Great post, Mike. Insight and nostalgia are a rare and welcome combo. :]

Gareth said:
Perhaps I should have stated that I am not doing this for fun.

I have bought many thousands of dollars worth of equipment this year with the intention of becoming a freelance next year.

I NEED to get my skills to a saleable level as quickly as possible.

I have the equipment, i just need more skill.

I know I'm not going to be the best overnight, but I am fussy about things and want to be happy with what I am charging for.

Ummm...

It's a very crowded field with many talented practitioners so you need to approach it as if getting to be saleable (as you put it) is job, not like a part time activity to be squeezed in with childcare.

It might sound a little harsh (I'm not being nasty, honest) but lose the kids. By that I mean get a wife/nanny/daycare involved to care for the little ones when you go out so you CAN concentrate on the photography. It was amazing the first time I got to do that too, just as it was a real eye opener the first time I managed to employ an experienced assistant in a formal portrait setting or compare the impact of a high contrast print at a big (16x20" and larger) size when compared to 10x8" or smaller print.

I know it sounds bad, but at this stage, you are building up a portfolio to use as a selling tool. Consider yourself a salesman for your photography business. You just wouldn't expect a professional salesman (for medical equipment like X-ray machines or $100,000 construction equipment for example) to have a child hanging about to distract them, would you? Why would the salesman for YOUR business be any different?

As for skill enhancements, read books about the subject (a good tip is that second hand books are way cheaper than new and the vast majority of what you'll find in a 10 year old book about [for example] composition applies even with digital photography), take more photographs, do a short [one semester] course at a local college, take more photographs, read books about the subject (see above), take more photographs, go to photographic exhibitions, take more photographs... Did I say it would be a good idea to take more photographs? :-)

Hi Gareth,

After I returned from covering Vietnam, I worked for newspapers and went to school and raised my daughter. I had to take her to some of my shoots, even though she was a toddler, but being was able to have some 'help' from the sheriff's department or police department while I did my thing.

She was with me while, as she got a bit older, covering the more interesting civil rights, antiwar coverage of the early 70's, and the counter music scene, too.

When I went to editorial she was helping to build sets and did voice over work. She doesn't care about the work now, but that's fine with me.

I couldn't afford child care before she was old enough to go to school, and after school started for her, either, so she was with me. Her mother ultimately got custody, and I went back to active duty.

You can make it work, as I look back, with eyes shaped by the fullness of time, rather easily, considering the alternatives.

If you are going to be a freelancer, you'll likely need to be one of two things, a very good specialist or a very good, broad generalist. I don't know which path you'll chose to take, but you'll need to focus on that portfolio. Your children don't have to be a liability, and you shouldn't ever think of as such. You might even toy - for a short time - as a children's photographer. (My first regular paycheck came that way, with a 5x7 camera inside a furry stuffed bunny). It's rewarding work (in more than one way - a professional tip for everyone who doesn't known, parents think their children are beautiful, don't mess up the shoot and you more than half way home).

Ansel Adams told me that your in your work you need to see the light in and sense its mood and make sure your exposure captures 'that'. Sort of short, but kind of encapsulates the Zone system he was fond of, and really shortened the process, too. All of it should be a fairly quick-ish process (back to the 'how long' part of the question.

Working for the press, some of our setups were 2-5 seconds long. The burning building is falling right now, take the picture. In children's photography, the expression of the day is at 'this' moment an passes in an instant. But the same is true for the great outdoors guys, too. The alpine glow only lasts a few seconds, and you haul butt to get there to find the right place to setup, and move the tripod a few times and adjust it to make sure you get it right and likely, if you're lucky, you hit mark only a couple of times.

A lot of people think that good photography is just a matter of luck and gear, and I think that maybe if they understood what they were saying, I'd agree. If you're smart and experienced to pick out the right gear to use for the right situation and you've spent enough time with the gear and trained yourself on it and the craft, you'll be able to catch the 'lucky breaks'. ;-)

So take the kids, enjoy them and shoot them with your camera and make them a part of your adventure and scenery. They can help, in many ways develop your portfolio. This won't be the only time you'll have to work with things getting in the way in getting your shot.

One more, and the most important thing, as has been already pointed out, enjoy your children most.

My best, and I hoped it helped.

Mike

Gareth said:

How much effort do you put in to photos that are most likely only going to be seen by you? Is it only worth putting in maximum effort if the photo is going to be published in some way?

A thought just came to mind. Many famous musicians, the late Michael Jackson and "Prince" come to mind, had dozens of songs either on paper or already recorded in private studios long before they became famous. If they'd shirked on their skills during those early unknown recordings do you think they would have become as popular after being discovered?

As far as the kids go, just keep feeding them and they will continue to grow up. Get ready for a touch of heartbreak when they tell you they don't need your help doing something that you used to do for them. You'll find yourself longing for some of thoes early days.

Best regards,
Rx

Gareth said:
But is it really worth it if that picture is just going to sit in my lightroom library (ie; on my harddrive).

How much effort do you put in to photos that are most likely only going to be seen by you? Is it only worth putting in maximum effort if the photo is going to be published in some way?

Join a photography site where you can upload some of your work and you will see how your opinion on above changes . The fact that you can share your photos and be admired will motivate you more than you can imagine .

My photography had been idling/going nowhere until I joined a photo website 3 years ago and it made a huge difference in my work .

If you dont have time to get out and shoot without the kids how are you going to have time to shoot as a professional? Are you working another job right now. Freelance is a huge market and there are many out there trying to get into it. Like it has been said a few times if you start to relax in your shooting then you will be able to shoot better. Hope the best for you,
~cheers.

Gareth said:</
...I am not doing this for fun. I have bought many thousands of dollars worth of equipment this year with the intention of becoming a freelance next year. I NEED to get my skills to a saleable level as quickly as possible.

Yikes!

I thought the initial question was strange for a photographer to be asking. Start finding this fun. The rest might follow. I will say that I've seen a lot of event photographs taken by people who most certainly did not find this fun enough to master. It sure showed in their work, but people still hired them I guess. Maybe stay away from weddings or buy a bulletproof vest :)

What kind of equipment did you buy?

well like other people said in this thread, i would start taking your children's photograph. Tamara Lackey says if you can photograph them, you can do pretty much do everything else, portrait wise.

Also, if all else fails. Try making time to just go out during the "golden hour". It might not give you alot of time, but you wont have to wait for the light to be good.

Perhaps I should have stated that I am not doing this for fun.

I have bought many thousands of dollars worth of equipment this year with the intention of becoming a freelance next year.

I NEED to get my skills to a saleable level as quickly as possible.

I have the equipment, i just need more skill.

I know I'm not going to be the best overnight, but I am fussy about things and want to be happy with what I am charging for.

Anything worth doing, is worth doing correctly. So tie your lovely children to a nearby tree and take your time creating your images, or you could use your children while at the park playing to perfect your composition skills. The latter would also fill your albums with memories. It took me many years to learn that people were not always something in the way of a good shot.
My little girl just turned 21 and loves to go shooting with me and is working towards joining our photography business.

Good luck and happy shooting

I agree with anjz. I have so many photos of my little one its just silly. I mean everytime I want to work on something she will let me take her photo. I just have to give her ice cream+)

I've got a little girl. Before she was born, I took photos of her mom and landscape shots. Now, I take photos of mom and daughter; no time for landscapes anymore. And, I've gotten pretty good at portraits because of it! So, maybe just switch to photographing your kids. If you did not previously take "people shots," there will be a learning curve but as you fine tune your craft the fun will follow.

Some good advice already given.
When I had young kids, I went from lugging two SRTs to a decent Canon point and shoot. Took good enough photos for me to remember the moment (whether a scene, what the kids were doing, etc.). For me, memories do not have to be supplied with a perfect shot. Now that the kids are grown up, I'm glad I have the photos to prod my memories of things, people and events, and I again lug around serious equipment (but generally only one body at a time now).

I agree with NIko. Mine are now 10 and 15 and I can spend much more time and money on photography equipment than I could when they were 3 and 8. Back then I carried a point and shoot Coolpix that took fine snapshots of them and the places we went. Still a lot of great memories going through those photos.

As they get older I am getting back into photography as time and resources permit. I don't regret the years of snapshots one bit.

I that caase your best bet is to get yourself a good point and shoot or perhaps EVIL camera. Just take pics of kids, like nikodoby said they grow up fast.

Just enjoy spending time with your children. They will grow faster then you could ever imagine.

I already bought him a secondhand Canon point and shoot for Xmas. To be honest he is not the problem. My daughter is not happy unless she goes to a sanpo koen (a park with slides etc) and is not able to sit still for a second. She is a do girl, and if it takes time to learn, or requires more effort than she is willing to put in, she is not interested.

I bought some lunch boxes today and took them to a lake to eat them. There was snow, there was nature, there were birds I wanted to photograph, but there was no slide, so forget about it.

Gareth,

May i suggest you something else?

Buy really cheap or on discount older models of Point and Shoot cameras for your 6 years old son. And try to teach him some photography. This way when you guys go tot he park or whenever he can take pictures too. Later make sure to print his photos, since kids like tangible things, rather than starring at the computer screen. Maybe he will start looking forward to hanging out with you and taking pictures together.

Gareth said:
Now I have two small children and therefore almost no spare time. When I do have spare time I am usually too tired to go and take photos, and when I am out and about I ususally have the kids.

I think its fair to say that like most of us slightly more experienced adults here, we have been right where you are now.

As some of the most mature will say "This will pass."

Don't stress over missing some shots and as for the others, you are sharpening your visual skill set by KNOWING you are missing them! Try to keep a really good P&S or other compact camera with you, as might get a few of them... and you have your kids... use them as models... Once they grow and are doing their own thing AND you are out with your SLR again you will have a bunch of pictures you wouldn't otherwise have.

Imagine doing all this stuff with a completely manual film camera which is what I had to do (I still have a Nikkormat FT3), as it was three decades ago for me! It had the meter built into the viewfinder. I was constantly trying to get the meter needle inside the gap by moving the shutter speed dial and/or the aperture ring. It was way quicker than using a hand-held meter but not quite as accurate... Still - it worked most of the time - and I only lost my kids once (or twice) and they both survived it... Ahh the Memories.

Remember, if you can't use a decent SLR, always carry a good P&S compact.

you can never have too many pictures of your kids. one day that might be all you have left of them. .

Gareth said:I get stressed out that I miss shots that I see are great, but I don't have the time to stop, or set them up, so they pass me by, and sometimes get upset that I cannot get the shots I want to as I have too many other concerns.

I think you've just summed up EVERY member of the forum!

Hi Gareth. For what it's worth be satisfied in knowing that it does get better. I have 8 year old twin daughters. Back when they were 3, 4, and 5 I don't think I would have had the time to shoot photos like I do now. At those ages you have to watch your kids like a hawk because if you don't someone else might try something. For me it's a hobby, yet I can feel the urge to get more serious at it. I grew up in a house full of music (Mother) and construction (Father) so I'm genetically twisted toward being an artsy, hands-on, perfectionist thanks to my parents.

At 8 years old they know a little bit more about staying in place when asked, staying away from strangers, etc. and will allow me to stray off the beaten path when running errands to allow me to shoot a few pics. Patience is another story sometimes.

As far as composing that perfect shot if it's only going to stay in your computer. Two weeks ago I took my camera to work and shot a few pics of a couple of students that worked in my department. I later e-mailed to each of them copies of those pics. One student was a somewhat attractive female and I cropped a couple of portrait shots from the pics and sent them to her. She was so amazed that she now has one of the portraits on her "hire-me" web site touting her resume and academic achievements. I guess you never know where your photos will take you!

Regards.

Hi Gareth !

This brings back memories… I was working shifts (Airliners maintenance), seven days a week, night or day, sometimes both (!), and as time went by I had less and less time to spend on my usual hobbies. In fact, I had to switch them OFF totally for about 15 years because the few moments I could spare were spent studying at home to improve my qualifications and what was left was spent taking care of my daughter. However, I still managed to carry a camera with me all the time (A faithful Rollei 35), and took lots of photos of her, which she liked a lot of course, and I made her learn to compose to get better results with her own camera. But I was unable to go back to any serious photography and other hobbies until she started living her own life like all teenagers do.

My advice would be that you do carry a good P&S with you all the time, and make sure that you take pictures as carefully as possible so that you don't need to spend hours on your computer correcting your mistakes. Then, when you are satisfied, get your favorite shop to do the printing.

Best wishes for 2011 !

HiGareth, this brings back memories of when I use to fish a lot and then my little girls wanted to go with me all the time. I didn't catch as many fish after that but I had a lot more fun.

I shoot events mainly and I spend so much time just waiting for something to happen in order to shoot it. Then I take countless shots in order to find the composition that fits the subject matter best. Normally I'll shoot 400-500 shots an event, then I spend hours going through them while editing many of them in order to get 20 keepers. So I figure I have 10 minutes each in the final 20 pictures I provide for those I shoot for.

But as much time as I spend in doing this I wouldn't think twice about not taking my 3 year old grandson with me or let him sit on my knee while editing. I let him shoot my camera while I hold it and he loves it. If I'm shooting a Rodeo I'll take him behind the chutes to meet the bulls and etc first. Then his attention is no longer roaming all over the place.

Photography can truly be a family event. Can't think of a better way for a father or mother spending time bonding with their children, unless it's fishing. :-)

I suppose I was just moaning and ended up stating two different things.

Yes my kids keep me busy (i have been, though not now, an at home dad. I self taught my kids at preschool and am now Mr. Gareth at their English school).

-----------

But that is really irrelevant. I am currently amateur. I get stressed out that I miss shots that I see are great, but I don't have the time to stop, or set them up, so they pass me by.

I am not getting paid (when I am they will pay for the time of course) and sometimes get upset that I cannot get the shots I want to as I have too many other concerns.

Is taking the time to get a fantastic shot that no one will see worth all the stress?

------------

Maybe that makes more sense.