@ technologic : Nikon uses the sensor from sony. Although what you describe has been patented by nikon (3 colours in a single pixel, like the faveon) it has not yet been implemented. would be interesting if they can figure out how to manufacture the 3 types of micro prism of different material in each pixel. Would be great once they can get that chip built would boost the high iso capability by another 2 EV !! and when the black silicone chips( another 6-7 ev) get rolling we will be able to take moonlight photos indoors with the lights off! thats ISO 6400000 ! We will be seeing it in say 3-7 years time. The tech is already here it only needs to be manufactured and the legal bits sorted out! we will probably need a special sensor cover plate that changes to a +6 ND filter other wise we wont be able to take normal photos !! LOL!

In terms of the fuji superccd being unfinished.. dunno.. seems as finished as any of the other sensors we have.. technology advances at a really fast pace. as soon as one product is being shipped its already obsolete. consider the black silicone example. we know we can have iso 1600000 now just swap in the black silicone into the the current chips! Why are we using all these obsolete half baked sensor technologies! No we all need to make design compromises when we create a product. once a technology is chosen it will be wrapped in a shell(frozen in tech time) and made into a product all other advances must be ignored or else it will never get to market. its just the way it needs to be done.

Canon 7D photo and specs:

EDIT: I'm moving this to a new post since this one is already getting full and kinda off topic.

http://nikonrumors.com/forum/topic.php?id=528#post-6991

NSX - hearty was referring to fps in 14bit raw

Niko - I doubt it's gonna be 18mpx, but we will see soon

Price for the 7D is now rumored to be $1,699US which doesn't make sense to me but we will see in about two to three days. maybe

What me? Joke around?! I never do that :^)

The latest is that the above specs could be the next 1DMkIV which won't be announced until Feb2010. So its not the 7D, but who knows at this point but canon and I'm sure Nikon.

The Sony a850 is getting a lot of attention but the canon guys are very nervous about what the 7D will bring to the table. They realize Nikon's been giving them a good beating lately :^)

So another day and another round of 7D specs for you to ponder. From a canon display poster in Chinese:

canon 7D
18Mp
dual digi4 processors
ISO 6400
19 point AF
HD Movie mode
horizon display (looks like their copying Nikon on this one)
100% viewfinder

I think NikoDoby had a lot of sarcasm and joking that you missed.

22 frames per second would be fun, but NSXType-R you are right that would be lots of fun editing. However I have taken a few wild BMX crashes at 8 frames per second and there are lots of action missing between frames.

I don't think Canon is ready to sell a camera like this yet and if they do it would be a one of their Pro models and prized that way also. I do think that they will make a camera like it, just a matter of time

Pete

NikoDoby, stop BSing, you'll confuse the newbs. :D

And at 22 frames per second, it's nearly a video camera. Have fun editing that. :D

HeartyFisher, what do you mean by the 2.5 frames on the D300? I thought it did way more than that, more like 5? Maybe that's on 14 bit?

And honestly, let Canon throw its best at Nikon. Competition FTW. What would we do without Canon and Sony? :D

@heartyfisher

I belive that you are refering to the Bayer CFA (color filter array) when you say that all cameras interpolate and while thats true, that is for color. Nikon uses a different color fiter array from the standard Bayer Method. Nikons system emulates a 3CCD system on a single chip. They use Microlenses over their photoreceptors. The wavelengths of light are seperated to their specific photorecptors red, green, and blue. This system also reduces the loss of light compared to the bayer CFA.

Correcting my previous statment. The EXR has elminated interpolation in some modes but does sometimes use it for others(rare).

"In high DR mode it groups pairs of sensors and uses one of each pair in a higher ISO mode in effect taking 2 x 6MP pictures at once one at higher ISO and the other at a lower ISO and then
doing a HDR merge of the result to get the HDR images at 6MP".

The Super CCD EXR doesnt change ISO modes. Half the pixels are read out during exposure, and the remaining half at the end of the exposure. Compared to using low-sensitivity photodiodes in their
older designs which was used to reading data off the sensor twice.

I am not saying the EXR sensor is not a good sensor. I just hate that Fuji has been putting out their unfinished SuperCCD sensor and basiclly beta testing it on the public since 1999. The SuperCCD HR and SuperCCD SR kindof pissed me off. I guess Fuji just left a bad taste in my mouth so to speak.

In the end I am more excited about Sony's 'Exmor R' back-illuminated CMOS and would rather see this chip in next generation nikons over fuji's CCD chip.

gentoo - trust me that once You will get 5-6fps with 14bit raw You will use it, at least that's what I would do

So the a850 is now officially official and it's the first 24mp full frame for $1999US !!!! This spells trouble for the Nikon DXXX line for sure!!!

I think the only reason to shoot in 14 bit mode is for landscaping. I've never heard of sports and certainly not wildlife photographers having a need for 14 bit although I've played with it a few times.

Yeah .. its not a sports photographer's camera .. still 2 FPS is not that much slower than 2.5 FPS which is what you get on the D300 when in 14bit mode(to get a bit more detail). and you can change mode(no HDR) and get 3.5 FPS on the S5. But for all other types of photography(non sports).. Its fast enough .. I think..

the biggest problem with S5pro is it's speed, this camera is soo slow - would love to use it for it's DR though

So going back to the original post Looks like the canon 7D WILL NOT be full frame or APS-H. Surprise!
It's just APS-C. Bad part is that the price might be around the 5DmkII!!!! But it will have dual processors to power 1080 HD and a high frames per second. Rumored to be as high as 22fps becoming the world's fastest camera! So this camera will definitely be for sports and wildlife photographers for the speed and crop factor.
The other cool rumor is that it will have a non-moving mirror that is electronically made to become transparent. Cool, if true or maybe it's all BS.

Also canon might be announcing something like a Nikonos underwater video camera.

Wow heartyfisher that was fast!!!

I think we need to ask heartyfisher about this one. He actually uses a Fuji S5. But the Fuji's I've handled have been good. Especially in dynamic range and color detail. I think Fuji cameras got a bad reputation during the Megapixel War. I like the idea behind the S series DSLR's.

We've got to ask heartyfisher

Hi
I have a Fuji S5 pro DSLR. it uses the super CCD sensor. and it is doing well for a niche camera. at one stage almost all wedding photographers were using it because of its wide dynamic range. it still has the best DR of any current camera. However it does interpolate to 12 MP when it is really a 6mp camera ie its got 12 MP photosites in pairs of 2 photo sites. (in the traditional sense.) in effect it does do better than 6 mp but not as good as a 12MP.

To be fair all sensors interpolate. the nikon/sony/canon sensors may have 12PM photo sites but they are made up of 2 greens 1 red and 1 blue so you really get only 3MP "pixels" but its mathematically interpolated to 12 MP. they all "guess" at missing data.

The Faveon has sensors that are 4.7 MP in density but each Pixel can distinguish the 3 colours so they interpolate that to 14MP

Its all maths .. you really cant single out Fuji for doing it.

However the new EXR technology from Fuji is much closer to the Nikon/Sony/canon method of counting MP. It does have 12MP photo sites and at high resolution mode it does create a 12 MP image just like the Nikon sensors. In high DR mode it groups pairs of sensors and uses one of each pair in a higher ISO mode in effect taking 2 x 6MP pictures at once one at higher ISO and the other at a lower ISO and then doing a HDR merge of the result to get the HDR images at 6MP. similarly for the high ISO capability the pairs of photosites are combined to act as one photo site that is double the size so it becomes in effect a 6MP sensor with its higher ISO capability. I dont really agree that they are jack of 3 trades and master of none tech. It would be nice to see the EXR sensor in a D300S body. Say a 24MP EXR sensor that does High DR at 12MP and high resolution at 24mp? hmm.. that would be nice!

As for how come they are not doing as great if their sensors are that good? its almost never the best technology that wins the day. Marketing and business savy plays a big part in what gets us to take money out of our pockets.

In regards to the Fuji EXR sensor, if you look at specks and review on Dpreview they list as 12MP effective pixels and the camera rated very well in comparison to any other P & S camera

Yes the old Fuji S5 etc were actual 6 MP cameras and had problems. No I don't like to see another Fuji SLR, but would like to see how a Nikon SLR would perform with a Fuji EXR sensor, actual effective 12MP DX or 24MP FX. I don't know if it can be done, if Fuji could even attempt to do it.

Then maybe we should get a sensor from Kodak

Pete

Yes, NikoDoby, I would agree there- Sony doesn't have the imaging experience as Canon and Nikon, but they do have Minolta, and that's something there, better than nothing.

I do agree as well though, they are a electronics first company.

How come Fuji isn't doing better if their sensors are supposed to be so great?

The Problem with the Fuji EXR sensor is that its better to call it a Jack of all Trades and master of none. The sensor basiclly can reconfigure itself for 3 different senarios. The Three modes are

1.High Sensitivity and Low Noise
2.Wide Dynamic Range
3.High Resolution

While this seems to be a good thing it doesnt do any of these modes exceptionally well.
The other problem that I have with the sensor is that it interpolates.
By that I mean that if they advertise 12megapixels its really 6 interpolated to 12 using a mathematical algorithm to guess the missing data.

gentoo - "As far as Minolta is concerned, they were bought out." - gentoo that's because minolta was only an imagining company

It is called EXR and only found on more expensive Fuji models, actual their EXR cameras, like my Fuji 200EXR takes very good pictures, just look at reviews and comparisons to other similar cameras from other brands.
We have sold lots of them, but Fuji is a lesser known brand and therefor does not have that great a market share. However I don't believe that has a direct relation to the quality of their EXR style sensor

Like I said before I would love to see what a Fuji EXR sensor could do in a Nikon camera

Pete

"maybe it should be from Fuji if they can make them at higher MP and FX size."

Let's hope not Fuji. I forget what it's called now but the technology in the Fuji sensors is the reasons Fuji's aren't grabbing the market either.

As far as Minolta is concerned, they were bought out. That means they weren't very strong so Sony can have them.

Adamz - but do they still have that Minolta feel to them, the A700/900 maybe, the other A*** not very much

Pete