Interesting, Dutch Nikon, thanks very much!

Just for the record though I've never once flown from Schiphol to the US. Finland (Schengen country as I recall), Russia, Canada (my country), and mostly Curacao (part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands--in some sense, a domestic flight!). I've always gone through the second check--but to be fair I haven't flown through there in a couple years.

The biggest hassles were actually on the flights to Curacao. And I found that strangest of all: yes, there's a drug trade between Holland and the Islands but I'm betting 95% of the drugs by cash value are flowing in the opposite direction. (And Curacao customs/immigration couldn't care less... "You're leaving? OK!")

"so I didn't get that either"

Me neither .... :-)

"the inspector wanted to know where I bought my D90"

Well in tense times they do ask that kind of questions because it also seems to have happened that ppl were given "presents" which seemed to contain xplosive stuff at the entrance of the airport.

Never had any trouble with those inspectors at Schiphol..

The second check & metal detectors at the exit gates do not function as an exit check, but a check for entering USA territory when boarding the planes.
These were, as far as i'm aware, installed at request of the USA government as they are always paranoid for ppl carying stuf they do not like to much into the airplanes, so do not blame the Dutch for that..

Generally when boarding a plain that flies between European countries this second check is not there, and you only go once through the metal detectors for those flights..

Dutch Nikon... as well you might, but I have a question for you.

I've flown through Schiphol many times. I've seen some weird stuff there. (I was mistakenly booked on the semi-secure floor of the hotel after the fire in the holding pens, for starters...) but here's what I don't get: Why is there a second round of metal detectors and questions at the gate? That is, I've already gone through Passport Control (we don't do exit interviews in North America, you don't want me in your country, fine, I'm leaving anyway damnit, but never mind...) and Security and then there's another whack of it at the gate. Without fail, this delays our boarding and without fail the plane leaves late. Like, 20 times out of 20.

The last time through, the inspector wanted to know where I bought my D90. "Not in the aeroport" was not a good enough answer... and if it was in the aeroport, who cares? He asked me over and over what I had pictures of. Walking down the ramp the passenger behind me said "Don't mind him, he's Frisian", and everybody I met in Leeuwarden and Groningen were fine, so I didn't get that either.

Ok guys, you have convinced me, i am not traveling to the USA , no holydays, no "Vegas trip", no California Beaches, nothing of that all ..:-)
I rather stay at this side of the atlantic ocean... :-)

LOL McFAILin'

The InfoWars.com story is misleading in one important respect. It is true, as the storyteller wrote, there's no FEDERAL law or rule against photographing an airport security check-in point (as long as you don't take a picture of the screen of one of the security scanners), but there could be local or state laws that prohibit it, as the TSA Web page warns. The incident reported in the InfoWars article took place in Puerto Rico, which might have such a rule---which is what the TSA agent alleged before confiscating the camera although I didn't try to confirm that claim---and if that's the case, the TSA is entitled to enforce the local ordinance against photography. My understanding could be faulty but in any event the TSA has no arrest authority; they can deny you boarding a plane or entry past the checkpoint, but if they accuse you of breaking some law, whether real or imaginary, they must summon a policeman to execute an arrest. In other words, despite the fancy badge and uniform, TSA personnel are AGENTS, not OFFICERS.

The head of the TSA is called Janet Incompetano for good reason. She runs the TSA like a butch frat house. Come next January, we can only hope she'll be retired to live on her fat government pension and, if she ever flies commercial, will get a taste of what it's like to be treated as a lowly plebe by her former underlings.

msmoto said:So, I pull out the Olympus 1030SW, hold it up and all of a sudden three Port Authority workers start running toward me, yelling, using profanity, describing me in various derogatory terms. I was so surprised I apologized and as I had not taken any photos, I explained I was waiting for my son. They continued stating I was so stupid and "should have known" no photos as there were no signs anywhere. They then said to get out of there. The three stooges then retreated as I rode off to wait up the road.

I think I've mentioned this story before, but one time I was yelled at by DHS for taking photos with my D7000 and 70-200 on a bridge over the Delaware River. I was taking photos of birds on the bridge, like this:

The bridge carries a state highway, NJ 179, from Lambertville, NJ into New Hope, PA. Both towns are very heavily visited destinations for shopping, eating, arts, etc. Thousands of people must take photos on the bridge / of the bridge every year. Go to wikipedia and there are photos and information covering all details of the bridge. However, I have a noticeable camera so I must be up to no good!

So of course I must have known I was doing wrong, right? Here are the signs on approach to the bridge:
Bridge | Weight Limit 4 Tons | Weight Limit Strictly Enforced
Motor Vehicles Only | Horses Not Permitted On Bridge
Bridge May Be Slippery
Delaware River
Weight Limit 4 Tons
Speed Limit 15
Bicycles Prohibited | Walk Bicycles On Sidewalk

Maybe my camera looked like a bicycle?

...

Okay I guess to be fair and play against myself, here's a positive example of security (in this case, local police) interaction. One night me and one of my friends went to an empty playground to play around long exposures. We were putting lights on a carousel and spinning it to get interesting light trails. Someone living across the street called the police on us. When they pulled up and I identified what was happening, I made contact with them, explained what we were doing, and showed them the images we were getting. They were understanding, and were relieved that there wasn't any actual trouble to deal with.

Just a note for all.... let's try to keep all the comments here focused on our own experiences, less on the political aspects. It is easy to get off topic, but NRF is not for the discussion of politics...

Gitzo: Janet Napolitano is the United States Secretary of Homeland Security. Don't know what planet your from but labeling and name calling shows you haven't grown up.

Why is the T.S.A. such a disaster ? It's really very simple, IMHO; just take a good look at any highly successful organization, from the military, to big corporations ; the very successful ones ALL have one thing in common.......great leadership; now, take a very close look at the T.S.A.'s "top" .............( I'm searching for a word to describe Queen Janet Napolitano that won't "offend" everyone on the forum, but I can't think of any "non-offensive" words that would have a chance of accurately describing this "woman"; ( and with that, I have just offended ladies everywhere, referring to her as a "woman"!) About the kindest thing I can I can think of to say about the former Governor, is the fact that I can think of a few female bureaucrats in government at the moment who are even WORSE than she is.

I don't suppose this is a good place to get into politics, but if you want to have any chance of understanding what the big problems with the T.S.A. are, it's impossible to do it, without getting into politics.

Thinking back to "pre 9-11-2001", security in commercial aviation was a complete Joke; if you think the individuals working for the T.S.A. are bad now, you should look at a few "employees" of such outfits as "Wakenhut"; very few of their people even spoke English, and 90% of the minority that did, spoke it as a "newly learned, second language". In "those days", the average airport security "screener's" big "goal", was to get a "better paying" job.......at Burger King or Mac Donald's ! (Fortunately, I had very little need to fly very often back then.)

When the disaster in NYC happened on 9-11, and Geo. Bush's administration started the T.S.A., I was "ecstatic" ! Former Pa. Governor, Tom Ridge is a great guy, but he was "less than thrilled" with his appointment to head up the T.S.A. It will always be my opinion that when Tom Ridge stepped down, and Bush named Michael Chertoff as his successor, the T.S.A. had it's best chance ever, to become a viable organization. ( Mike Chertoff is one very sharp, and very dedicated guy. ) But when our new "pretender-in-cheif" "took over", and appointed J.N., it's been all "down hill" ever since. ( But as bad as she is, she's still not even the worst "high level" appointee that the Obummer has made.

I had a very "unique" opportunity about 4 or 5 years ago, to get a very close-up "peek" at some of the people of T.S.A. We have a very close family member who was at the time, the Assistant Station Manager of a very successful airline, at Sky Harbor Airport in Phoenix; then, when a bunch of rich Florida businessmen built the first new international airport in the U.S. in thirty years, my "friend" was promoted to become the first Station Manager for his company at the new terminal, at the new N.W. Florida Beaches Int. Airport. When we drove down to Panama City Beach to attend the Grand Opening, I had the rare opportunity (for me at least), to "hang out" all day at the brand new terminal, on the last day before the place was opened to the public.

The T.S.A. had transferred a bunch of people to Panama City to staff the new airport, and I had the "once-in-a lifetime" chance to take pictures any place and every place, ( with my very own mid-level airline management "boss" as my personal "guide" ) On the day before the grand opening, the T.S.A. people, (and the H.L.S. people) were just as "disorganized" as everyone else was, and the construction workers were literally still putting the place together ! ( I inadvertently had a "minor brush" with a female H.L S. "babe", with a great big Glock on her hip, while I was wandering around, shooting pictures on the flight line, and I had gotten some 50 feet or so, from "Charlie", my personal guide, (who had the necessary I.D. tags around his neck), and I was supposed to stay within "very close proximity" to my "guide", "at all times" ! After she got her "kicks" rousting me, (and I smiled, and acted properly "impressed" with her "authority", the whole thing "blew over",as quickly as it started; Government people, (especially the one's who have Glocks on their hips), "require" lot's of "deference"! (at which I'm fairly good, when it becomes necessary) My point here is, if and when you become "involved" with "authority figures", (such as T.S.A. and Home land Security "types", the ONLY way to come out on top, is to "go overboard" with the "yes sirs" and "no sirs", and just go "on and on. about how "important THEY are, and how "insignificant" YOU are, and if you do it properly, after a time, they will get so "fed up" with all of the B.S., that they'll invent a way to get you out of their hair !

While I was talking with some T.S.A. guys, I "pointed out"........"you know, if you should ever have any "problems" with terrorists, I can guarantee you that it WON"T be today"; when they heard that, one guy said......"how the hell are you so sure of that"? I said, "it's simple; the only thing terrorists are interested in, is blowing up airplanes, and shooting "civilians"........so right now, that brand new 10,000 ft runway has never had a single plane land or take off on it, so there are NO airplanes here, YET, also, there are NO "civilians", and until tomorrow, there won't be any TV cameras or news reporters, running around taking pictures, and terrorists don't "do anything" unless they're on TV ! ( I just wish I could I could have gotten a shot of those guys faces when I "announced" my theory !

So.....is there any likelihood of getting any "relief" from the T.S.A. any time soon ? I'd say, probably not; ( but if you lean to "live" with the "problem", it reduces it to a manageable level !)

TTJ--great stuff. And thanks for the clarification.

When I said packed away I meant in my carry-on camera bag. I never put gear in luggage proper.

I'm not expecting too much grief as I am just connecting planes. I actually pre-clear US customs in my own country (Canada) on the way down so I always, in theory, have the option of walking away. (It's coming back that's the nervous bit.)

I inadvertently forgot about a multi tool in a bag that I hadn't normally used in probably 4 years. Going through TSA they saw it on the x-ray, asked me, which I had no clue. They then handled it with gloves like it was radioactive. I just told them to "Keep it or toss it" and that I had even forgotten it was lost and it had to be in there for years.

After 2 hours of interviews (with the dumbest questions imaginable) they finally asked me to open it - it was rusted and seized shut. They tried to use two pair of pliers to open it and it didn't budge. They finally got it open with a hammer and a small pry bar. The blade was so rusty it was rounded on the sharp edge. It was at that time the head honcho of the TSA at that airport came in - said "You have to gotta be shitting me?", scolded the agents, apologized, authorized me and set up my travel on the next flight out for free. He was trained, etc. The idiots were not. I didn't have a deadline that day so it was rather amusing watching it all. The memory's image is more of a cartoon at this point.

shawnino said:
TTJ: Are those death counts (heart attack, stroke etc.) annual? I want to check before I go spouting them off to all and sundry elsewhere.

Those are annual USA deaths.

Note on traveling with your gear - I would not pack it but rather carry it on. Luggage get's lost all the time or gets delayed. If you want your gear, carry it with you. Just don't take it out and take pictures of the TSA or any security. It is best not to take any photo gear out in an airport. Cell phone, tablets or laptops are fine.

If I can, I keep a 3 sets of images when I travel. One on an external HD (1 in my suitcase) and the 2nd & 3rd being on the cards and/or on my laptop (if I can.) I try to upload the photos as well but that will end with the D800 files being so large.

My dad was flying home from Texas not too long ago and was whisked away into some kind of questioning room after sending his carry-on through the x-ray scanner. They kept asking him what he had in his carry on, and he patiently responded each time with everything he could remember. "But what else!?" they kept asking. He explained that he couldn't tell them something that he couldn't remember and offered to open it to show them there was nothing dangerous inside, but that just made them more suspicious.

Four hours (and a missed flight) later, they finally let him go. I think if you knew my dad this would be even more funny (and sad). He is one of the least suspicious people I know.

Yes, 9/11 did exactly what they were trying to do, TTJ. 19 idiots can make us spend disgusting amounts of money to improve "security." Almost makes me want to become a libertarian.

You get your point across well.

TTJ: Are those death counts (heart attack, stroke etc.) annual? I want to check before I go spouting them off to all and sundry elsewhere.

Maybe I've got nothing to worry about but I'm traveling through US aeroports to and from Antarctica soon. I'm going to have my gear packed away when traveling so as to not invite extra attention. I assume it'll be opened and checked *sigh*, but if I actually lose images I am going to go ballistic.

I am shocked at how little TSA agents are educated, trained, and paid. I don't think border guards in my country are all university-educated either, and they're not getting rich, but it's a comfortable living and they're held to a moderately high standard of behaviour. I had the misfortune of having my carry-on stolen once (passport inside, yes, my fault) and I had to do three interviews on landing but was treated with courtesy and respect.

msmoto, LOL I rode my BMW motorcycle(yup after my rode trip to Nova Scotia) through a US Custom check point in Maine in 1998 and I never even took out my Passport from my jacket. Once one of the other riders presented a valid one the other 6 riders got waved through. The good old days.
----
TTJ Thanks for the interesting info, yes you are correct it's ultimately about the contract$.

TTJ...idiotic...but funny. I bet this was produced by the grandfather of the TSA folks I ran into. "When the flash comes" what a great line...should be followed by "you are dead"

OK, the story.. 2008..my son and I were entering the US at the POE in Portland, Maine after having ridden up to Nova scotia on our motorcycles. I came through and was sitting on my BMW about 75 feet past the POE on a public street with no signs or anything which would suggest photography was not allowed. So, I pull out the Olympus 1030SW, hold it up and all of a sudden three Port Authority workers start running toward me, yelling, using profanity, describing me in various derogatory terms. I was so surprised I apologized and as I had not taken any photos, I explained I was waiting for my son. They continued stating I was so stupid and "should have known" no photos as there were no signs anywhere. They then said to get out of there. The three stooges then retreated as I rode off to wait up the road.

Now, what I think has happened is the training and education of these folks is inadequate for the job. And the Portland area is hypersensitive about the issue of security as this is where all the terrorists boarded the planes to get through security and ultimately crashed planes into the Twin Towers, The Pentagon, and in a field in Pennsylvania.

It is always an issue when an employee of any organization allows their emotions to interfere with the job and be critical and personally inappropriate. But, most often, this is a manifestation of the managerial structure and not necessarily the individual employee. To discuss the psychological basis for all of this is not in the scope of the forum. If anyone has questions, PM me.

We forget the goal was to make the US spend trillions of dollars to fight 100s of people.

It reminds me of the idiotic "Duck & Cover" drills. That was supposed to make people feel safer as well.

Fast forward to 2:04
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKqXu-5jw60&feature=player_detailpage#t=123s

Humans can be so fickle at times.

Well said TJ,and that's the reason that I refuse to fly.I will not be treated like a potential terrorist in my own country.When interviewed most people will say that they don't like jumping through hoops,but it's the price we have pay to remain safe.

My opinion is that potential terrorists are celebrating just as mightily by our willingness to relinquish freedoms out of fear ,as they are by actually perpetrating a terrorist deed.

shawnino said:
@msmoto: I would like to read your story about the TSA. Without being disagreeable, I'd like to politely disagree with you when you say it's not necessarily the individual TSA agent's fault. Your constitution and specifically your Bill of Rights is one of the greatest things about your country...

Shawnio - with that statement you just showed you know more about our country's bill of rights than 99% of TSA agents.

Funduro said:
Sure there will be over reaction by one or two TSA employees hey that's that.

Sorry Funduro but literally 1,000s are dismissed every year for "harassment of travelers." These are not limited instances at all. And No I am not "anti-government" either. I watched this happen 2-4 times a week for years.

After flying non-stop for 4 years and living next door to a TSA agent/supervisor for 2 where I spent too much time around off duty agents, some things became very evident:

1. Most Road workers make more money than TSA agents.
2. You do not need an education to become a TSA agent - just a GED.
3. Most work to eat. None do the job due to a "Patriotic" duty.
4. Some odd reason, almost all of them worked at Office Depot at one time.
5. Very few ever had a position of authority, or any security training prior to TSA.
6. Many have an inferiority complex.

I'm sure there are a few good workers out there but as a group I found them to be one of the most incompetent people in a position to make life hell for so many. And I feel it is a waste of money. It has very little to due with safety, and more to do with government contracts. We now spend $8.1 billion/yr on TSA with $184 million of equipment just sitting in warehouses.

Tragically 2,977 died on 9/11

In comparison though - Number of deaths for leading causes of death:
Heart disease: 599,413 : Cancer: 567,628 : Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 137,353 : Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 128,842 : Accidents (unintentional injuries): 118,021 : Alzheimer's disease: 79,003 : Diabetes: 68,705 : Influenza and Pneumonia: 53,692 : Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 48,935 : Intentional self-harm (suicide): 36,909

I just wonder what good $8.1 billion per year would do if it was focused on research and help for those who die due to any number of causes.

Historical perspective: Interestingly 2,402 were killed in the Pearl Harbor attacks.
WWII US military death total: 418,500 : Iraq US military death total: 4,486 : Afghanistan US military death total: 1,951

Want to read how much is being wasted?
http://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/5-9-2012-Joint-TSA-Staff-Report-FINAL.pdf

Sorry for the rant but I can't stand to watch idiots continue to trample on people's rights. I don't know how many hours I stood in lines watching people get their luggage ripped apart, attractive women get pat down and then watch TSA agents giggle as they walked away, watch them single out people who were late and then laugh as it was an inside joke to make them miss their plane and yes, watch them take digital cards from cameras... I could go on for hours with 100's of stories. I know this is not the TSA's official stance etc, but it is the group of people they hire who do this. And then they get promoted, and promoted to the point now, guess who is running most of the agency - the idiots from 10 years ago.

I suppose in my own way, this is how I fight back - with sharing facts with others.

shawnino said:
There ought to be, in my mind, an even greater burden of professionalism placed on law enforcement than there is placed on ordinary people.

that wouldn't work because people don't want to pay more money a better workforce. i suppose they could raise the barrier to entry, but the larger the organization the harder it is to get quality over quantity, especially when quantity is a necessity.

it would be nice if every employee everywhere worked to the ideals of a company(professionalism, productivity, service etc). we can only dream.

50 years ago in the USA, certain students needed the help of Federal troops to enroll in several southern states public Universities. Talk about a rights been trampled. TSA pre-boarding checks are GOOD for the flying public and our nations economic good. Sure there will be over reaction by one or two TSA employees hey that's that. Maybe this incident was calculated to test the reaction of the TSA personnel on duty, there are TinFoil anti- government types that will complain about anything including Stop signs.

Rapid fire:

@jonnyapple: agreed.

@spraynpray& Geoff_K: very nice. Thank you. My D90 thanks you. I expect my D800E will thank you.

@msmoto: I would like to read your story about the TSA. Without being disagreeable, I'd like to politely disagree with you when you say it's not necessarily the individual TSA agent's fault. Your constitution and specifically your Bill of Rights is one of the greatest things about your country--but it only works if individuals uphold it. In my opinion, TSA employees have an ever greater duty to uphold civil liberties than do ordinary citizens, and even less of a shield to say "oh well, that's the way the System is". There ought to be, in my mind, an even greater burden of professionalism placed on law enforcement than there is placed on ordinary people.

Cool beans spraynpray. I looked and the D90 will also do this. Unless they are watching the image count, it will skip past photos you mark, though it would take a moment to make it happen on a D90 and one probably will not have time

I was going to tell a story about the TSA, but just think it is important to understand many of them have been given authority beyond their ability. And it is not necessarily the individual's fault. It is a government reaction which comes from fear, not necessarily an intelligent choice. And, as many do not understand the photographers' position, we suffer.