Seems like such a pointless discussion.. As I mentioned before its illegal to release "roadmaps" in many countries. Therefore international companies don't have "roadmaps".

How about I just tell everyone Nikon will eventually come out with new stuff :) I don't have a date, but I am 100% positive it will happen.

I agree Jared. I've been wanting a DC lens, but I am a bit concerned about a refresh. If I know for sure there won't be one in the next 2 years or more, I'll gladly buy one now.

On the original topic:

iris chrome said:
Although, I'm not sold on the point that Nikon's lack of a roadmap is a valid complaint agains them.

I agree.

Road-maps have nothing to do with any choice since no one releases them. Hell even in companies road-maps don't mean what tech will be released. It is a direction, not an absolute. Asking for a road-map for any consumer product is like an auto insurance company expecting you to tell them when you will have your next accident.

Canon & Sony pre-announced items just by a month (+/-) and then the floods hit Thailand. On the Sony fan pages they were railing non-stop (it was really bad) why missed the expected release date. At the same time, they are stuck with releasing what they announced. I saw quite a bit of talk that there was some new sensors that allowed better video but Sony scraped changing it since they already published their specs.

Without announcing a thing, Nikon just gained a few more months of tweaks or changes. There are always things that are not included due to time constraints. Especially since some of their production equipment will probably have to be rebuilt, which gives them an additional opportunity to make changes if they want. Disasters are terrible, but they create opportunities as well. Maybe this gives them the opportunity to offer the video options everyone wants.

The D400/D800/D4 are 4-year refresh cycles and any additional time they get the better the camera's will be.

That all said on bodies, I wouldn't mind a general road map on the much older (AFD) "pro" lenses. Something like, "We working on updating the 105/135 DC lenses but no release timeline is known at this time or should be expected in the next 2 years." Then I would go ahead and buy one.

phosphoro said:
Chrome, thank you for your time. Well, I was talking about Nikon's lack of roadmaps, not Canon's. I don't need a roadmap from Canon because they already have what I need for video (can be improved in various areas, granted, but the basics are there).

Hi phosphoro,

Yes, I'm aware that you did not actually say that Canon has a roadmap but I felt that it was an unspoken implication on your part. Accept my apologies if I misread your post. You have to remember that this is a Nikon forum so in even the most level headed members (not that I am one :-p) there will always exist some level of fanboyism and sometimes defensiveness will just take over ;-)

phosphoro said:
I disagree wholeheartedly. If I had a notion of what's in the pipeline regarding VIDEO, and an approximate timeline, then I could plan ahead. The 3-year update is speculation on your part (informed speculation, no doubt, but still). I'm well aware that the natural disasters have had a significant impact, and I'm not complaining that no video-capable camera has arrived. My complaint is that their super-secrecy is not allowing me any perspective whatsoever to plan, and my tight budget would like to know what it's doing.

You do raise some nice points here and like I said in my previous post, I think a photographer should pick his equipment based on what he needs/wants. Although, I'm not sold on the point that Nikon's lack of a roadmap is a valid complaint agains them.

Hypothetically speaking (and do entertain the thought :-) ), the year is 2020 and you completely switched to Canon since Nikon kept falling short in the video department. Nikon has just released a new camera and it's got the next big must have feature in DSLR's whatever it is (hologram videography?). Canon releases their new DSLR which does incorporate the feature but it's lacking compared to Nikon's and they continue to lack behind Nikon for a few years. What would you do then? Would you also blame Canon because they don't make a roadmap for their products?

My point from all of this is, if the other camera system has the features that you need and you absolutely need them now then you should go ahead and make the switch. But at the same time there is no need to blame a company for their secrecy regarding their products especially when this is the way they've always operated. After all secrecy does have it's benefits too.

iris chrome said:
First of all, let's be clear, Canon does not have roadmaps....

Peace.

Chrome, thank you for your time. Well, I was talking about Nikon's lack of roadmaps, not Canon's. I don't need a roadmap from Canon because they already have what I need for video (can be improved in various areas, granted, but the basics are there).

"...., saying that you're going with Canon instead of Nikon because you don't know when Nikon would update their cameras makes little sense."

I disagree wholeheartedly. If I had a notion of what's in the pipeline regarding VIDEO, and an approximate timeline, then I could plan ahead. The 3-year update is speculation on your part (informed speculation, no doubt, but still). I'm well aware that the natural disasters have had a significant impact, and I'm not complaining that no video-capable camera has arrived. My complaint is that their super-secrecy is not allowing me any perspective whatsoever to plan, and my tight budget would like to know what it's doing.

mirtos said:
And to be honest, if video is your reason for the upgrade, id suggest going with a pro line camcorder. You can get one for cheaper than what you're describing that does better video. Now if you got a Canon for its other features, then nevermind. :)

Was under consideration but it would have been a major upgrade to the Sony FS100, which I cannot afford right now anyway. Pros and cons of camcorders vs dslrs are a separate topic altogether, but I do get your point.

Mike Gunter said:
Hi,

You don't 'take' a photograph, you 'make' it; that also means that you have tease it from your art and artifice of the gear.

Some faster flash shutter synchronization in 35mm wasn't possible too many years ago, nor was rear shutter.

We use zooms daily; when I began photography, zooms were inferior optics and avoided.

Films were generally slow and there wasn't any stabilization in the lenses and thus hand-holding anything beyond a 135mm telephoto was 'iffy'.

And nearly all of us remember when cameras had no video.

Announcements might play a role for professionals and enthusiasts in that there would be a clear use for these tools, if they lived up to their expectations.

But there are vast disappointments if schedules aren't met.

My best,

Mike

Well said, sir. Well said.

Hi,

You don't 'take' a photograph, you 'make' it; that also means that you have tease it from your art and artifice of the gear.

Some faster flash shutter synchronization in 35mm wasn't possible too many years ago, nor was rear shutter.

We use zooms daily; when I began photography, zooms were inferior optics and avoided.

Films were generally slow and there wasn't any stabilization in the lenses and thus hand-holding anything beyond a 135mm telephoto was 'iffy'.

And nearly all of us remember when cameras had no video.

Announcements might play a role for professionals and enthusiasts in that there would be a clear use for these tools, if they lived up to their expectations.

But there are vast disappointments if schedules aren't met.

My best,

Mike

I agree with Iris Chrome on this topic. Pre-announcing release dates opens up the opportunity to fail to meet expectations and that leads to more discontent then releasing nothing.

I also believe that if you have an immediate need, (absent all desires) you have make the best choice for your business. If you are losing sales and that means buying a Canon, Panasonic or whatever, then that is what you have to do. If you do not make your income off of it now, or will in the next 12 months, and you are buying "Kit" setups, I think that is just a terrible waste of money and is driven only by desire and has little do do with need.

phosphoro said:
I have a Nikon, dummy.
Minimum requirements are 24, 25, 30 at 1080p, 50 and 60fps at least at 720p, mic in. Everything else (eg picture styles) would be a plus.

I see companies trading back and forth and leapfrogging each other on video quality and options for the next 4 years. At any point in time somebody will be behind the game. I'm starting to see more and more people buying into multiple brands to keep up but then only buying the "cheap" dslr that has the best video options at the time while still keeping with their "main system" for photography.

phosphoro said:
A sad day: I just bought a Canon today. If Nikon had published a roadmap with at least vague indications of what and when then maybe I could have planned ahead, had some idea of the costs of having to rent or borrow a Canon every time I need to shoot video. But it's been several years now and Nikon's policy/strategy of not saying anything has been anything but helpful.

Hello phosphoro and congrats on your new purchase. Both Canon and Nikon make very fine cameras and lenses, and wether anybody goes with either brand should be based on which products and company feel more suitable to them. Now having said that, I find it odd to base my camera purchase on wether or not a camera company makes advance announcement of their products.

First of all, let's be clear, Canon does not have roadmaps. A roadmap from Canon would be something like them saying "the 5D mkII is expected to be updated on so and so date or in so and so years/months" and giving that information for the majority of their products. Canon does not provide this kind of information nor are they likely to ever do. Here is the closest they have ever had to a roadmap (which anyone can figure out by looking at Canon's lineup):

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_rumours.html

What they do do on the other hand is make advance announcements or "in development announcements" which are not roadmaps and even then these are reserved only for their top tier products (the 500mm and 600mm above are priced at $10.5k and $13k respectively, the in development cinema DLSR is expected to have a price between $16k to $20k and the 1DX is priced at about $7k). Not even the 5D line gets this kind of treatment never mind the 7D so I'm not sure how you can argue that point. Heck, the 5D mkIII should be released soon and there are only rumors.

On to my second point, I think we all know with a high degree of certainty that Nikon will not abandon their D700 line and that an update will be launched. Based on so many factors out there (professional FX camera and 5D line history for example) we can also safely expect an update of the camera within about 3 years of it's initial launch (we're about 3.5 years since D700 was first launched). The fact that they haven't released the D800 yet can easily be explained by the natural disasters Nikon had to deal - and still is dealing - with this year. Here again, saying that you're going with Canon instead of Nikon because you don't know when Nikon would update their cameras makes little sense.

kyoshinikon said:
There is a reason canon still has the market... Other than the video it is the fact that they connect with their customers. For stills Nikon has the better product but this is just one reason nikon will never have the market...

Kyoshi, I believe Canon used to have the market. Their market share had been declining while Nikon had been steadily closing in on them. There are probably many reasons why Canon gained the upper hand in the DSLR market in the beginning but I can think of a few:

1. Nikon's DSLR offerings in the past were not as stellar as Canon's.
2. Canon have had FX cameras since 2002 (something that would influence professional photogs which in turn influences consumers and enthusiasts) this is not to mention APS-H (the old 1D line) which they've had even longer. Nikon on the other hand launched their D3 in 2007.
3. Canon's original 5D allowed even enthusiasts and ordinary consumers an opportunity to shoot FX. Even if they couldn't afford or justify the 5D at first, many bought a Canon anyway just because someday they might upgrade to full frame. Canon had their 5D out 3 years before Nikon launched their D700.

Peace.

This is a little off topic, and while I realize video works well through DSLR's, I'm still of a video purist, and I think a camera designed for video works better than a video via DSLR. When i want to do video (beyond just a five minute clip), i always use a device for that, and when I want to do stills, I use a DSLR.

I do understand why DSLR's do video, but I personally I'd rather have more significant still features than video any day. And to be honest, if video is your reason for the upgrade, id suggest going with a pro line camcorder. You can get one for cheaper than what you're describing that does better video. Now if you got a Canon for its other features, then nevermind. :)

I have a Nikon, dummy.
Minimum requirements are 24, 25, 30 at 1080p, 50 and 60fps at least at 720p, mic in. Everything else (eg picture styles) would be a plus.

phosphoro said:
Sad because I waited so long and nothing materialized. No doubt the 7d is a very good camera and I've used that and the 5DMK2 plenty of times before. Yes, it suits my moving image needs, but not my photography needs. I'm not a big fan of the camera anyway (buttons and menu) but worse is I have Nikon glass. That means focus and aperture are manual, and I can't use one of my favorite lenses, the Tokina 11-16 f2.8 because it doesn't have an aperture ring. I went and got a cheap second hand zoom so I could at least take some snapshots when I can't take two bodies. Am willing to wait another year for that "revolutionary" D800 we keep hearing about but if that doesn't materialize then I'll sell all my glass and make a full switch, which essentially means starting from zero. For the moment I'm just stuck with two bodies.

waited for what?

why are you buying Nikon lenses and Nikon mount lenses to use on a Canon?
Just buy Canon lenses or a Nikon camera.
Waiting for a "D800" What are you waiting for? what is wrong with the present line up of Nikon Cameras that does not meet your requirements?

post your requirements and we can show you that Nikon has a camera that will do what you want. Does Canon have something that Nikon cannot supply? I doubt it.

YOu probally just do not want to pay for it.

Camera has not been announced, no specs. YOu may not be alive tomorrow.

You will make a full switch if nothing materializes, this does not make sense, buying Nikon lenses to use on your Canon camera because of what you hope will happen sometime in the future. You even bought a Tokina in Nikon mount?

buy a nikon to use with your Nikon lenses.

Nikon lenses work best with Nikon cameras, and Canon cameras love Canon lenses or lenses with the mount for those cameras.

this is one post that does not make sense, give me a break.
I will not call you a clown because the rules of this forum prevent me from doing so.

trolling

However experience can make one loyal to a brand... Iv'e used a slew of cameras (Pentax, oly, sony, canon, leica, etc) and I personally am not so loyal to Nikon as I am anti canon. Most of the people I know who buy a canon do it because a loyal canut convinced them with something as simple as "the pros use it" and not for what it is.

Don't get me wrong canon makes great cameras but the perpetual bad experiences I've had with them have caused me to become a little bitter at those who profess their love for canon's cameras. I mean when you have had 3 7D's, a 5d, and a rebel break on you yet people still insist they are the best it triggers a bit of pessimism. I feel like many canuts are oblivious to other brands and treat other photogs that way. Sure there are nikonians that do it too but it isn't an epidemic like I find in canon users...

You are right, brand loyalty is silly and it isn't really about that. When I shoot analogue I use a Pentax with a 45 year-old lens. Sad because I waited so long and nothing materialized. No doubt the 7d is a very good camera and I've used that and the 5DMK2 plenty of times before. Yes, it suits my moving image needs, but not my photography needs. I'm not a big fan of the camera anyway (buttons and menu) but worse is I have Nikon glass. That means focus and aperture are manual, and I can't use one of my favorite lenses, the Tokina 11-16 f2.8 because it doesn't have an aperture ring. I went and got a cheap second hand zoom so I could at least take some snapshots when I can't take two bodies. Am willing to wait another year for that "revolutionary" D800 we keep hearing about but if that doesn't materialize then I'll sell all my glass and make a full switch, which essentially means starting from zero. For the moment I'm just stuck with two bodies.

I agree with golf007sd. Brand loyalty is just silly. You should get the thing that best suits your needs. I own Nikon DSLRs and SLRs, Canon P&S, and thinking about getting a video camera (probably Canon).

I've been thinking about the Nikon 1 cameras to replace my point and shoot, not because of band loyalty, but because i like the idea. I will decide once i try it.

phosphoro said:
A sad day: I just bought a Canon today. If Nikon had published a roadmap with at least vague indications of what and when then maybe I could have planned ahead, had some idea of the costs of having to rent or borrow a Canon every time I need to shoot video. But it's been several years now and Nikon's policy/strategy of not saying anything has been anything but helpful.

I don't see how this is a sad day...you got a gear that will suit your needs. Get out there and have some fun...be happy. Hopefully one day, you will find that Nikon will offer something that you will want.

For the record, I own a point-and-shot Canon...it too comes with me when I travel. It fits really nicely in my shirt pocket. Hard to do that with my D7000 with a lens attached.

There is a reason canon still has the market... Other than the video it is the fact that they connect with their customers. For stills Nikon has the better product but this is just one reason nikon will never have the market...

A sad day: I just bought a Canon today. If Nikon had published a roadmap with at least vague indications of what and when then maybe I could have planned ahead, had some idea of the costs of having to rent or borrow a Canon every time I need to shoot video. But it's been several years now and Nikon's policy/strategy of not saying anything has been anything but helpful.

I don't see it as bad...they should just make reasonable timelines of when the product will be out. Or if so be it then wait until they have a reasonable timeline. If they make the announcement with a pretty firm date when it will either be produced or deliverable...I think that would all keep the tension down. The problem is when they announce the new product and people expect to have it next week.

Canon had issues with meeting demand way before the earthquake and tsunami of Japan and the flooding in Thailand. They had announced their super fisheye zoom a while back, but their supply is worse than Nikon's.

I think its illegal in some countries to pre announce stuff. To do with marketing maneuvering and anti competition.

As a consumer, I look forward in hearing of new products that a manufacture is about to bring to market. Some products make to the market on time and some don't. For example, Apple is usually very good at making sure they meet their dead lines, yet they too have had their issues...hence the white version of the iPhone 4.

With respect to Cannon, Nikon and other major camera manufactures, the natural disasters in Japan and Thailand, have without question disrupted their ability in bringing new products to market.

Sony ticked off a bunch of shooters with their delay in the a77...