Noise in images is an interesting topic. Especially as I have been scanning some old Tri-X negatives from the 1960's. Interestingly enough, I have no problem posting my photos on Flickr at 2000-3000px size, so any defects, imperfections, etc. show up. Then I can look at them critically. And, if one is going to talk about how noisy photos are we all need to post the images on Flickr at a large enough size so noise can be seen easily.

So, I have opened this thread up again, and we can all talk about noise, my suggestion being we post links to a 3000px size photo so it is large enough to see what is going on.

Here is a D4, 17,959 ISO at 2000px and it is noisy..

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fantinesfotos/7029473223/sizes/o/in/set-72157631170271000/

Or Nikon D4, 70-200mm f/2,8 VRII Nikkor, TC20-EIII 1/400 sec f/7.1 ISO 51,200 Taken in almost total darkness

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fantinesfotos/7267264408/sizes/o/in/photostream/

I have no problem with noise as there would be no photo at all with film or a camera which has no noise.

This is 800% enlargement of the image top left corner with LENR ON, and I do not see any lines really:

And this one is enlarged even more and "enhanced" so hot pixels are visible, but bare in mind that this is 5 min ISO 3200 shot and that the noise is random in its nature:

LOL, today I was reviewing some images I shot at ISO 1600 on the camera and I nearly died of shock when I saw the insane amount of noise in the image! It's going to take a while to get used to having High-ISO Noise Reduction off...

@mb, the 5min NoiseRed ON picture looks very strange ... you have horizontal lines and what seem like JPEG artifacts especially around the edges. I can understand the artifacts around the edges, as with the OFF picture there is more noise around the edges, but what about the lines?

mb said:
No point at all so please do not use it, it makes a photo looks more like a draft painting ...

I've already turned it off :^)

Thanks for the help everyone!

alphanikonrex said:
What mb and pabnj makes the most sense to me. The point of using is RAW is not to loose detail. That's made up my mind—I'm leaving all High-ISO NR off. No point, because it kills the detail which I'm trying to retain by shooting RAW.

No point at all so please do not use it, it makes a photo looks more like a draft painting ...

What mb and pabnj makes the most sense to me. The point of using is RAW is not to loose detail. That's made up my mind—I'm leaving all High-ISO NR off. No point, because it kills the detail which I'm trying to retain by shooting RAW.

poster said:
Stop worrying so much man. Just shoot!

I do shoot! But worrying is one of my hobbies! ;^)

I must say I am in agreement with mb, and monty11. In camera noise reduction can't compare to the results you can achieve in the computer with good software. I find you loose too much detail with the in camera noise reduction not to mention it is useless to me as well. All I shoot is RAW, and I do not even see the changes in my converter, but when I look at the JPEGs of some test shots, the details are gone so why use it at all?

I took the shoots at ISO 3200 to exaggerate the noise.
At lower ISO it is almost invisible up until 10 minutes.
D90 (and D300) sensor is pretty good as far as the dark current noise is in question.

All of this techno talk of yours is crinkling my brain.

Anyway, Alpha why are you worrying about buffer and speed if you are shooting for yearbook. Unless you are doing sports, you shouldn't have any problems. Use an external speedlite and your good to go. Bounce it for more pleasant looking images and no need to even go as far as 800 ISO.

I do event photography in darkly lit restaurants/cruises. ISO 800 F 7.3 1/25th Flash 1/16th power with compensation for either .3 or .7 stops over. And It's bounced off a gray ceiling too. There's still enough ambient light to be balanced with the flash. Ohh and I am stuck with crummy D40. Cheap corporate johns. Blahh

I would show you samples, but I am restricted to do so. =[

Stop worrying so much man. Just shoot!

LOL, I was asking about High ISO NR, not Long Exposure, but what the heck now I know which one to leave on and which one to leave off. I usually keep Long Exposure NR off because it's really annoying with long exposures when I have to wait twice the time, but now I'm thinking otherwise. Thanks for the sample shots soap and mb!

Nice. Compare and contrast with this test shot on a D200 I had made for an earlier thread:

twice the exposure length and half the ISO should make the background noise comparable, but the amp noise can't be compared. Your D90 has the amp noise well under control, though, regardless.

To show what Long Exposure Noise Reduction does I took two shots, RAW NEF no post production what so ever except for resizing.

Long Exposure Noise Reduction ON, 5 minutes exposure (actually 10 minutes because camera took a second 5 minutes shot with shutter closed to measure the dark current noise)

Long Exposure Noise Reduction OFF, 5 minutes exposure. Low noise is due to very good quality of D90 sensor.

This is completely different from HI ISO noise reduction and can not be done any other way, but it only makes sense and is noticeable for shots more then a minute long. RAW or JPEG it changes the image and you can clearly see processing because camera is taking a second shot and shows NR job message.

adamz said:
this function only applies to jpg's generated straight from the camera, not RAW

What function?

this function only applies to jpg's generated straight from the camera, not RAW

Yup, I was thinking of the long exposure NR. Didn't even know about the other one ... so another fancy function not to look forward to :)

Hi Monty, long time no see ...
Long Exposure Noise Reduction turns after 8 seconds or so and it affects all images RAW and JPEG alike because it works by shooting twice (second shot with shutter closed as mentioned) and combining the images. This can not be simulated by any other software because it works for this particular sensor and environment at the time of shooting.
High ISO Noise Reduction built in the camera is unusable for me because, as you sad Monty, computer software does this better.

I'm pretty sure that noise reduction won't kick in before you start take shots with longer exposure. You can test it, but I think it was 1 second and longer.

And RAW files are raw files, if you have some settings turned on in the camera it will just add some data and you should be able to choose whether you use them or not, I'm not at my PC but in the PSE ACR the third tab allows you to choose the settings. If you have software that is better in reducing noise than the camera then turn it off.

alphanikonrex said:
You don't need a D3(S), it's just if you want the best results it's a smarter choice. BTW, what happened to the D700?

Nothing yet, still best not so pro camera around for high ISO.

mb said:
Ordinary high ISO Noise Reduction does not affect RAW NEF files, only JPEG.

I doesn't CHANGE the RAW file, but it does supply the Noise Reduction "info." If I open a RAW file in View NX I see the same image as the JPEG that I also got out of the camera.

mb said:
If you need to shoot with ISO higher than 3200 you need D3 or even better D3s to do it.

You don't need a D3(S), it's just if you want the best results it's a smarter choice. BTW, what happened to the D700?

Ordinary high ISO Noise Reduction does not affect RAW NEF files, only JPEG.
Long Exposure Noise Reduction (very advisable if you shoot in low light situation and it does not affect normal shooting) does affect RAW NEF because camera takes the second shot with shutter closed and reduces hots pixels in the process.
If you need to shoot with ISO higher than 3200 you need D3 or even better D3s to do it.

Gentoo, you use Capture NX, right? I know you're able to "add" Picture Controls and D-Lighting to RAW images after the fact. Can you also add High ISO Noise Reduction?

Well thanks and I will take your suggestions into consideration when shooting next that's for sure.

LOL, I shoot for ISO's between 100-6400 ;^)

The D300's great with high ISO considering the D200 it followed. But better ISO performance is always welcomed. Your bird pictures are great anyway, regardless of ISO cleanliness :^)

I usually shot for ISO's between 400 and 1000; 200 for white birds or when the sun is really bright. I have a few ISO 1600 shots from both my D300 and even my D40 when I had it. I understand where you're coming from with those indoor shots. I have a few shots at ISO 3200:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v359/acecool/models/Karlita2_pp.jpg

Still fairly clean. This can work well for people shots but I need a camera with at least one stop more ISO performance to shoot birds like this at this ISO.