msmoto said:
Anyone who gives advice is actually only stating their own preference. However, I would think the way to begin is to start with something like the Nikkor 40mm f/2.8 Macro or a 35mm lens. Go out and shoot like crazy and learn what can be done at a fixed focal length. I was looking at what I shot in the 1960's.... Nikon F bodies, 24mm f/2.8 Nikkor, 35 mm f/2 Nikkor, 85mm f/1.8 Nikkor, and a 300mm, f/4.5 Nikkor. This is what is left in the bag. And almost everything was shot with these. They look like they have been through a war zone, but still function. And a Gossen Luna Pro meter was in there as well. The basic issues of exposure, composition, limitations and then your talent are what you will work on. Once you grasp what a piece of equipment does, it becomes a part of you. In a few weeks, if I can pull in a few favors, i will have a new D4... which I will play with for about 4 to 6 hours without really taking a photo. We have to learn the tools then go to more complicated stuff.... like zoom lenses. And don't forget, we all have one opinion and one .... So Rule #62 applies here.

Ms. Tommie Lauer

I understand all of this. But I actually understood the camera bodies better than I understand the lenses. I have some experience with the bodies but none in how lenses compare. I just want a starting point, if someone suggests something wrong and I make a mistake, it's not the end o the world and I will try something else. I'm really looking forward to the class and starting a few projects. The D7000 should be here soon. Thanks for the help to everyone who has or is still giving me suggestions.

Anyone who gives advice is actually only stating their own preference. However, I would think the way to begin is to start with something like the Nikkor 40mm f/2.8 Macro or a 35mm lens. Go out and shoot like crazy and learn what can be done at a fixed focal length. I was looking at what I shot in the 1960's.... Nikon F bodies, 24mm f/2.8 Nikkor, 35 mm f/2 Nikkor, 85mm f/1.8 Nikkor, and a 300mm, f/4.5 Nikkor. This is what is left in the bag. And almost everything was shot with these. They look like they have been through a war zone, but still function. And a Gossen Luna Pro meter was in there as well. The basic issues of exposure, composition, limitations and then your talent are what you will work on. Once you grasp what a piece of equipment does, it becomes a part of you. In a few weeks, if I can pull in a few favors, i will have a new D4... which I will play with for about 4 to 6 hours without really taking a photo. We have to learn the tools then go to more complicated stuff.... like zoom lenses. And don't forget, we all have one opinion and one .... So Rule #62 applies here.

Ms. Tommie Lauer

Refurb is fine. I got my D90 refurbished and I've put on 250,000 shots on it since... 1 time I've had to do a repair but I treat it like dirt (drop it, bury it in dust, sand, unprotected in the rain) so it is reasonable...

spraynpray said:
Sounds like you may not be happy if the body has a few thousand click on it? Two things: 1/ at least it will be further along the bathtub curve regarding failures, and 2/ even a new one will have a few thousand on it sooner than you think, so don't worry.

Tell us what you got when you have it.

Ok, went ahead an ordered the refurb Nikon D7000 for $1k. I really don't want a refurb but can't find a new one. Only choice I had. I want to become a little familiar with it before the class starts. Still no lens so I need to figure that out next. Thanks fo the suggestions. If you guys have any more lens suggestions, let me know. Also, I don't trust returns so what exactly would you guys do to test it once it arrives?

Geez, I couldn't help throw in a pitch here. If a newby gets a camera, takes a class, it would be my suggestion to start with one prime lens like we did in the past. A 35mm or 28mm for the DX is great. Then go out and shoot everything you can find, this means on one shoot you come to the computer with about 150-200 exposures of maybe twenty subjects. Make every mistake you can. This is how we all learn. One must learn the limits of one lens before adding the versitility of a zoom. You will learn how to compose, crop, and delete much quicker with only one focal length to work with. Edit ferociously deleting 90% of what you shoot. Play with the different parts of the camera.... try to shoot a 35mm lens hand held at 1/5 second. Learn how to hold your breath while breathing. Look at the edges of the viewfinder, this is your photo. Become one with the camera.
And, have fun. Do not try so hard to be different you forget to be good.

Good luck, Ms. Tommie Lauer

Sounds like you may not be happy if the body has a few thousand click on it? Two things: 1/ at least it will be further along the bathtub curve regarding failures, and 2/ even a new one will have a few thousand on it sooner than you think, so don't worry.

Tell us what you got when you have it.

I just shot a high school basketball tournament with both the D7000 and the D5100. Normally I shoot with just the D7000 and two 2.8 zoom lenses. However, this gym was so dark I had to use f2 to freeze the ball. So I tried two f2 prime lenses (55mm and 85mm) on two bodies with the same sensor. I was surprised the different bodies made so much difference with the same sensor. The D5100 photos were about one stop darker than the D7000 photos with all the same camera settings. Also, the D5100's slower functioning really bothered me: too much shutter lag, too slow fps, not enough buffer, had to access menus to make changes instead of dedicated buttons, etc. I was surprised how much I preferred the overall functioning of the D7000 to the D5100. As long as you are going to be shooting in situations where you have plenty of time to compose it shouldn't matter because you won't miss shots but if you are going to be at all rushed between shots the D7000 is far superior and I suppose the D3s if even more superior compared to the D7000.

Think I'm going to try a d7000 refurb, they can be had for $950. I am still apprehensive about the refurb though. Ritz will only let you return it if there is a problem with the camera. I've read stories about people ordering these and them showing up with worn exterior parts and thousands of actuation counts. They will charge a 25% restock fee if you return it for one of these reasons and it isn't defective. So whatever you get, you are stuck with. One thing I like about crutchfield is their return policy but of course they're out. I was going to go ahead and just get the 5100 but they're out of those too. This sucks, I can't find crap. Guess I'm just going to have to play the refurb lottery and order one.

adamz said:
@kyoshinikon - in a year of two d7000 gonna be old :)... and will cost less than d5100 right now

Lol true but why pay twice? Then again it may be harder to learn with all of those options...

@adamz, and he can keep the Three lenses you suggest and use them on his D7000s/8000. It's amazing to think the 7000 is well over a year old already!

@kyoshinikon - in a year of two d7000 gonna be old :)... and will cost less than d5100 right now

However if you get the D5100 with the intention of growing with the camera you will possibly outgrow it in a year or 2...

get d5100 + 18-55vr + 55-200vr + 35/1.8 and You'll be more than happy with the results, and for the rest take some photo class. don't waist money on d7000 if You are upgrading from P&S and sorry to say but IMHO d7000 is not a camera for YOU!, You'll not get 50% of it's potential.

refurbished? I buy them all the time and have no problems with them, they are just as good as new as long as Nikon has done the refurbishing. $1,000 for a refurbished D7000 is a good deal.

D90 v D7000? I have both and they both are great in good light. However, the D7000 captures more detail in good light and is able to take better photographs in low light. If you are just starting out the D90 will serve you fine, up to the point where you are trying to shoot in low light or trying to capture the maximum detail from a subject when your photo is greatly enlarged. There is no question that the D7000 is much better than the D90. The only question is whether or not your type of photography will be calling for those better aspects.

Lenses? Get a "kit" zoom which starts at 18mm for wide angle. I suggest the 18-55mm (about $140) plus the 55-200 (about $150) plus the 35mm 1.8 (about $200). These are very inexpensive ways to enter all types of photography. The 18-55 has an excellent macro capacity which gets you close enough to flowers. So for a layout of about $1500 you can have the ability to try a wide range of photography with lenses which will produce excellent image quality in good light. This equipment will allow you to take most of the images you see published, if you have the skill. Your biggest limitation with this set will be shooting non-wide angle shots in low light. To do that most professionals use f 2.8 lenses which cost over a thousand dollars and sometimes many thousands of dollars per lens.

You are wise to take a photography class. Most beginners don't.

In your last post it sounds a lot like you don't know what you need or want. The lens compatibility is usually only an issue if you go from higher bodies to lower. The D3100 and D5100 can only use the AF-S lenses. The other compatibility issue would be a DX lens (or lenses for the D3100, D5100, D90, D7000, etc) and using them on a FX body such as the D700 or D3S. But FX lenses can be used on a DX or FX body. Most don't have to worry about this unless you are looking a long way down the road.

If your friend knows something then I would say take their advice. It would be good to read up some more also.

I have several Nikon refurbished products and haven't had a single problem.

Lastly I would probably recommend the D7000 and the 18-200 with a 35 F1.8 That is probably a pretty good starting point until you can figure out what you really want or need. It gives you a wide range to try. It gives you a fast, cheap prime that will let you see how you like them. Another suggestion might be the new 40 F2.8 micro, just because it is a dual purpose lens and can do macro work as well.

One final note. I know others on here probably won't agree and no one seems to recommend it since the D7000 came out, but you can find a refurbished D90 in the US now for around $650...which to me is an amazing deal at about half the price of a D7000. I think it is still a very capable camera, but since the D7000 came out it is obviously not the latest and greatest (although I didn't hear about as many problems with the D90 as I do the D7000).

A refurb D7000. I don't know about elsewhere in the world, but in the UK, refurbs are available in different grades. Grade "A" should be indistinguishable from new. I bought my son one.

Thank you for all the responses. I will try to respond to everyone at once.

I'm not crazy about refurbished stuff, especially electronics. Especially here. I am new to this and scared I would not pick up on something if the camera is not working 100%. $300 sounds good but I am skeptical of it. Anyone else here got a refurb?

I can find D90s all day and I'm tempted to get one. The D7k can not be found locally at the moment. The teacher suggested a D7k with kit lens as well but he has a Nikon email so he may be biased. As a newb, I don't think it really matters, I am more concerned with lens compatibility and availability and the like. I don't mind a 3100 or 5100, but if I move up later to a better model, I want to be able to use the lenses I already have. I'm ready to start though so I plan to look for a d7k for a week and if I can't find one, I'll get something else.

I'm a pro shooter, as in firearms, not photos so I have a good tripod I use with a spotting scope. My buddy gave me a leftover camera bag/backpack which will work fine for me.

To be honest I don't care if it's a Nikon or not at this point. Just want to get started and trying to make the most educated decision I can as a beginner. Thank you for all the input.

Would you guys go with a refurb d7k or new d90?

Rx4Photo said:

Photography is like music in that there are so many styles, genres if you will, and you will likely develop your preferred style over time. I must add that it doesn't hurt to be prepared for anything; reason I might eventually get another long zoom; but once you know what "wows" you then get those lenses first.

Well said!

Gareth said:
i'd say the 35 1.8 would be a good idea along with a d7000.

go through all of the photo books you can find flicking through the pages quickly. bookmark anything that interests you. copy off the 20-50 you like the most/ are the most emotive to you. look through the images and think about why they aroused your interest. what sort of pictures are they? landscapes? then you need a wide lens. something else, then maybe not.

This right here is really excellent advice that I can now relate to. A year ago when I got my D7000 the Nikon 70-300mm VR lens was one of the 1st lenses that I bought because I thought I would be shooting closeups of so many things. Over time I've grown to love wide angle, low angle,weird perspective and architectural photos. I recently sold my 70-300mm VR and haven't missed it yet. I have tried other long lenses in the meantime but havn't kept any.
Photography is like music in that there are so many styles, genres if you will, and you will likely develop your preferred style over time. I must add that it doesn't hurt to be prepared for anything; reason I might eventually get another long zoom; but once you know what "wows" you then get those lenses first.

i'd say the 35 1.8 would be a good idea along with a d7000.

go through all of the photo books you can find flicking through the pages quickly. bookmark anything that interests you. copy off the 20-50 you like the most/ are the most emotive to you. look through the images and think about why they aroused your interest. what sort of pictures are they? landscapes? then you need a wide lens. something else, then maybe not.

Diggity Dawg said:
My friend told me to just go buy the D7000.

Your friend probably knows you better than we do
The D7000 is excellent camera, take your frinds advice

Realy realy excellent advice here. The thing that came in to my mind though, was what does the teacher of the course recommend, and what equipment are last years students using? That might give you a good idea of what you're going to need.

DiggetyDaw, the world of DSLR photography can enrich a persons life greatly...yet it is a road taken should be taken in small steps, specially for those that are just starting off and have a limited about of funds that they are willing to part with in its early stage.

Those of us in this forum, will do our best to assist you given the paramaters that you have set for us to work with. Hence, your $2000 max budget, skill level and the type of photography you will be doing. My recommendations will consiste mostly of equipment's that I have purchased or have used and feel confident in their performance but do not own. With that said, let us begin...

1) Given your budget, instead of getting a brand new D7000, get one that has been "Factory Refurbished." They are just as good as a new ones, have the same 1 year warranty, and you save $300. I believe Ritz Camera's still has then in stock for $999.00.

If you chose this path, it will allow for more funds that can be used towards better "glass" a.ka. lenses. As you become more educated about digital photography you will find that your lenses will out live your body by a long shot. Moreover, it is this part of your equipment that will provided you with much best pictures....generally speaking. We will not get into all the "technical" details at this stage. You will learn all the tech stuff in your classes; as well as, the many knowledgeable photographers in this forum you interact with. Hence, good glass is key for tack sharp images.

2) For nature photography you will need a wide angle lens; and a tripod is highly recommended...so budget for both.

Lenses to consider: Tokina 11-16mm DX 2.8 ($700). I have worked with this lens and it has great optics and works within your budget. If you want to get Nikon glass, my recommendation are the 14-24mm 2.8 or the 16-35mm F4. But do note that these lense are going to put you over your budget, so that is why I went with the Tokina for you.

For tripod look at Manfrotto 190XPROB 3 Section Black Aluminum Pro Tripod Legs with 804RC2 3-Way Pan/Tilt Head, Max Load: 8.8 lb., Max Height 62" Adorama has them for around $200.

3) For telephoto consider the Nikon 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 ($590). This lens will do a great job when you want to just cary one "do-it-all" lens.

Lastly, spend sometime reading the different topic on this forum...your will be happy you did.

Good luck and Happy New Year....cheers.

Hmmm, recommendations are always a little tricky because they depend strongly on the person who will be doing the buying. Frankly, from your description of yourself, the recommendation is to keep things simple. Once you get a handle on the basics, you can move to the next step. Where that next step is depends on a lot of things, but usually, just knowing where you want to go next is a sign that you are actually ready to move on.

What I would suggest is to stick with a simple body and only 1 lens. The D7000 that your friend suggested is a pretty good choice as it is an excellent camera with a large feature set. You might also be equally well served by going with a lower end camera too such as the D3100 or the D5100. Both those models remove some of the advanced features (such as direct controls for certain features and build quality) but as a beginner, you probably won't miss those things. The cameras are all very good and there's no reason why you can't get excellent results from any of them. There are also very comparable counterparts from Canon and Sony as well.

For lenses, the only thing I can suggest is to stay with the "kit" zoom lens. Since you're used to a P&S camera, a normal zoom lens is what you are already familiar with. You can always add more once you know what you want, but I think starting simple is a good strategy. In that vein, a prime lens (a non-zoom lens) like the 35/1.8 is also good: I actually think it would help you learn faster since you are forced to walk around to change your view, but it might take some getting used to if you are used to using the zoom button.

If you want to spend more, I would suggest getting accessories (not listed in any order): a camera bag that you could picture yourself carrying everywhere, a moderate quality hot-shoe flash (the SB-700 is a good choice), and a tripod (try to get one that feels very sturdy). Anything beyond that really is up to you. If you don't know what you need or why you should get something, that's probably a good sign that you shouldn't get it.

Thank you golf, i will probably go ahead an get the d7000 when I see one in stock. I don't know enough to ask which lenses to get. I have read about primes though and had planned to add one. A good suggestion as for a few to look at in wide and telephoto lenses would be appreciated. At least a good idea for where a beginner should start.

golf007sd said:
Welcome to NR DiggetyDaw,

Your friends is right. The D7000 is a great camera. It fits within your budget very nicely, and will allow for additional gear...such as memory cards, flash, tripod etc..etc. You have two option with the D7000: 1) to get the body only ($1300) or 2) buy the D7000 with a kit ($1500 -- the kit come with a 18-105mm VR lens). Personally, I would buy the body only version and get the lenes that suit your needs. Moreover, that goes for any DSLR that you might want to get.

There are many lenses for you to consider; however, one that you should defiantly consider getting would be a "prime lens". The 35mm 1.8 ($200) or 50mm 1.8 ($230) are my recommendation for you to consider. They are not that expansive but will allow you to take great shots in many different types of settings...specially those in low-light situations. They work good for portrats and indoor photography.

For landscape you need a "wide-angle" lens. Spend some time reading/researching these types of lenses, as well as others (such as telephoto) and once you have more specific questions, come back and we will assist your further.

Cheers....