Wow that editing software makes the image look somehow unreal.....

Heck, I started this thread, so I thought I would bring it back up just to make some observations. As I was in the business of "hurt feelings" and dealt with a lot of folks who are emotionally over invested in such things as photos, DIY projects, almost anything in which one puts a lot of "self" into, it came to mind to throw out a few comments and reassurances.

When we comment on a photo, it is always from a personal, experiential perspective. Some of us may have more experience, but the comments are, hopefully, made in the context of adding new information to the "knowledge base" of the photo's creator, so as to potentially improve future photos. And those making comments should be guided by this idea, adding more information.

For those new on NRF, some of us will give very helpful information and we all hope this is taken as an attempt to assist in one's progress toward being a better photographer. And, that the feedback is done so in a positive context and should be construed in that way.

We also appreciate some humor in the comments....as from Jonnyapple above, ha, ha, ha.

jonnyapple said:
Msmoto, I saw this and thought about this thread (not because the criticism applied to your photo!).

from xkcd

Love it!

Msmoto, I saw this and thought about this thread (not because the criticism applied to your photo!).

from xkcd

I took the unedited photo down as it was and just too ghastly on Flicker

Well, no one wants to play, so here is what I did with it....

One more time....

If you want to play this silly game, edit this photo as you would like to see it in final, PM me with an email address and I will send a 3.5 Mb file to you. You can edit and post on this thread. The image was shot with a D200, 12-24mm f/4.0 Nikkor, at f/4.0 0.4 sec on a tripod. ISO 160. It has had some editing I think as the file I changed to JPEG was about 35Mb as DNG. Here it is, I all also fiddle with it and post my version in a day or so. The point is to see what the Nikon equipment can record which can be brought out through editing.

Well, folks, this photo was a real dilemma as to editing because of many factors. The model had on unusual makeup. The lighting was just available w/o flash. But, the lens.... one of my favorites. See PAD for the cropped eye. I really think I must be nuts to be getting a new camera as the 135mm f/2.0 on the D90 is very sweet. This shot above could be edited even more for reproduction such as reducing the overall contrast and dropping exposure... none of this is about the photo, however, just so we can all think about things without getting our feelings hurt.

The intent of this thread was just to allow some learning time. And I will stick up another in a day or so in order that more comments can be made. The next one may be something with more room for editing. And if possible, I will figure out how it can be pulled off Flicker to one's Desktop, edited and posted here. Maybe even some examples of in camera editing with the new toy!

All this until the administrators jerk the thread. But, this photo is SO NIKON!

Rx4Photo said:
Personally, I've had mixed emotions about posting comments about others' photos on the PAD thread. In my eye, everyone's photo shows effort, desire to shoot, and provides for all of us a tiny window into the lives (and eyes) of the poster. The pics don't have to be Nat Geo or Sports Illustrated caliber - they just have to be something we thought was cool, or interesting enough to share with others. Often the poster him or herself seems to be the only person that sees the pic as neat and doesn't get a pat on the back for a post - but I'll bet somebody out there is learning something from that picture. I can't tell you how many times I've tried to imitate some of the talent I've seen here. From any of the pics I think we all learn and hone our skills.

+1

msmoto, I thought the original was a great picture, but the edited version is even nicer. To me, toning down the background made a big difference.

Third revision

Note, the makeup was the model, simply a participant in the Grampapapoolza.

elvishefer said:
Msmoto - Do you trust your monitor's color calibration/brightness/contrast? I ask because your words and the photo don't sync up on mine. Can you check the image on a second (and different make/model/location) screen? Maybe my monitor is out of whack. Something isn't right.

Oh, shucks, I forgot to say I darkened the entire photo to bring it in line with the actual skin tone. What this did was to make the changes difficult to see. If one opens two windows on this thread and compare the two side by side, then the subtle changes in saturation might appear. I will admit I have not calibrated the monitor on my new Macbook and need to do this. The skin tone on this gal was almost green. On Flicker enlarged it is close, but may need a bit more magenta to be more pleasing. And this is exactly what this thread is so very good for, a discussion of the technical struggles.

I will do a third revision, now with the suggestions in hand, and in a few minutes... we will see. Thanks

Msmoto - Do you trust your monitor's color calibration/brightness/contrast? I ask because your words and the photo don't sync up on mine. Can you check the image on a second (and different make/model/location) screen? Maybe my monitor is out of whack. Something isn't right.

This is uncanny. After posting, I edited the photo like I thought I could to bring it to what I would say is close to what I like and here it is:

I desaturated some areas, the lips being one. Lightened the eyes. Added color tint and changed background to drop out some of the brightness. Darkened the skin. Actually blurred the forehead and did some fiddling to drop out the veins. This is almost exactly what she looked like. A dark skinned Florida girl. Best viewed at large size on Flicker by clicking on the photo.
The lens, 135mm, f/2.0 is incredible. Thanks for participating. I think it is amazing how we all think so similarly. Oh, I cropped very slightly to bring the subject to the left side.

The shoot was Grampapalooza which is on my website as a link, a tribute to a musician friend in St Augustine, Florida. The project was to look like a series of "snapshots" and if one goes to the site and looks, some are rather interesting. Hope the reference to my site is not a violation of policy, but is done to show more photos. And it was done with no fees being charged.

@msmoto - I tried to edit the photo to show what I would do but the file was reduced too much and the saturation was to high for me to do much with it.

I love Nikon's colors but that damn magenta channel color. It never holds detail.

Only three things I would do:
-Add a layer to desaturate the lips to get either smooth out the color or bring back some detail.
-Add a layer to smooth out the skin just a bit
-Knock down the vibrancy of the yellow background - to me it is just a bit too bright and distracting.

Otherwise I think it is a good photo!
Oh and I would shoot it at F2-3.3 to get the ISO down - but that is my style. I want that lens!

I can not edit a photo to save my life so I will just have to comment on it. For me its not a subject I would shoot but like the photo. I think its a bit on the bright side and I have not made up my mind about the "purple/pink" eyeliner and lipstick, on one hand its too much and the other kinda cool (not sure if that was what she had on or the colors were "pushed" to the extreme). It also depends on the usage, if its for a glamor shot, fix the natural blimishes we all have as individuals but I don't think that is the purpose for this; so I leave them, gives it a more personal touch.

Some of this may have been when it was cropped and uploaded so not sure if this is the way you wanted it to look either.

OK, I started this thread and so I think I am going to put up a photo and call it SHOOT ME DOWN. To preface, this photo can be edited, cropped, retouched or what ever you want to do with it and you will not hurt my feelings. There are changes I might make with this photo myself, but I presenting it here as it is on Flicker. Originally it was put up to demo the 135mm f/2.0 Nikkor. As many of us know, these things look one way in our computer and somehow look different once posted. So, do what ever you like or just offer comments.

The purpose of this is not to make me feel bad, but to allow others to see how a photo might be edited by another photographer. That is, hopefully this will be an educational thread. I will put up the photos if no one else does, but if one is posted for comment, it becomes fair game.

And if the administrators decide this is not what they want on NRF, that is the way it is and the thread goes. So here is the photo:

1/250th sec f/6.3 ISO 800 Nikon D90 135mm f/2.0 Nikkor

I see your point Scooby, but on the other hand, at least posting for critique on this site gets you people who are going to know the gear you used?

Well I admit there have been a couple of shots I posted in the PAD that I thought were okay but some really liked (this really helps motivate me to keep at it). Then there are a few shots that looked great on my computer and after I posted them was like uh....I must have been dreaming I had a great photo when I posted that. I enjoy the PAD thread, I should post more often but admit I have gone out and taken pictures just to post on the PAD and when I get home and review what I got, nothing jumps out at me as I like that. If I don't like it then I have a hard time wanting to post my name with it.

There are some shots posted by others on the PAD that I really like the subject, maybe not the overall photo but I learn from it. Then others that I like the overall look of the photo but the subject is nothing I would take. Then there are a few that I would die to have taken myself. I crave landscapes, wildlife and usually anthing with a motor vehicle, I am not much of a portrait or social event shooter (I would say night concerts might be an exception on this).

I do like the idea of the "SHOOT TO KILL/SHOOT ME DOWN" thread, both with pre and post editing. I believe I would learn the most from that. I do not have any real editing software, I use Nikon View 2, I am probably about 50 shots away from accidentally ordering a copy of Nikon Capture NX2 though. If this ever started I can see two problems besides the copy right problem is: some people have a hard time giving constructive criticism and take it too far. The other is some people think they are perfect and if anyone tried to tell them otherwise...well you get the idea.

I do believe most of the people here would be fine but there is always that 10% that screw it up for everyone else. Maybe a basic rating system could be used such as:

Basic questions:
Do you like the photo
Would you have taken the photo
Who would you share this photo with:
A. File 13
B. Yourself
C. Your family/friends
D. Put it up as artwork in your house
E. Have it as part of an art showcase and/or sell copies of it.

Something you would like to see different about it (use 50 words or less, if you cant be constructive about it- leave blank)
Something you really like about it (unlimited)

It just a thought, I have a lot to learn. Somethings I am good at, others well lets just say help is not the word. I believe it would at least help me improve faster than my current learning curve. I hope it could do the same for others.

As an EDIT*

I agree this would need to be kept seperate from the PAD thread, I also agree that moderating this could and probably would be a nightmare.

Interesting that critique is an issue here. The way I see it, this forum is for Nikon Rumors - so more about Nikon and everything about it. The primary focus isn't 'photography for the sake of photography'. That a PAD thread exists here is great for community, but I don't visit this forum looking to have my work critiqued. I'm sure many of you could deliver excellent critiques, but doing it here is like arguing Nikon vs. Canon with a guest while shooting a wedding - it's not expected and contextually off-base.

I think if I wanted a photo critiqued, I'd rather take it to a community like 1x, where the focus is photography, not 'Nikon'. And truth be told, I probably wouldn't want the images I post in PAD to be critiqued. I post there for the motivation I get from participating in something - and I'm guilty of posting some real stinkers just to maintain the routine.

I would be lying if I said I haven't learned a lot from the community here and its collective centuries of photography experience. This is a great source of information for Nikon gear, how to use it, what it can do and where it falls short (and when it's going to hit the market, or not). I just think there are other places to get photo critiques that are better suited to the task.

Hi all,

My objection went straight to nothing more than I don't want anyone touching up my images. They are mine, warts and all - end of discussion.

There are websites where my images are used for correction practice by Photoshop users for which I'm paid. That's a horse of a different color.

"As far as a critical comment thread, if it is done, it must be well moderated and separate from PAD. We would need people who can provide critique, but also communicate. On other sites I participated in a number of years ago, there was a lot of the former, but not much of the latter. It didn't provide much constructive value to improving my photography."

I'm afraid that would be the overriding concern. I've taught photography and journalism and language for years, and edited magazines and newspapers even longer. ;-)

What, exactly, is the purpose? Simplistically it would be to improve photographic skills.

Can one do that in 25 words or less? Two hundred and fifty? Two thousand and five hundred? A book? A shelf of books?

Narrowing the scope would help, as one would guess, by a lot.

Designing a feedback area would take some noodling and work. Rather than shotgunning 'photography', I would suggest 'rifling' an aspect such as 'aperture' for a 30-day period.

I would also suggest that a moderator research and post selective readings and PD photos and links.

If this sounds like too much work, well, it likely is.

Still, my best too all,

Mike

Whew, I'm glad you guys mentioned the silence aspect of the PAD thread.

I wish I shot more, but I just don't have the time to do it during the school year.

I echo the comments of tcole, RX$ and Pierre on the silence question, rbrylawski. Sometimes people are busy, sometimes they are thoughtful, sometimes they ask themselves, how would I do this, or what story is being told in this image? Sometimes they just like it for its documentary content.

As far as a critical comment thread, if it is done, it must be well moderated and separate from PAD. We would need people who can provide critique, but also communicate. On other sites I participated in a number of years ago, there was a lot of the former, but not much of the latter. It didn't provide much constructive value to improving my photography.

I have to agree with Rx4Photo. PAD is nice to look through and see the work everyone is doing. It does give me ideas and if nothing else makes me want to get out and take more pictures. I think the critical comments can be kept out of it, but I find it interesting when someone asks about how a certain photo was composed or the equipment that was used for it.

Personally, I've had mixed emotions about posting comments about others' photos on the PAD thread. In my eye, everyone's photo shows effort, desire to shoot, and provides for all of us a tiny window into the lives (and eyes) of the poster. The pics don't have to be Nat Geo or Sports Illustrated caliber - they just have to be something we thought was cool, or interesting enough to share with others. Often the poster him or herself seems to be the only person that sees the pic as neat and doesn't get a pat on the back for a post - but I'll bet somebody out there is learning something from that picture. I can't tell you how many times I've tried to imitate some of the talent I've seen here. From any of the pics I think we all learn and hone our skills.