WaterEngineer said:
DPReview is now owned by Amazon. Please do not forget that factoid. So for me, and this is just for me. When it comes to their reviews I will read the basic facts but place little value on their ratings. Why?

Again, this just for me, as I have no proof. I am suspect of their ratings because I have to wonder if the ratings are influenced by potential sales.

Well, they're emphatic about Amazon not exerting editorial control over them. (This recently came up in their forums, when someone asked why there wasn't an Amazon rep posting there to explain their position about sales related questions that came up there.)

As for them "saying three year old technology is just as good as something current," I don't believe they did this. They just left their review from a few years ago online.

dpreview is a very good site for basic technical performance evaluations of new digital cameras, with a good historical record of older ones. They don't claim to update old reviews, nor do they claim to offer complete evaluations of the usability of cameras under professional conditions. For what it is, I find it quite useful, but I don't look to them for what they don't try to offer (including a rating system that lets you compare two cameras released years apart.)

After reading the score explanation again it seems as if the 7D was scored with the new system although it received the old award...

Please note that DPReview changed their rating system since the review of the 7D and they specifically state that the older scores cannot be compared to the new ones. The old scoring system has got the ratings "recommended" and "highly recommended" whereas the new one has got a silver and gold award.

fishnose said:
Amazing that they could come to such a conclusion.
Total score for D800 is 82%, for 7D it is 84%.
According to them the 7D is way better at 'Metering & focus accuracy' for instance. And almost as good at jpeg image quality. Good grief, one wonders what they're on.

To see a comparison of their scores for D800 and 7D, go to the 'Conclusion' page of the new DPReview for D800 at
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d800-d800e/28, check out the scores table at the bottom, click on 'Compare To' and add the 7D. You'll see a direct comparison of the 2 cameras' scores.
They think the 7D has better Features, better Performance, better Ergonomics & handling, better Video.... wow.

Yep, in 1966 the old ford I had prob scored higher than my current car but that doesnt make it a better car.

I for one rarely look at DP Review. I check Nikon Rumors every time I get on the Internet. So that is my rating of those two sites. As to CycleKraft's posts, I like the fact that he shared with us his view having used both cameras. I also waited quite awhile before getting a couple of D7000s. I believe it helped me to see private reviewers comments. And still no D400 is sight.......

fishnose said:
Oh I see - I thought this was Nikon Rumors Forum. In other words, about Nikon cameras and lenses. Technical stuff tends to turn up on a forum like this.

Apparently you want to belittle discussions other than those pertaining to the particular thing you're interested in.

Hi,

Hum, I am belittling DPReview, something I likely shouldn't do.

Did you take that personally? I will apologize if you are a supporter.

My best,

Mike

We were all so joyfull when the reviews put the D800 sensor scoring at the top, ahead of the medium format. None (perhaps with a few exceptions) here were discarding them as invalid category mix and match. But oh boy thats a different story when someone rank down our beloved Nikon, especially against the enemy.

Double standards?

Perhaps it is true that Canon have properties more appealing to some or that the review is just crap. For example I wish the D800 had the swivel display of the 60D, like my Coolpix had.

We are all human and by nature we are all biased. I find funny how our self-esteem get so entangled with a brand weather phone, computer, cars, clothing, religion or nationality. Any attack on what we think defines us apart becomes so personal.

We are indeed very weird animals and more than ever the product of our virtual environment.

I like to think of mysel as a free thinker but perhaps I am falling in the same prestige traps.

I think reviews serve a good purpose and are needed. When come to equipment, the more voice there is the more enlighted the selection will be.

Thanks to the many comparisions, I know my D800 choise is a good one for me despite having to deal with its quirks, I still find the D4 very tempting.

A 7D? mmm... nah, no thanks.

Oh, great...the only thing so far that has made sense is CycleKraft's pyramid.....ha, ha, ha...

I am always fascinated by "ratings". I just happen to have a Smart fortwo. And Consumer Reports really did a put down on this car. However, for getting around town, parking, traffic, and 37-40mpg (about 6 l/100 km) and towing behind a motorhome... it is "better" than a Porsche. For touring, lots of miles... in years past a Ferrari required so much maintenance, a VW was better.

In cameras.... why oh why cannot we understand the same rules apply. Is a D4 better than a D800? Or a D300s? Or? The D300s is better in some circumstances. Studio...D800. Sports D4. I really think each camera has pros and cons...

And, sad as it may be....this applies to photographers as well. Some better in certain areas. Landscapes may be someone's real talent. Yet with models, especially if from "New York" some photographers are intimmidated and cannot shoot themselves out of a bag. Actually, the "amateurs" are even more difficult to work with and require a longer warm up period. So, which photographer is "better"?

Maybe camera reviews should focus more on pointing out positive points and the less positive points, forget about some artificial rating....oh well...

this is the most important part of the d800 review relative to this discussion.

Scoring is relative only to the other cameras in the same category.

As such you can't compare dx to fx as they are different categories

Mike Gunter said:
In a number of the posts here we hint at where and how can we become better as photographers by learning from others, getting classes, and getting mentoring - I don't think DPReview ever comes up, and there's a good reason for that.

Pity.

My best,

Mike

Oh I see - I thought this was Nikon Rumors Forum. In other words, about Nikon cameras and lenses. Technical stuff tends to turn up on a forum like this.

Apparently you want to belittle discussions other than those pertaining to the particular thing you're interested in.

warprints said:
fishnose - is your intent with your original post to say that the Canon 7D is better than the D800, or are you pointing out the incredulous assetion by DPReview that the 7D is better? You seem to be subtly defending DPReview's assertions. What's the point?

LOL
In my original post I said "Good grief, one wonders what they're on."
I thought it was pretty obvious I was pointing out how ridiculous the scoring is if the 7D can get better scores that the D800. But obviously the irony was lost on the way.

Mike Gunter said:
In a number of the posts here we hint at where and how can we become better as photographers by learning from others, getting classes, and getting mentoring - I don't think DPReview ever comes up, and there's a good reason for that.

I 100% agree. I have learned so much in these forums, and I am so thankful for the users here. Pretty much everyone here respects the opinions of other people, which is rare to find in most forums now a days.

Hi all,

DPReview could be the 'Mother of all Photography Websites', but it isn't.

Objectivity in their reviews, is _generally_ met under their own lackadaisical rules, but sometimes, as in suggesting that something like a 3-year-old technology is the same as current (when it specifically is not) makes you go, 'huh?'

Their forums (fora - if one really cares about plural nouns) are just plain pissy, as if no one really cares to help anyone, and that's truly a shame. It seems to be a complete lack of adult supervision, as if the place as run by a pair thirteen-year-old's saying 'pull my finger'. There is so little, beyond insults, that is written, it's hard to take anything seriously.

In a number of the posts here we hint at where and how can we become better as photographers by learning from others, getting classes, and getting mentoring - I don't think DPReview ever comes up, and there's a good reason for that.

Pity.

My best,

Mike

NSXType-R said:
Not to mention the battery recalls...

Now I will receive mine sooner with everybody cancelling their D800 orders to purchase 7D's ;-)

Pierre said:
Nah! The result is genuine, the problem is that they used a D800 copy with the misaligned focus point problem, sensor oil splashing, over heating batteries, locking firmware and uncalibrated lenses, all of which will be resolved by the time I use mine ;-)

Not to mention the battery recalls...

Nah! The result is genuine, the problem is that they used a D800 copy with the misaligned focus point problem, sensor oil splashing, over heating batteries, locking firmware and uncalibrated lenses, all of which will be resolved by the time I use mine ;-)

TaoTeJared said:
Read the words, not the score.

This. I like the DPReview reviews, but there's several things I don't like about the way DPReview is run - namely the picture competitions where people can scew results in their favour and review scores/comparisons.

First off, it is just lazy of them to put DX and FX cameras together.

I have never seen DP review ever "re-score" a single camera. I got a 90% on a calculus test in my first year of college. Sure as hell can't score that now, and neither can a camera 2 1/2 years later among it peers. Their scores are arbitrary anyway. Change the person reviewing it, and you change the score.

The review is 28 pages long, the score is 1/4 of one page.

Read the words, not the score.

Well played Geoff.

My camera phone is better than the D800 for pocketability.

Everyone is equally entitled to an opinion but that doesn't mean all opinions are equally valid.

fishnose - is your intent with your original post to say that the Canon 7D is better than the D800, or are you pointing out the incredulous assetion by DPReview that the 7D is better? You seem to be subtly defending DPReview's assertions. What's the point?

adamz said:You shouldn't ever compare cameras only on paper

<groan> That doesn't mean a thing. Hopefully dp don't only 'compare cameras on paper'. Hopefully they actually USE them, and then tell us how it went.
'Comparing only on paper' would mean only comparing spec sheets. Which would be extremely silly, wouldn't it.

@cyclekraft: Brilliant. Thank you.

Ive always considered the 7D overrated tho. I have yet to have a good experience using one. The fact that the AF was more than up to par with the D7000 was nice. The D300s has Af in a class of it's own...