Mike Gunter said:
You'll note I wasn't dissing them.

Yes, I saw that you were interested in them and I was just giving you my personal experience with them. Sorry if I came across as confrontational—contrary nature, I guess. ;-)

Mike Gunter said:
You can't use the on camera flash as a commander and as a flash, but the flashguns can be. It provides another light source that is adjustable, and will also increase the distance for the remote units. My use of the unit as a commander really increased not only efficiency, but creative placement. I have a Nikon SC27 cable and 2 of the Zeikos similar models that are shorter - they are shorter. You can align "Commader" as Main 15 feet from subject and 2 - 4 other flashes tuned in to what ever light up to 20 feet away, all iTTL.

Nikon, if I recall, says that the 'practical' limit is 15 strobes.

My best,

Mike

I dream of reaching that 'practical limit' someday!

I'm not sure which body you're using, but at least the ones I've owned (D90, D300, D7000) with on-camera commander mode all have the option of firing the on-camera flash along with commander flashes. I just checked it to make sure I'm not up in the night and it works fine; the default is to not fire the on-camera flash in commander mode, but it can be changed while setting output for the other flash. You're absolutely right about losing range on it, though. It would be nice to have an SB-800/SB-900 for that reason. Nikon's CLS is reason enough for me to never switch brands.

Rx4Photo said:
Mike,

I get the feeling that if you were in my position having ordered both the SB-700 and SB-900 with plans of sending one back to Amazon...you'd just keep both of them, right :^ )

Hi Rx4Photo,

If I could afford it, yes. Both are capable of Commander (on the camera) and Remote, can be triggered from the camera or can be place on the camera as camera as Commander(the redundancy was intentional). A SC27 is around $70 or so, but a 3d party cable is about $15. It still uses either unit as a commander with the other unit on a stand and a light modifier as a remote. A two light kit opens up one's shooting ability a lot. In my view, as much or more than a third or fourth lens.

However, key to anything is your budget.

Kits' fullness come over the fullness of time. One light can do a lot, add a $15 Zeikos ZE-OCSCN Off Camera Shoe Cord for Nikon Flash for around $15 (or 2 for more reach) and you've changed direction of the light and you still have through-the-meter detection, something I would't give up. You can switch to manual if you want with the light.

My best,

Mike

Mike,

I get the feeling that if you were in my position having ordered both the SB-700 and SB-900 with plans of sending one back to Amazon...you'd just keep both of them, right :^ )

JorPet said:
I just bought a Gary Fong Puffer for the on camera flash (D700)and have been very happy with it so far. It isn't like moving to an off camera flash and it won't bounce, but for the $20 it cost it does an amazing job softening the light.

I have been playing with it a bit using the puffer and on camera flash in commander mode along with my SB-800 with a new Gary Fong light sphere held off camera (using my mono pod as a handle boom). It really makes for some excellent lighting for portraits and I love the double catch lights in the eyes.

So, for the holidays and to keep this extremely inexpensive, go for the Puffer. The light improvement will be very noticeable. Then save your dollars and go with the SB-600 or SB-700 as soon as you can afford one of them.

Hi JorPet,

One thing that kicked up my game a notch was to use either the SB800 or SB900 on camera or on the SC27 or similar cable as a Commander in the "--" or "iTTL" mode.

You can't use the on camera flash as a commander and as a flash, but the flashguns can be. It provides another light source that is adjustable, and will also increase the distance for the remote units. My use of the unit as a commander really increased not only efficiency, but creative placement. I have a Nikon SC27 cable and 2 of the Zeikos similar models that are shorter - they are shorter. You can align "Commader" as Main 15 feet from subject and 2 - 4 other flashes tuned in to what ever light up to 20 feet away, all iTTL.

Nikon, if I recall, says that the 'practical' limit is 15 strobes.

My best,

Mike

jonnyapple said:

Mike, I love my alien bees.

Hi Johnny,

You'll note I wasn't dissing them. I've been looking at them, but for now my light kit is in two bags with stands, wires, tape, the strobes, and the rest. While I am guilty of taking just about everything to all jobs - a bad habit - it's not terribly taxing.

I've got an outdoor wedding on New Year's Day next to a frozen lake, and we're hoping for good weather - at least just freezing. The venue is gorgeous. I use multiple SB800s and SB900s for fill. I'm expecting it to be really nice, unless the weather turns on us, then we'll make some lemon aide.

My best,

Mike

I just bought a Gary Fong Puffer for the on camera flash (D700)and have been very happy with it so far. It isn't like moving to an off camera flash and it won't bounce, but for the $20 it cost it does an amazing job softening the light.

I have been playing with it a bit using the puffer and on camera flash in commander mode along with my SB-800 with a new Gary Fong light sphere held off camera (using my mono pod as a handle boom). It really makes for some excellent lighting for portraits and I love the double catch lights in the eyes.

So, for the holidays and to keep this extremely inexpensive, go for the Puffer. The light improvement will be very noticeable. Then save your dollars and go with the SB-600 or SB-700 as soon as you can afford one of them.

post deleted by me,
Rx

Hey. :-)

I'm on a tight budget, so no SB600 now..

The thing is I'm getting my Tamron lens first (17-50), and I'll have some cash left (up to around 100 usd). And I suppose I'd really use a flash for the upcoming Christmas family parties. But at the moment I really can't spend as much as SB-600 costs. :-)

Unless I just construct a tiny difuse/bounce plate for the in-camera flash and go with that for now. ;-) The SB-24 (used ofc) is actually around the price I'd be willing to pay.

Thanks for clues!
The SB-600 is currently too expensive, but I may opt to buy it at a later time. Should work with the SB-24 as a master? At least I hope. ;-)

My vote's for the SB-600 even if it's out of your budget right now. Or, the SB-700 is much more user-friendly than the SB-600.

Mike, I love my alien bees. I've got a B400 with their big octobox, and then I've got 3 other B400s on loan indefinitely from my sister (I've offered to buy them a few times, but she's one of those unselfish types). I got some cheap ishoot wireless triggers and it's an awesome setup that's pretty portable. The soft box folds up to about the size of one of those collapsible camp chairs. I'm considering getting a couple of B800s next year now that I've got true ISO 100 with the D7000. But the only time I need that much power is lighting big family groups indoors, so other priorities might get in the way.

Hi,

Vall's on a budget, so he is likely going to want to go as inexpensively as he can. The SB600/SB700 are going to be on the table as well as the SB400 (the latter being my last choice).

If it were me, I would likely save up big go long for a SB900. It's the most expensive of the lot, but has Mastering capabilities which can make a difference later on. Adding a SC-28 (or third party compatible such as on from Optech or Zeikos) can put the flash a few feet off camera for a great light. Adding a modifier such as a Strobie or a Gary Fong diffuser will make it even spiffier. Total cost will go up, but the quality of the products from the output will, too, dramatically.

All that is an ouch-y, but there are some substitutes. Do a SB700 first, and use Zeikos cable(s) I have more than one and they work fine. You can upgrade to the SB900 later and use the SB700 as a "main" and "commander", you have a two light rig that will rock.

Just options, and an it is a "plan" to grow on.

My light kit is reasonably small for what it is, but at the same time, not too small. I can put some light in a decent size room, with or without wires using small strobes. I'm tempted sometimes to go to larger Alien Bees or some other kit, but my SB900s and SB800s and even SB24s do the job nicely - so far. But sometimes, when shooting a group, or in a larger room, I'm often think that I could use another flash tucked under a chair with a scrim on a wall. It never ends.

I think in the 'chase' of gear, you nearly always have to balance lenses and light, and supports, long before bodies.

My best to all,

Mike

Be careful before using an older flash with a digital camera, older flashes have a high trigger voltage that can damage the circuitry in your body...can you smell something burning ?

I've got both the SB-700 and the SB-900 on my desk right now. I initially ordered the 900 from Amazon because the 700 was not available. Lo and behold 2 days later Amazon had the 700 in stock so I ordered it with plans on comparing the 2. (I'll lose money on shipping). It's just my opinion but the 900 just kinda looms over the camera. It's a bit over-the-top for my taste sizewise even for a D7000. I also don't like the dot matrix print on the LCD screen. I like the heat meter on the 700 as there is not one on the 900. The 700 is more fitting in size and I just know I won't need a PC port at all for the shooting that I do. I've already gotten the return auth. for the 900 from Amazon so as of this moment that one's going back.

I said all of that to say this. In terms of budget I'd go for the SB-600 as it is cheaper than the 700 and likely more fitting for the D90 as compared to the SB-900.

if you are on a buget go for the SB600
if you are not go for the SB900

Thanks a lot with the tips.:-) I already read a couple of strobist's 101. It's nice and very useful, but I don't plan to use off camera flash anytime soon.;-) tho I believe I'll end up doing it eventually. So for now the LP is out.:-) and the new one is also a bit more expensive. Thanks!

The Lp120 is gone, and replaced by the more expensive (and more powerful) LP160, which I suspect is a bit out of your price range.

Any of the flashes you picked sound fine, but all of them have limitations. What I'd recommend depends on your level of experience. If all you want is something that can do bounce flash on top of your camera in auto mode and you don't ever want to use it off your camera, I'd say the SB400 is a pretty decent choice (but that's all it can do). The other flashes are ok, but I'm not sure about their compatibility with nikon's iTTL system. If you're comfortable with using your flash and your camera in manual mode for everything you do, that's probably not an issue. I'd also suggest adding the Vivitar 285HV to the list, as it's quite powerful, but not too expensive (and is also manual power only)

Otherwise, I'd suggest saving up more money for a SB-600/700/900.

SB-600 - cheap, has all the tech you need for the next 5 years and it Just works great. If you upgrade or buy a second flash it will work with it as well.

I 2nd the LumoPro LP 120. I don't own it but in researching the SB-700 the recommended flash for someone who didn't want to spend money on the SB-700 was to get the LumoPro LP 120 in the writeups that I read.

start here

http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/03/lighting-101.html

the LumoPro LP 120 named already in this thread is cheap, and was made for strobist.

Okay, ressurecting an old thread, but I'd use some help. :-)

First off, do you know any nice and useful online tutorials/literature for flash first-timer? Especially with portrait work. :-) I'd be very grateful.

Second, I'm looking for a cheap (and by cheap I mean CHEAP)flash for my D7000. I already looked closely at Nikon SB-600 but it looks like it's a bit out of my price range at the moment. Besides, I know so little about flashing I'd prolly not use it fully right now. :-)

I need a gun for family parties (indoors, low light) to bounce of the ceeling, sometimes to lit up a backlight portrait, maybe start playing with light on portrait shoots.. Something cheap for the start. :)

I've been looking at third party flashes, namely:
- Metz 24 AF-1
- Metz 36 AF-4
- Sunpak PF 30X
- used Nikon SB-400
- older Nikons (SB-25/26 etc)

(that's around the price range I can cruise around). As for the Nikon, the size/weight factor isn't that important to me, just the usefulness of the flash.

Third, what should I be looking for in a flash description? I reckon the movability of the lamp head is important, the lead number of course, anything else?

Thanks a lot for the info. :)

I'm a newb and still don't get the differences between all the speed-lights and their uses... :/

Ha! It looks like it might be working!

I'm with Willis - I'm trying mind over matter to wish into existance an SB700 with the 900's UI and a bit more power than the 600

Yes. The 900 can work in commander mode.

I hope the update to the 600 incorporates the design \ controls of the 900. If it can do that and be slightly more powerful than the 600 I'll probably get one.

I wasn't aware that the SB-600 could be triggered wirelessly. Then again, I don't own one, but am planning to buy one when its replacement will be announced.

Can the SB-900 work in commander mode too?

I beg to differ on the "better LCD" of the SB-600. I own both, and while its easier to see in bad light, it certainly isn't better, because its to convoluted to understand. Trying to set the 600 to wireless mode is the most convoluted and unintuitive process I could imagine. With the 800, it's not much better, but I can at least work my way through it. With the 600, I always have to go to the internet and read a quick walkthrough (I keep one stored on my iPhone now).

The main reason I want a SB-900, is that it has dedicated switches for this stuff, which is handy when you don't have all day to figure it out.

Also, the SB-800 can work in commander mode which is a huge plus for me as I'm usually relegated to shooting with the D40 (unless I can steal a camera from the "REAL" photographer in my household).