Thanks everyone, Nikoner you made me smile and are very likely right, the D90 looks the route to go. All I have to do now is sell the idea to him! If it wasn't for the fact that he's been saving up for a camera all year, doing any job he can around the house to earn money (my car has never looked so clean :-) I would suggest that he wait and save up some more for a D7000 or recon D300s. I think if I suggest that you might hear the explosion from your house.

My D90 was not only a refurbished camera but it had only like 5000 actuations when I bought it and it still shoots great at 160,000 actuations and a year later...

SkintBrit - I would not worry about buying reconditioned D90, like all electronics there is no telling when it would fail regardless of new or refurbished. With that in mind I have abused my D90 using it in rain, sand, and even dropped it couple of times, it is built robust.

With regards to your son’s inexperience, do not underestimate as he has been privileged to shadow a real professional photog. He will soon out grow his D90 (let alone a 3100) and come gunning for your FX equipment. Plus if he is going to be your assistant at professional events, chances are he may get lucky with a shot that you might miss; why not give him good gear that would help him be a subcontractor to his dad?

SkintBrit - D90 for sure - the metering and AF mooter are well worth the extra $ and gives him options for buying used lenses. Do a forum search to find more about the two.

Thanks PAG.

I have a D90 and yes, it has an AF motor (unlike the D5000 or D3100). I use the 80-400mm f/4.5-5.6 with it all the time. It's not speed demon, but the AF certainly works fine.

The D90 is my first SLR. One thing that I have found to be invaluable as a beginner is the LCD display on top of the camera (unlike the D5000 or D3100). When changing or checking settings, which happens often when doing bird photography, I use it constantly. And even though I had zero experience, I found the D90 very easy to learn.

tcole1983 said: If you are looking at the D3100 then it doesn't seem that it not having the body AF screw matters.

Good point, I hadn't even thought about that, never having even held a D90 does it have a AF motor? He has also expressed a desire to get a battery grip at some stage in the future, probably because my D700 and 3s have them, but this on it's own would rule out the 3100. It's looking like the 90 is the best option, thanks for your help.

I guess that is really for you to decide which one to get, but I think the D90 is still a better picture taking camera. I don't really think the D3100 video is still all that great so i don't know if that is really a benefit. The D3100 has some upgrades, but personally I would still take the D90 over the D3100 for picture taking. If you think he will outgrow the D3100 quickly then he might just do that. I know I quickly got bored of my P&S cameras. I don't know if others would agree with it, but I would even go to recommend a refurbished D5000 if you could find it. The price should be down now. If you are looking at the D3100 then it doesn't seem that it not having the body AF screw matters. Just something to think about. Picture quality is pretty comparable to the D90 and has more options then the D3100 (I think..if it is anything like the D3000 was).

Thanks for your replies concerning your thoughts on the quality of refurbs, but having said what you've said, would you go for the 3100 or the 90 in my sons possition? The 3100 would seem to be the best option if he intends to video for any amount of time, but I'm guessing the D90 is even allowing for it's age, still the better stills camera?

Never pay retail!

I've purchased three or four Nikon film bodies as refurbs over the years--all were fine. And, nearly every new Nikon lens I've ever purchased was a refurb. Thankfully, I've never had a problem. Shop carefully, however, since many large retailers mark their refurbs up way too high. If you can establish a good relationship with your local Nikon dealer, he'll often "tip you off" on great deals on refurb stock when it comes in. I just picked up a brand new-looking AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G VR I for only $1,300 USD. Another retailer was asking $1,799 for the same refurbished lens model.

But, apparently, refurbished Nikon lenses tend to be far more deeply discounted than bodies. The lowest price I've ever seen on a refurbished D700 has been $2,200 USD.

[Note: Nikon USA refurbished products only come with a 90-day warranty.]

I will have to go against TaoTeJared...my D5000 body was refurbished and it was flawless. The manuals and every item were still wrapped like new. I couldn't tell that it had been used at all. I got mine last January and haven't had a single problem. I actually got the kit so it came with a refurbished 18-55 kit lens and it was worked and looked flawlessly as well. I personally wouldn't hesitate to buy another refurbished by Nikon product.

bernard said:
I can see that it's probably better to buy this equipment than the one coming from the production line.

I would be very careful with that statement and would in most cases disagree with it. I buy allot of 2nd hand and reconditioned equipment and many times it works well but I can tell it is not new.

One very key item - warranty is usually 30, 60 or 180 days rather than the 5 year warranty. I have been burned twice and will never buy something reconditioned unless I'm saving at least 40%. If it is a flash - probably not a big deal. If it is a $1000 lens and you only save $200 and something goes wrong in after the warranty - you will spend $200+ to fix it. To me it is not worth it.

Most refurbished products are looked at, tested, and re-boxed by the manufacture. This does not mean the person is a true certified tech, but just some person who does a quick check in probably less than 2 minutes. They miss many things. If an item is broken, they toss it (unless it is a high $ Pro item.)

adamz has it right except for the old models - they are still sold as new. For the USA, there are laws outlining what can and can not be sold as new and refurbished.

Hi guys (& gals)! This seems like a good thread to add my question too. So here goes.
My 15 year old son has been watching me shooting weddings/events etc, and would like do a bit of 'bonding' with his Dad by getting his own camera. As I only have Nikon equipment, I suggested to him that he might like a D3100 two lens kit? After Christmas he should have saved/been given enough money to afford this. My question is, I have also seen an add for Nikon reconditioned D90s with a single lens and 3 months warranty for the same or less money. Which do you think he would be better with? He has no photographic experience, other than what he's seen me do, so the 3100 would be ideal for him to 'self learn' with, but with my help, I think he will quite quickly not need the guide mode and find it limiting? His has some concerns over buying "second hand", which I can empethise with, £750 when you're 15 (come to think of it also when you're not :-) is a lot of money, and he is worried about only have a short guarantee. The 3100 would obviously be brand new with an extra lens and 2 years warranty. What would you all go for? Would you worry about buying reconditioned?

Thanks for any advice you may have.

Thanks pabnj ! I will see my favorite shop and see if they heard about those. I wouldn't buy on the web overhere since many people got in deep trouble with that (Goods not delivered from France but from Hongkong, wrong type of camera or lens, etc, etc…). I might even go and ask the Nikon service place in Paris and see what they think.

Adamz, Bernard, Many countries have reconditioned bodies, you just have to look for them. Manufactures don't advertise them heavily since they do not want to compete against new inventory. Many times if you asked your camera dealer, they can tell you, or order one for you. In the US they are dealers that also speacialize in reconditioned products. Try a websearch and see what results you get.

In my experience in the U.S. the refurbished Nikon bodies have only a 90-day Nikon warranty, compared to the 1-year Nikon warranty on new bodies. While most new-equipment failures are likely to show up in 90 days, I have had failures beyond 90 days and within 1 year. I don't know about lenses, which when new typically have an extended 5-year warranty available for those registering the equipment with Nikon.

You're right bmxdad ! That's why I was confident that Nikon would get it right in the end :o)

But if the Yen value was not so high, I would have bought my equipment in Japan, and MADE IN JAPAN. The stuff they produce over there is way above any criticism in quality and service too. I did that for my Nikkomat and my F2 + lenses (A few years ago… :o) and I never had any problem.

One good example of the service you get in Japan: My wife had bought one Sony U20, a tiny little 2MPx camera, and its sensor failed. So we took it back to Japan on our next trip, phoned Sony, and two days later, Sony sent a courrier to pick it up and brought it back repaired at no charge at all a week later. When you know that the camera value was less than $ 100.00, and the guy who picked it up had to travel across Tokyo which is a huge town (A bit like Los Angeles if not wider), you see what I mean about their service ! :o)

bernard said:
Thanks to all of you !

I can see that it's probably better to buy this equipment than the one coming from the production line.

That's probably why I had three big problems with my photo equipment made in Thailand and sold in France: My 16-85 which came as a kit with my D-60 did not work and I got it replaced straight away. The new one started developing the same problem (VR) a week later and I took it to Nikon who replaced the whole VR part in it. Then my D300 was not recognizing the lenses from time to time and gave me series of black shots (In fact highly underexposed) while shooting airplanes in continuous mode, and I took it to Nikon twice before it was finally OK. Phewwww ! There was enough there to switch to Canon but I believe they're a lot worse than that, so I kept calm and I stuck to Nikon, and I was right :oD

Thanks again ! I hope they start these re-conditioned items over here soon…

Don't worry Canon have given me a similar nightmare, believe me. I think that overall all Brands are trying to cut corners anywhere they think they can get away with it, at that does not always work out for them

Pete

I have purchased two refurbished bodies and not a lick of problem with either one of them.

yup, I would also like to have refurbished items over here in Poland

Thanks to all of you !

I can see that it's probably better to buy this equipment than the one coming from the production line.

That's probably why I had three big problems with my photo equipment made in Thailand and sold in France: My 16-85 which came as a kit with my D-60 did not work and I got it replaced straight away. The new one started developing the same problem (VR) a week later and I took it to Nikon who replaced the whole VR part in it. Then my D300 was not recognizing the lenses from time to time and gave me series of black shots (In fact highly underexposed) while shooting airplanes in continuous mode, and I took it to Nikon twice before it was finally OK. Phewwww ! There was enough there to switch to Canon but I believe they're a lot worse than that, so I kept calm and I stuck to Nikon, and I was right :oD

Thanks again ! I hope they start these re-conditioned items over here soon…

Bernard, my brother used to work for Toshiba some years ago, and I have bought alot "B-Stock" products through him and saved a ton of money. I got the same warranty as new, and they always worked perfectly well. Most manufacturers will give you the same warranty.

Depending on the product, buying "B-Stock is better because a factory technician actually services the product, and performs calibrations which can't be done in production.

I might add bodies that were used by Nikon reps as demo.

bernard - reconditioned bodies can be one of the following:
- bodies that have been returned by customers
- bodies that had been serviced and refurbished by the manufacturer
- bodies that had been taken off from production - not longer listed as a new models

Can you guys explain exactly what are these reconditioned bodies ? Do they have the same Nikon guarantee as a 100% new equipment ?

Are they used ones which have been overhauled ? Or are they cameras that go wrong from the start, then repaired, and cannot be sols as new ?

I noticed this kind of sales in a huge outlet in San Marcos, especially for Hifi, TV, etc… My first feeling was that I would not trust them, but they were selling like mad just the hour I was there watching, which made me think twice.

We don't have these in France at the moment (Or they do sell them but keep it quiet…:o).
They could be interesting because they are probably better checked than cameras which come out of the factory with just the routine sample checks I guess ?