro models for the Olympics. I am just having a hard time fathoming what the industry will look like in another 4 years! 64mp sensor with ISO 400,000? I kid but it would be easy to see D4 image quality begin to hit consumer class systems. I just wonder how many point & shoots survive or if they do go the way of the dinosaur.

For me 2007 and the release of the D3 and the start of the trilogy zooms will take some time to beat. As Jonny mentioned earlier, you can now pick up used examples very reasonably. What a great camera for someone dipping their toes in the FF universe, even after 5 years.

kanuck said:
Generally I would advise against waiting, but this year I have to agree with you bjrichus and it is actually better possibly to wait this year. bjirchus does this mean you are waiting for the D400 or will you bite once the D600 is released? :) Lots of other small goodies out to wet your appetite thats for sure! I'm the devil on your shoulder whispering to you and your credit card haha or maybe I am living vicariously through others because I have spent $20 grand on my graduate school so far and still have two semesters left so no more gear for the next year for me...

Dang it!

I just realized that I didn't reply!!! I am sorry.

YES.

WAIT.

WAIT.

WAIT.

Which one?

D600 or D400>

It all depends if I really like what we get with an entry level FX body or feel I have to have what is in the 400 (all assuming they are as the rumors go)...

I have a couple of old FX (AI) manual lenses from film days, that could get some use on a D600 which would make it an attractive, cheap, and relatively easy way to make the jump in my personal digital gear from DX to FX but if the 400 is just *that* much better and there isn't a huge price difference in the bodies, well... Won't be too long now...

And now we supposed to get a Leica M10 announcement next month as well! What a year it has been. The D600 would round out the year for Nikon nicely. 2012 has certainly been a year to remember it has outdone 2007 for me.

kanuck said:
Sony TX200v : First 18mp 1/2.3 CMOS camera that it elementproof

uhm, the element proof part is probably a good thing but the 18 mp part is just a marketing gimmick by sony, I think

Generally I would advise against waiting, but this year I have to agree with you bjrichus and it is actually better possibly to wait this year. bjirchus does this mean you are waiting for the D400 or will you bite once the D600 is released? :) Lots of other small goodies out to wet your appetite thats for sure! I'm the devil on your shoulder whispering to you and your credit card haha or maybe I am living vicariously through others because I have spent $20 grand on my graduate school so far and still have two semesters left so no more gear for the next year for me...

Thanks, TTJ, and all the other comments. If I do not see a D400 soon, I think I will get something like my old Canon 7 with the f/2 Summicron....in digital of course. But, a wider lens would be nice. So, I will look at some of the things like maybe the XPro... I can manually focus and actually for the walk around, this is not a problem at all.

Thanks....

Godless said:
That is incorrect.

Olympus m4/3 - 12mm f/2.0 (it´s bloody awesome too)
Samsung NX - 16mm f/2.4 (very good, not awesome)
Sony NEX- 16mm f/2.8 (not so good optically)

Voigtländer Nokton m4/3 - 17mm f/0.95 (excellent from f/2.0)

Those are not in the 16-20mm range MSmoto was asking for. Not very wide either, 24mm on all of them. Panasonic does have a 8-14 but it is a slow lens (4-5.6).

My feeling is that 2012 is a big year for photography technology.

So much so that I am putting away the usual rule about buying what is out there now, because you don't know what is coming soon. I *am* waiting as we have only got through half the year and are one generation of Nikon dSLR bodies down and ANOTHER possibly on the way?

I seriously wonder if we might see nothing in the Nikon DX dSLR range with a resolution of less than 24MP by next Christmas?

Oh please! Don't gripe about the dSLR bodies from 2008 going away, good though they may have been, as what is likely to be current in the range going into 2013 is going to be way better (all assuming the rumors come to fruition)... We shall see.

Now that will stir it up a bit :-)

Arr.

TaoTeJared said:
Fast wide glass just doesn't exist for smaller bodies.

That is incorrect.

Olympus m4/3 - 12mm f/2.0 (it´s bloody awesome too)
Samsung NX - 16mm f/2.4 (very good, not awesome)
Sony NEX- 16mm f/2.8 (not so good optically)

Voigtländer Nokton m4/3 - 17mm f/0.95 (excellent from f/2.0)

msmoto said:
would you suggest if one wanted a walk around, with good wide angle (16-20mm), f/2.0 or better lens? Also good performance at 6400-12,800 ISO.

When I figure that out, I'll tell you what I bought! You want to give me your D4? ;) Fast wide glass just doesn't exist for smaller bodies. Fuji has a new wide angle convert that was released for the X100. Gets you 24mm equiv. Haven't seen what the light loss is on it though.

I follow Steve Huff and Sans Mirror (Thoms ILC site) all the time to follow the smaller systems. I haven't seen any camera (DX or smaller) that does well "enough" above 64oo for me. The only thing of my X100 I don't like, is the slight shutter delay on AF but the ISO with the fast lens (f/2) hits usable shots at 64oo easily. I generally go MF, zone focus, F5.6-6.3 and the shutter delay is all but gone. I miss a few, but 4 years ago, I had no chance of getting those shots. I was considering a Xpro1 with a Leica M adapter with the Voigtlander 12mm f5.6 or 15mm f4.5 and that would cover that quite well on paper. Haven't seen any tests on that set-up yet. The Xpro with the M adapter would also open up using the Voit 35mm 1.2 and the 50mm 1.1. Expensive, shallow as hell, MF, miss a ton of shots, but the payoff could be good.

From what I understand of the smaller sensors, is that since the pixels are so packed, the lenses must be sharper. Optics are one way but it seems the f/2.8-5.6 is really standard that companies seem to be doing this at. I don't mind it, until I need to stop motion - then the Delete key and a bottle of aspirin are used frequently.

Grand Ideas in my head at this point, D*mn priorities based on needs (new body & computer) will have to keep those thoughts in my back pocket this year.

Just an odd thought or observation, last 6 months (if I take my x100 images out) I'm starting to shoot at longer lengths for me (50-125mm FX) quite a bit more than the past. I have always been wider (18-35mm FX) in the past.

@TaoTeJared

You mentioned the following DX sensor cameras, Sony NEX-7, Canon G1x, Fuji X100, Fuji X-pro1, and as I value your opinion regarding what is going on in today's camera world, which of the DX cameras with interchangeable lens, the above plus any others, would you suggest if one wanted a walk around, with good wide angle (16-20mm), f/2.0 or better lens? Also good performance at 6400-12,800 ISO.

Thank you...

I have had a vision about trading all my Nikon gear away and getting the OMD + 12mm f/2, 45mm f/1.8 and 75mm f/1.8 primes plus the Panasonic 100-300 zoom. And ofc the Samyang 7.5mm fisheye. That set could serve me for years.

When it comes to IQ, I would rate the OMD higher than the Canon G1X (af too slow and uncertain). Sure, the AF-C sucks in OMD but I never use AF-C anyway.

2012 seems to be giving us something of everything. From point and shoots, to full frame, high resolution, black and white only sensors, new formats, you name it! Thats why this year has really stood out I think in terms of technology. I knew I was missing a few significant releases from my list thanks spraynpray your right that is a very exciting micro 4/3 release. The OM2 was a very cool camera. Classic design that was very popular.

donaldejose said:
I only follow Nikon developments but I would have to say we will look back at this year as a "big year" for Nikon: lots of new products releases; boundaries we never thought would be crossed were like 36 mp in a $3,000 camera and 24 mp in a $700 camera; new connectivity options in the D4 and others to come; FX for less than $2,000 (maybe?); DX exceeding our expected capabilities for the DX format (D400?).

So true and think about what this will do to the price of the perfect D700?

I don't consider p&s fantastic or the cameras that update every year or on a cycle to really mean much. Those are expected. But this time period of does show something for the mid-rage cameras for sure and I do think you have touched on something.

It seems the demand on technology or maybe better put, consumers demand for better imaging technology rather than just better marketing numbers is becoming evident. Consumers are becoming better versed in what is actually good. Really for the last 4 years and even this year IQ from most has not increased much at all. Usability or the non-IQ related items still hasn't increased that much outside of the high end systems for almost 6+ years either. For the last few months something has changed. AF systems, Sensors, lenses have all increased with a big leap forward and new standards are being set.

Some camera's are have increased the standards for sure.

All of these have for IQ: Sony NEX-7, Canon G1x, Fuji X100, Fuji X-pro1, D800.

Non IQ outstanding-ness: Olympus OMD5 & Nikon J1/V1 for their AF.

Other exceptionable systems: Leica M9 Monochrome - Full Frame, 18mp of B&W recorded at each pixel. Sigma's SD1 (dropping of price) for the Foveon with each color at each pixel. (shame it is stuck at a sub-par system.) Canon MkIII video.

When comparisons come up, those camera's above is what everyone is comparing to or with and have set the standards and will continue to do so for the next year or well beyond. The D3s is still the High iso king - on many levels.

It seems that more and more Consumers are willing to spend $1,000-2,000+ and pushing companies for all around quality where a few years ago, that would have been way, way too much. Think of the M4/3 systems, not much has changed in 3-4 years. Same MP, same AF, same plastic bodies, barely any improvement in IQ. Now Oly has upped the game in a big way. Lightning fast AF, 5 way sensor shift, weather sealing, much better high iso handling. Fuji has shown that the IQ from DX sensors can rival the first gen FX sensors and beat them in many ways. Nikon with the J1 has shown that compacts can have lightning fast AF and small sensors can knock off m4/3rd sensors in IQ. The G1x for a high-end p&s travel camera is amazing. 36mp D800!

These are the first in a new set of standards that companies will have to meet. The question is, who will be the first to combine them all? Oly has come close with the OMD5 - but the sensor still has the high iso limits. If they can raise that bar, they may win the mid level market.

I only follow Nikon developments but I would have to say we will look back at this year as a "big year" for Nikon: lots of new products releases; boundaries we never thought would be crossed were like 36 mp in a $3,000 camera and 24 mp in a $700 camera; new connectivity options in the D4 and others to come; FX for less than $2,000 (maybe?); DX exceeding our expected capabilities for the DX format (D400?).

I loved my OM2, spraynpray. I've never seen a more beautiful 35mm viewfinder. We've got to be at a place where digital film would be more viable than it once was since everything has become more miniaturized. I would love to have digital film to put in my OM2. How about it, science?

Oh, you shouldn't have pointed that OM-D out, Andrew. Now I've got a new piece of gear to ogle, and it is such a cute little camera! I'm already invested in a mirrorless system that I like, so it's doubtful I'll ever get one, though.

It just keeps getting better for photography. It's also great because it means the used gear from previous plateaus come into the used market.