TaoTeJared said:
Every school has a Dell contract. And Apple, and HP, and ....

A company I was at the workers always would sneak something (non work) from Dell into orders all the time and pay the company back. Well usually. If you piggy back it on a larger order you probably could save 25% easily.

Know the tactic well. Unfortunately, about the most we have ever got through the bean counters is an HDD upgrade.

Every school has a Dell contract. And Apple, and HP, and ....

A company I was at the workers always would sneak something (non work) from Dell into orders all the time and pay the company back. Well usually. If you piggy back it on a larger order you probably could save 25% easily.

TaoTeJared said:
Ha! Love it!

NPV for sure (need every penny) and just lower of cost or market value. Capitalize the cost by buying it through Dell with some hardware so the current 3yr accelerated depreciation kicks in to make the accountants head spin and just sit back and smile.

Funny you should say that. We actually do have a 'corporate contract' with the Austin wonder boy's computer company...

I guess staying on topic might be a little off topic at this point, but...

I actually owned a Zeikos ZE-SB1000 for a short while. I was much happier selling it than using it. I guess a Zeikos is about the same as any other cheap off brand flash. It was basically the same size as my SB-700. It had a noticeably cheaper build quality... a lot like something you would buy at a dollar store (it screamed Made in China with minimal quality control). I didn't understand Nikon's CLS when I bought the Zeikos and thought I could just use it as a slave to my SB-700... LOL! I learned a lot about flashes in the process of trying to set it off remotely. It did have iTTL, but that is on-camera only, and the remote mode is like setting a Nikon flash on SU-4 mode where you must use another flash to set it off and can't use CLS, TTL, or anything else that involves preflashes. Recycle time was noticeably slower than my SB-700 and you can hear the whine of it charging the capacitor quite clearly to know how long it is taking. If you care about recycle time, iTTL, CLS, quality, etc, I would recommend sticking to Nikon. If you use a manual flash setup with a lot of remote triggers, I'm sure a Zeikos could fit in fine... but I recommend finding something even cheaper in price since the Zeikos seemed to be built as cheap as possible.

SkintBrit said:
You guys make me feel so dumb!

+1

The IRS makes all but the Illuminati feel cometely lost. Sounds like we've got some around here. ;-)

golf007sd said:
Totally of the topic, but had to ask (please delete/remove my respond due to deviation from topic). Are you considering doing an NPV analysis? If so are you going to using WACC or CAPM? What method are you going to use in coming up with a Beta? Lastly, what will be your discount rate?

Ha! Love it!

NPV for sure (need every penny) and just lower of cost or market value. Capitalize the cost by buying it through Dell with some hardware so the current 3yr accelerated depreciation kicks in to make the accountants head spin and just sit back and smile.

You guys make me feel so dumb!

TaoTeJared said:
I haven't used Zeikkos but have used Sigma and Metz. Unless you are doing studio work with Pocket Wizards I wouldn't touch anything without iTTL. Sigma & Metz seemed to be able to take a daily beating and also have iTTL. That iTTL is the kicker. It takes some time to go back to TTL but doable.

Depending on your boss, budget cuts are just a way to save money. Buying cheap and replacing twice costs more money in the long run. So does time spent on extra editing, extra shooting, all costs money.

My good ole MBA analyst side: (What I would suggest.)
6-year cost line. 3 back - 3 forward (2-year or what you can)
Figure your life span of a sb-900/sb-700/sb-600 & cost. (3 yr back)
Figure cost of 3 alternatives (High (below Nikon), Medium, Low)
Assume* the cost savings percent equals the percentage of less time of active service.
Now do replacement cost and total cost.

10:1 says it Nikon is cheaper by at least 25%.
PM me if you want - this stuff is what I do for an actual living.

Totally of the topic, but had to ask (please delete/remove my respond due to deviation from topic). Are you considering doing an NPV analysis? If so are you going to using WACC or CAPM? What method are you going to use in coming up with a Beta? Lastly, what will be your discount rate?

They still have them - and the "normal" designs now as well - and still bright as can be. :)

TaoTeJared said:
I haven't used Zeikkos but have used Sigma and Metz.

Metz... Ha! My first ever photography teacher (going way back when) used to love his Mecablitz. A classic handle design - heavy as a tank and darn bright too. Battery pack was a bad boy...

SkintBrit said:
If you want we can all write you some more.......what do you want them to say bjrichus?! LOL ;-)

Thanks for the input. A casual conversation this afternoon (my time), and it seems that the senior lead guy has pretty much gone home early having exploded in rage. He was the hardest to convince that the D7000's we now have as our main body was any good, and as far as he is concerned the very idea of using another brand for flashes was as bad as suggesting we use a Holga and try to get super sharp results for 100% of the frame.

He said it with much more force than I ever would have, but then I'm a nice guy ;)

bjrichus said:
@sevencrossing... Thanks. I'll use your input as my "international user quotes"

If you want we can all write you some more.......what do you want them to say bjrichus?! LOL ;-)

I haven't used Zeikkos but have used Sigma and Metz. Unless you are doing studio work with Pocket Wizards I wouldn't touch anything without iTTL. Sigma & Metz seemed to be able to take a daily beating and also have iTTL. That iTTL is the kicker. It takes some time to go back to TTL but doable.

Depending on your boss, budget cuts are just a way to save money. Buying cheap and replacing twice costs more money in the long run. So does time spent on extra editing, extra shooting, all costs money.

My good ole MBA analyst side: (What I would suggest.)
6-year cost line. 3 back - 3 forward (2-year or what you can)
Figure your life span of a sb-900/sb-700/sb-600 & cost. (3 yr back)
Figure cost of 3 alternatives (High (below Nikon), Medium, Low)
Assume* the cost savings percent equals the percentage of less time of active service.
Now do replacement cost and total cost.

10:1 says it Nikon is cheaper by at least 25%.
PM me if you want - this stuff is what I do for an actual living.

Mike Gunter said:
The bottom line is that sometimes the most expensive equipment is the cheapest equipment.

Agreed about the most expensive comments. It's often not the up front costs that matter most, but the cost over time and the cost of lost results.

@sevencrossing... Thanks. I'll use your input as my "international user quotes"... As you say, it's all about the business side of things...

@MikeGunter, we do have a significant budget and this year, the first managerial threat was to cut it by 18%. After lots of bricks being dropped by certain people the number went down to 7%, but in the end, the money actually only went down by 3.5% - which all things considered isn't too bad. Oh the joy of working for a state institution. :)

I have not used a Zeikos but here is some quotes from one review I have found

...........this is a poor quality product. The contacts are very loose ........The flash suddenly died ........ very poor build and product quality ....Wouldn't waste your time........it couldn't even light up a flower at 2 feet.

.
My experience of bean counters is, they simply need reassuring you have done a bit of research and looked at the alternatives. Which indeed you are doing

I have not used a Zeikos but here is quotes from one review I have found

...........this is a poor quality product. The contacts are very loose ........The flash suddenly died ........ very poor build and product quality

.
My experience of bean counters is, they simply need reassuring you have done a bit of research and looked at the alternatives. Which indeed you are doing

Hi bjrichus,

I've worked in several offices that had a bunch of equipment, and a wide range of budgets.

While most of our pockets were deep (very deep), I was was once faced with a self appointed savior who thought that he would be able to revamp the US Army's equipment by removing Nikons and Hassleblads replacing them with Vivitars and something I can't remember at savings of millions of dollars. I out ranked by quite a bit and sent him a terse, but friendly memo that said something to the effect that there are "industry standards" that need to be met for a minimum usage that "accounting standards" need to take into their basis for reporting and actualization. The bottom line is that sometimes the most expensive equipment is the cheapest equipment.

There are times that isn't always true. The best example I can think of is my lens hoods. I use cheap, but durable rubber hoods that offer better protection, IMHO, and even a slightly better light proof protection for my images, but that's where experience comes into play.

Accountants don't help there at all.

My best,

Mike

Now that the 910 is out, my boss decided to look for cheaper alternatives. We have a few SB-700, and SB-900 speedlights, and while none of us have so far had the overheating problems with the 900's we are kind of worried about it happening - eventually.

The admin peeps are after us to save money (why we purchased a bunch of DX gear this last year, to fill in for broken FX bodies). Oh the joy of working on a budget!

I got an email this morning asking about the Zeikos range of speedlights; What do I think of them?" was the bottom line. I have never used them myself so before I send back a reply saying that compared to Nikon, while they are cheap but they will break after a couple of weeks, I want to be sure I am not going to be wrong about that, am I right?

I want to say it is worth buying Nikon 900's now while stock is still there to be replaced soon by 910's at higher prices? Again, is that the best response?