DaveKona said:
Giving away photography devalues it. It is that simple. If you're livelihood is photography, this will hurt you.

People have always given photographs away for free, now when we start seeing very good photographers shooting a full day wedding/event, producing excellent photos and giving them to the client edited on DVD, and in a lovely album for nothing, then I'll be very worried.

Simple solution: Upload a lower resolution image and watermark it.

At the end of the day, your solely relying on another company to market and promote your material. For many photographers, they are their own business and I would never simply rely on someone else, or a company in taking YOU forward.

Facebook is simply a "tool" You just have to know how to use it.

SkintBrit said:
I'm not sure why this should be a problem. People have always been able to send any size picture they want via email, yes sure having someone put a load of photos of an event in one location that can be downloaded by anyone for free, may break the monopoly of the pro, but the official pro will still normaly be the only one to have all areas access, be able to shoot from positions not available to regular guests, have the program of events so can be in the right place at the right time etc etc. You don't say why the organisers of your event wanted the services of both of you, but I don't see why you being there is 'automatically' a problem, any more than it is for guests at a wedding to take snapshots.

Giving away photography devalues it. It is that simple. If you're livelihood is photography, this will hurt you.

avro, I didn't take a single picture and the pro photographer said he would tell the organizer why I left on his request. I sent an email to the organizer to make sure he was informed properly. The event was a dance/party that involved over 500 people at our local Hard Rock. Thank you and everyone else on here for your suggestions, they are truly appreciated.

Okay, that clears it up. I don't think you should have been browbeaten so easily. You had every right to be there and do what you were doing.

Did you get enough photos to cover your arrangements with the organiser and keep them happy?

Next time, if you have someone else you know and trust to take good pictures, get them to join you - and make a proposal to the organiser that you'll be happy to cover the lot - in much the same way the pro-photographer might have done - and try to get exclusivity on the event, and shop those images out (or do whatever you need to cover your costs). I don't know what sort of event this was or how large it was - but it seems quite big.

I've come across similar things before, but I've had the better access and generally got the photos that are visually more pleasing - along with others that aren't possible for people outside the fence/barriers to achieve. So I'm just thinking about my images, and not what everyone else is doing.

SkintBrit, I agree with all three of your statements and I too would of had him shoot me last night with a couple of the lovely single ladies there. You make a very good point if the pro photographer creates a quality picture he/she shouldn't have issues with a shot someone has up on Facebook.

Maybe this is a good thing on Facebook as it weeds out the pro photographers unwilling to provide a quality product?

Bland said:
avro, both of us were asked by the organizer to be there. I was asked to do crowd shots and the pro was asked to take portrait shots of the couples attending. The pro had 4 people working for him and was afraid he couldn't sell his pictures to those he shot if I had my pictures on Facebook where they could download my full size crowd shots instead.

The 2 of you are taking completely different shots. As has been said before, just don't download a large file to FB, then all anyone can print off will be a small thumbnail.

Bland said:
where as in the day of digital everyone has 100's of pictures of themselves and find it odd they would have need to pay someone for one more shot.

I don't agree, there are very few professional pictures of myself and my wife, in fact at the moment I can think of only 1. I'm always taking the photos, so when I went to a posh party where I was dressed up in a tux (not a common occurrence) I was only too pleased to buy a well shot photo of the evening.

Bland said:
Here's one last thought that hit me today (not directed to any post on here), what about the people attending last night that were taking snap shots of themselves. Should the pro of asked them not to do so? Obviously not, nor should he of had issues of being there.

My earlier point about a wedding exactly. If someone is happy with a framed photo taken at an event by an opportunist with a point and shoot camera (i'm not referring to you in that category Bland, but I think you know what I mean) then so be it, I still think most people wouldn't, and as has also been said here, it's the pro shots job to make sure his pictures blow anyone elses out of the water, if he can't do that then he deserves what he gets. Anyone happy with a snapshot, would not have been a customer of the Pro anyway, as they obviously don't appreciate a good photo.

As a photographer who uses Facebook as a means of distribution for low end events the high resolution option is a godsend. Requests for prints are dwindling, so I just include a small fee for Facebook uploading (on my end, nothing you can do about the client). At least now uploads on Facebook retain coloration better.

avro, both of us were asked by the organizer to be there. I was asked to do crowd shots and the pro was asked to take portrait shots of the couples attending. The pro had 4 people working for him and was afraid he couldn't sell his pictures to those he shot if I had my pictures on Facebook where they could download my full size crowd shots instead.

I've been looking at this at every angle today and it boils down to people rather having a picture they can download (full rez) or even copy of themselves (low rez), than paying for their picture. I think timmytimer is correct and that times have changed and we need to adapt to them. In the years of film people had few pictures of themselves, where as in the day of digital everyone has 100's of pictures of themselves and find it odd they would have need to pay someone for one more shot.

Here's one last thought that hit me today (not directed to any post on here), what about the people attending last night that were taking snap shots of themselves. Should the pro of asked them not to do so? Obviously not, nor should he of had issues of me being there.

If your photos are better, then you'll still get the interest. Alternatively, have it organised that non-official photographers will not be able to take photos.

Bland said:
Last night I went to shoot crowd shots at an event by request of the organizer. As always when I do this I checkin with the pro-photographer to make sure he hasn't any problem with me being there and explaining my intent. Never have I had an issue until last night once I told the pro-photographer that I would be putting my pictures on Facebook. He went off on me like flies on molasses and I left respectfully.

So, you were requested to take photos by the organiser? You probably should have stayed and got your photos. The other "pro" photographer who reprimanded you, was he also requested to take these sorts of photos by the organiser? One of you probably should have had exclusivity on this event.

Don't upload full resolution photos to facebook. Problem solved.

timmytimer said:
I won't reiterate what others have said about working around the FB features. But I do want to get people to look above this specific issue. Technology has changed things. Duh, right? Any time you make an image available on the Internet you provide opportunity for that image to be used in a way you may not like or in a way that may be illegal. The fact that an image is being displayed on a computer screen means that image can be harvested regardless of what you do.

The main point I want to make is simply to get the (semi-) professional photographer to understand that times have changed. So how are you, the (semi-) professional going to adapt your business model to accommodate the changing market conditions? Where is the opportunity to generate revenue in new market conditions? How does one capitalize on new opportunities created through new technology?

As a small business owner myself, I ask these questions frequently. Those who will be successful will find the answers to these questions. My final point, FB will not be the death of the professional photographer, they'll kill themselves by not recognizing their business model no longer works.

I like this. I will keep it in mind when I go into business next year.

NSXType-R said:
It doesn't seem to be available on every photo though right?

I looked at my own photos, I can't seem to be able to download any of them at full resolution.

it's possible one can't download one's own photos, but I don't know for sure.

It doesn't seem to be available on every photo though right?

I looked at my own photos, I can't seem to be able to download any of them at full resolution.

If facebook allowing people to download full size photos is going to bring the death of event pro-photographers, they need to get way better.

I won't reiterate what others have said about working around the FB features. But I do want to get people to look above this specific issue. Technology has changed things. Duh, right? Any time you make an image available on the Internet you provide opportunity for that image to be used in a way you may not like or in a way that may be illegal. The fact that an image is being displayed on a computer screen means that image can be harvested regardless of what you do.

The main point I want to make is simply to get the (semi-) professional photographer to understand that times have changed. So how are you, the (semi-) professional going to adapt your business model to accommodate the changing market conditions? Where is the opportunity to generate revenue in new market conditions? How does one capitalize on new opportunities created through new technology?

As a small business owner myself, I ask these questions frequently. Those who will be successful will find the answers to these questions. My final point, FB will not be the death of the professional photographer, they'll kill themselves by not recognizing their business model no longer works.

While it's entirely up to FB to decide whether to provide a disable option to that feature, uploaders should ensure that their pictures are not more than 720 pixels on the long side. This way, even the high resolution download will still be the same size as the one on screen

like these photos:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=3267583&id=2040890&l=f8b47dc471

I usually pre-set my lightroom settings to export 1000 pixels at the longest edge at 100ppi, and add my copyright watermark on the photos in the lower right hand corner. I've even saved an export preset "facebook" so it'll be the right settings.

For people uploading snapshots, this feature is fine, though misleading, because usually people don't upload "high-resolution" versions of any photo. But for people uploading photographs, this should be an optional feature.

Too many people think they can simply save facebook photos and use them (which violates the terms of service, since it says on there that use of photos implies the photo belongs to the person), and I've had to go after them and ask them to 1) ask permission, and 2) leave the photo uncropped (leaving the original composition and the watermark).

I hope facebook adds an option to disable the full-res downloading globally and per each album/photo.

TheX-Man said:
Maybe just upload a smaller rez onto facebook?

This is what I'll be doing in the future but it won't stop others from doing so.

SkintBrit, what happens is people will always take a free picture over one for sell most of the time. At events people are free to roam and have the same access as the pro-photographer, with exception of major concerts and etc.

My photography is a community service without charge for events in my area and the media in town uses my Facebook photo pool for their website coverage, as do those I shoot for.

I'm not in it for the money but I don't want to ever hurt the pro-photographer in making a living.

Wow, I think downloading full rez does kind of suck if that's your main gig. Maybe just upload a smaller rez onto facebook? That would then require them to come to you if they want a larger print. Otherwise I don't see a problem with posting it on facebook.

I'm not sure why this should be a problem. People have always been able to send any size picture they want via email, yes sure having someone put a load of photos of an event in one location that can be downloaded by anyone for free, may break the monopoly of the pro, but the official pro will still normaly be the only one to have all areas access, be able to shoot from positions not available to regular guests, have the program of events so can be in the right place at the right time etc etc. You don't say why the organisers of your event wanted the services of both of you, but I don't see why you being there is 'automatically' a problem, any more than it is for guests at a wedding to take snapshots.

Last night I went to shoot crowd shots at an event by request of the organizer. As always when I do this I checkin with the pro-photographer to make sure he hasn't any problem with me being there and explaining my intent. Never have I had an issue until last night once I told the pro-photographer that I would be putting my pictures on Facebook. He went off on me like flies on molasses and I left respectfully.

Here's the rub Facebook is getting after adding a new feature last week. I've always put my event pictures on Facebook (by organizer/promoter request) so people can tag their picture for their Facebook. But Facebook has now added a new feature where people can download the full size jpeg at no charge. Which literally sinks the boat of any pro-photographer trying to sell their pictures.

Here's an example, please excuse the picture of me getting spanked by my grandson. lol Once you open the link go to the lower right hand side of the picture and you'll see the new function "Download In Full Resolution", then click on it.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1328595&l=0cf7767f90&id=1647615973

I've got mixed feelings about it but the fact is Facebook is here to stay.