Of course you all realise that competition is only there to get trade away from other outlets, so when the other outlets all close down, there is no (or less) need for competition - or even good customer service, so we all pay more in the end.

I lived in France for eight years during which the French cartel-forming protectionist mentality drove me nuts so I am all for competition, but it is very hard for small companies to generate enough business to make a profit after all overheads especially when we could be headed into an internet-based business environment with very low overheads - perhaps the manufacturers will have to open demonstration centres so people can handle the gear before they buy off the internet? Perhaps the manufacturers will sell direct - then what? People need to earn money to buy stuff and competition reduces people in work effectively so the marketplace shrinks and prices go up far more than they went down because manufacturing in higher quantities has a massive pay-back.

If you can afford all these toys, perhaps you should afford to buy locally.

Just my 2c worth that's all....

I'd rather support local businesses, but they are going away quickly. One would think in Tampa, FL., there would be much demand for good equipment, but it's pretty much Best Buy or nothing these days. Even Ritz Camera has closed all their stores nearby. There is one about 45 minutes drive away, but they don't discount and the last time I was in there, they had dramatically reduced their inventory. Plus I was listening to the sales guy with a customer and he clearly had no clue about photography. He probably sold shoes the week before in a different mall store. If Best Buy closes (it was rumored they weren't in great shape), there'd be no other options.

While I have purchased both my cameras and all my lenses locally, I've had to buy many of my accessories like filters (B&W) online (I found the best deals at Amazon for them) as no one carries them locally. I just received a 32GB Sandisk memory card today. I ordered it from Adorama for $46. It's over $75 at Best Buy (last time I looked).

The day is likely coming when ordering our gear online is the only option we have. I find that kind of sad......

The percentage would depend largely on the item and my urgency for needing it. For instance, I just bought a 70-200 from the same dealer and even at full retail (which I would have paid anywhere), they're barely making any money on the transaction due to a lack of volume, so I guess the issue cuts both ways.
The bottom line is that we're all a little better off having local options. The alternative is all these little guys being starved out by bigger competitors and consumers having little or no choice except for the big box or online retailers. While that may save us a few dollars (or pounds or euros) here and there, in the long run it's not good for anyone for many different reasons.

Well I just got into DSLR and did but my gear at a local shop (part of a small chain) that would match on-line prices (after doing a bunch on on-line research and starting to put together an on-line order.) I probably wouldn't have bought it there had they not been price-competitive. The salesman walked me though my options. I had a good idea what I wanted...in fact I planned on getting the Canon T2i but after handling the Nikon D3100 and looking at their interface I got it and never looked back...I love it. (It fit my tiny hands better.)

Sadly, we just learned yesterday that this chain (Penn Camera) is closing it's doors. There's another local store that I'll need to check out.

Nice story proudgeek, one which confirms the saying "you pays your money and you takes your choice"! Now the question is what would you have done if they had been $150 dearer? What percentage does it take to buy online?

I wanted to add a personal note to this thread. I buy both local and from the large online chains so I have some basis for comparison. Recently I was shopping for a tripod and as it's a fairly expensive item, I wanted to play around with a few. The guy in our local shop spent 20 minutes going through the various benefits of each (I was looking for something with a ton of flexibility). Afterwards, I went home and just out of curiosity checked the price of what they were selling against the online chains. Sure enough, I could have saved $50 or so on a carbon fiber tripod and a quality ballhead.
In the end, I decided to go with the local retailer. So I bought it and two days later took it on a trip. Usually I strap the tripod to my gear bag and carry it on, but I didn't want my wife to see a new carbon fiber tripod (and didn't want to answer the questions) so I packed it in my luggage (carefully, surrounded by clothing with the delicate parts wrapped in socks). To my chagrin, upon removing it once we got to our destination, I found a lever made from cast-aluminum had snapped en route. I was bummed. It didn't kill functionality or anything, but who wants something brand new to break like that? So I shot for a week, came home and brought it into the shop and explained what had happened. (As they've all sworn never to tell my wife about any purchase they fully understood my rationale for packing it). The sales guy took the trouble to call the manufacturer on my behalf. They're sending a replacement part, which my dealer took the time to learn how to replace, which he said he'd happily do at no charge, since I'm something of a regular (at least as far as amateurs go). Happy customer.
Now I'm not saying that B&H or Aldorama would NOT have replaced the part or otherwise stood behind the product, but I can tell you that it was quite a bit easier to go in to a place where I'm known, look someone in the eye, and explain my problem. I'm sure that contributed to my walking away with a satisfactory solution. Lesson learned. Sometimes $50 is worth a lot more than $50.

SkintBrit said:
It's interesting the number of you that think your local stores used prices are way too dear. Never seems to work to our advantage in the price they offer you when you want to sell! When you come to buy it's always in VGC and very rare, when you come to sell there's always a fault with it, and it's not really something they buy!

That is why I ebay non-stop. There is always someone out there who wants what I have and has what I want. If only everything else was that easy!

It's interesting the number of you that think your local stores used prices are way too dear. Never seems to work to our advantage in the price they offer you when you want to sell! When you come to buy it's always in VGC and very rare, when you come to sell there's always a fault with it, and it's not really something they buy!

I guess I have a mixed story, most of my Nikon gear I have used Adorama. After I had 70% of my equipment I started going to my local camera store to purchase things but since I like many others waited to buy the "niffty" and not needed stuff until later, they usually don't carry what I want in stock. Good example is the 16mm fisheye. It seems that is hard to get for most anyone, even with Adorama I had to wait. They were honest with me and said I would have better luck getting it online. They could have gotten it but they wouldn't have had a clue how long it would be before they got one.

I do purchase things like monopods, tripods, light stands, ect...ect. I have purchased 2 SB-700's from them and that was before Nikon started to enforce the price on it. I understand that the local guy is more, he doesn't get the discount for buying in bulk plus has more overhead than most (not all) online dealers and the tax advantage is obvious to buy online.

I believe they make more off me buying the little stuff than Nikon gear anyway. My local dealer is really helpful, for me I could borrow a lens and try it out before I had to buy it, with an online dealer this won't happen. They have instructors come in at least once a month for various topics if you want to take a class for a reasonable price (usually from 20-35 dollars depending on the topic and equipment needed). They repair cameras on site, mainly older film cameras, but also will clean your DSLR sensor. They have been in photography for over 40 years between the husband and wife team that run the store.

I guess my motto is if they have it right then and there I will buy it, but if they would have to order it. I buy it online.

If the price is close I like instant gratification and like to buy locally. If I can save ~75$ I usually order from Amazon/Adorama/B&H

bjrichus said:
My local store is usually equipped with three used lenses... three tubs sounds like a photographic gold mine! :-(

That's what I was thinking.

@El_Pickerel -
What you described is why Nikon is enforcing it's pricing policies (the best they can) for stores who gouge people since they don't sell anything, and to keep the big box stores from undercutting the smaller shops so the smaller shops can make a living. That is not to say some store owners really need to wake up to what people can get from online retailers or even ebay. My local store, although really good in most regards, their prices on used equipment is ridiculous. $1,200 for a 85mm 1.4 AF-D lens - I can buy a new one for that. They do the ole' used car salesman deal with trading equipment in and applying it to the other used equipment or just rent it to someone to try for 2 weeks. One worker said they paid for that 85mm 15 times over from people renting it.

The way Nikon is pricing their higher end new glass is really getting up there. You can't get the better stuff for under $900 anymore except for a couple of primes. Every f2.8 & f4 is over $1k and the 1.4s are all over $1,700. Canon, Sony Zeiss, Zeiss lenses are the same way though.

El_Pickerel said:
...didn't mind sifting through three tubs of used lenses with me to see what was there.

My local store is usually equipped with three used lenses... three tubs sounds like a photographic gold mine! :-(

I don't like to go to the one local camera shop even to check things out... their store is horrendously organized so you can't even really look at the used lenses, just ask them what they have. (They are all stacked several deep in a display case, with the caps on and all clustered so you can't even see the focal lengths / apertures / anything to identify them by on the side). Their prices are insane... I once looked at the 105mm/f2.8 VR macro lens there and their asking price for a used example there was about the same as the MSRP of a new one. A new 70-200/f2.8 VRII there was $3200 before 7% sales tax IIRC. As much as I want to support a local camera shop, I'm not doing that to the tune of getting overcharged that heavily. Additionally, the folks working there were really not the best salesmen... I once witnessed someone who was very much an entry-level shooter just getting their camera back out come in and ask what they should use to shoot their kids' sports. Naturally, the owner immediately presented them with a 70-200mm/f2.8 lens and told them nothing less would work and that it would be very expensive but they needed it. Guy was apparently very discouraged by this, and I am pretty sure they did not make that sale.

Doesn't mean I'll just buy online... I did get a new lens once in a shop, probably the only camera place in Maine, when my kit lens broke and I needed a wide angle lens for hiking for another week. Given my experience with my local camera store, I was ready to go in guns blazing and argue for a lower price. Planned to use some kind of argument along the lines of 'I could order [insert lens here] online with next day shipping for less!' However, their prices were reasonable! Before sales tax they were about the same price as you could get the lens from an online retailer, the guy working there who was helping me was knowledgeable and didn't mind sifting through three tubs of used lenses with me to see what was there.

iris chrome said:
At least nobody is going to complain that their local Nikon dealer is "ripping them off" anymore.

Now everyone is saying Nikon is ripping them off because they have to pay MSRP. :)

Best Buy works well in the suburbia US, but to assume I will automatically work in another part of the world was a bad bet. 11 stores in 1.5 years in the same area? Dumb.

iris chrome said:
This is pathetic. What was their plan? Open 11 stores in a period of 1.5 yrs then bail at the first sign of trouble? They've spread themselves too thin too quick and they obviously didn't take the time to gauge how they'd be received.

On the other hand, I think this thread is a nice look back into the past 2 years. I know most will disagree with me but this truly justifies Nikon's latest pricing policy. At least nobody is going to complain that their local Nikon dealer is "ripping them off" anymore.

.
.

what about all the riots

I would get out of the UK also if I lived there, the place would soon be controlled by people who are not native to that country.

however, this is not a forum to dicuss politics and the "people" that are allowed to live in that country.

maybe they think with the losses from the riots, not covered by insurance, and the outlook for the future, it is time to cut their losses and leave.

I would

boo

SkintBrit said:
I didn't want to start a new thread with this one (it's not a Nikon rumor), but Best Buy is pulling out of the U.K. saying they haven't been able to make a profit over here.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15616445

This is pathetic. What was their plan? Open 11 stores in a period of 1.5 yrs then bail at the first sign of trouble? They've spread themselves too thin too quick and they obviously didn't take the time to gauge how they'd be received.

On the other hand, I think this thread is a nice look back into the past 2 years. I know most will disagree with me but this truly justifies Nikon's latest pricing policy. At least nobody is going to complain that their local Nikon dealer is "ripping them off" anymore.

poster said:
Dodging taxes is as American as an apple pie. I will be enjoying the tax free ride until Congress comes to bust my balls about it. Until then YUPPPIEE!!!!

It's important to note the difference between the customers. We have the pros and we have the amateurs.

A pro is spending shitload of money. He is looking for a good deal/great service and even better relationship with the store. So if an emergency purchase comes around, he can always count on the store.

An amateur, doesn't need the close relationship/service that a local retailer is capable of providing. All he cares about is the price.

Very true, which is why I love the variety in Los Angeles (where I hail from) I've several times had to run to the store because I've crapped up gear and needed it for a shoot the next day.

I do understand that unfortunately most of the members here dont live in a photostore rich area so It must be complicated. In LA I can walk into Samys and Buy a 14-24mm or D3s right off the shelf (assuming nikon is not behind in production) whereas a small outskirt shop like Valencia Camera has to place a special order to get one in stock. a place like Best buy doesn't even carry either one at all... In a way that is why the internet is so valuable to many photographers...

Other than games, I don't really buy anything from Best Buy. We have a 50 inch plasma that's been going fine, and since we don't have any need to switch to a 3D television, I think there really isn't anything I need to buy from them. Movies I pretty much get from Amazon. Why go to a physical store when you can have it delivered, oftentimes for free?

And camera stuff I definitely don't buy from them. Their stuff is overpriced oftentimes. Besides, B and H offers better service. J and R, not so much.

I didn't want to start a new thread with this one (it's not a Nikon rumor), but Best Buy is pulling out of the U.K. saying they haven't been able to make a profit over here.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15616445

Thanks - haven't been to the Camera Store as it's far away.
Repairs with McBain - they took the Tokina 11-16 and i got it back roughly 6 weeks; didn't have to pay anything.
Service was impeccable as they called the home and tried to leave voice mail.

nfiorito said:
the local shop was in Thunder Bay, ON.
I think you have to spend the money at any rate, I'm not sure if a store/nikon would ever cover shipping, although I don't have any experience with repairs or warranties. I used to work in a bike shop, however, and it was about 50/50 between customers paying and the shop/vendor paying.
Whenever i'm in AB, though, I visit the Camera Store in Calgary. Best shop I've ever seen, price and service-wise, even when it's super busy (which is often).

Well, you don't have to proclaim it to the world, either, poster. ;-)
I don't know if I agree with your analysis of pro/amateur buyers. I think you're just jealous of the 'amateurs' because all the big retailers are based in NY!

Dodging taxes is as American as an apple pie. I will be enjoying the tax free ride until Congress comes to bust my balls about it. Until then YUPPPIEE!!!!

It's important to note the difference between the customers. We have the pros and we have the amateurs.

A pro is spending shitload of money. He is looking for a good deal/great service and even better relationship with the store. So if an emergency purchase comes around, he can always count on the store.

An amateur, doesn't need the close relationship/service that a local retailer is capable of providing. All he cares about is the price.

ted2001 said:
I live in the SF Bay Area and prefer buying locally as a matter of conscience. But... I just priced the DR-6 right angle finder at local stores and it was priced at 246, 239 and 265 (closest store). Add almost 9% sales tax for a price of at least $260.00.

Adorama or B&H have it for $200.00, with express shipping (2/3 days) available for less than $20.00. Since my purchase does not constitute an emergency, I'll buy from them.

It's no wonder local stores are going out of business. The prices on the D300s are the same, but the "rip-off" pricing on the small stuff (like DR-6) keeps me away entirely.

Damn, only 9% sales tax? In Denmark we pay 25% sales tax :-|

TheGrunt said:
hey nfiorito, is that a shop in Edmonton?
There're a few big name retailers here - and the prices aren't cheap.
If I were to buy from Henrys' (online), and the body/lenses need repair, wouldn't I need to spend money to send the stuff to Nikon?

the local shop was in Thunder Bay, ON.
I think you have to spend the money at any rate, I'm not sure if a store/nikon would ever cover shipping, although I don't have any experience with repairs or warranties. I used to work in a bike shop, however, and it was about 50/50 between customers paying and the shop/vendor paying.
Whenever i'm in AB, though, I visit the Camera Store in Calgary. Best shop I've ever seen, price and service-wise, even when it's super busy (which is often).

flettercc said:
I work at ***** ***** ***** In Fort Wayne In. I deal daily with people who shop the internet. We get beat by the Sales Tax 7%. Most of the time our prices by themselves are competitive. Be aware that we cannot go to a supplier and by a truckload to get discounts. However this is a rare occurrence. Best Buy and Wall-mart don,t have our service and often do not beat our prices. B&H and Adorama most often beat us on sales tax which can be significant

I might have to stop by. I go up there fairly often for work stuff.