Awhile back DigitalRev did a vid about bad glass on a good body vs good glass on a bad body. Short verdict was good glass always wins.

I would tend to agree.

I would also add, GOOD LIGHT and good glass can produce fantastic results even on the older, less capable bodies. A decent lens and the right light with even a lowly body like a D40 can make some stunning images.

tcole1983 said:
Hmmm my ratio of lens money to body money at this point is about 10:1 and if I ever upgrade my body will be around 4:1...so sticking with lenses here. Now you still have to keep up with the lately technology I think. Several generation newer bodies can do wonder for picture quality from what I have seen, but at the same time putting junky glass on an expensive body seems like a moot point also.

But now for years to come I can still use my glass I have invested in already...and my body is already out of date and needs (or I want to) upgrading.

I am with you as far as my own personal purchases go, tcole.

Only problem for me, is that my money doesn't go as far as my eyes tell me it needs to ;-)

Hmmm my ratio of lens money to body money at this point is about 10:1 and if I ever upgrade my body will be around 4:1...so sticking with lenses here. Now you still have to keep up with the lately technology I think. Several generation newer bodies can do wonder for picture quality from what I have seen, but at the same time putting junky glass on an expensive body seems like a moot point also.

But now for years to come I can still use my glass I have invested in already...and my body is already out of date and needs (or I want to) upgrading.

AA is indeed famous for his landscapes but early in his career, he could not support his family, solely with his creative work. Like many "creative " photographers he did "commercial" photography and like most commercial photographers, he took whatever work he could get and that included portraiture, see Ansel Adams an Autobiography

sevencrossing said:
Do look up his portaits of Albert Bender, Georgia O'Keeffe & Orville Cox, Robinson Jeffers, Mary Austin, Beaumont Newhall, Cedric Wright, Alfred Stieglitz and Edward Weston

Yes, I have mispoken....what I meant to say, was, his landscapes generally did not include people....and I believe this was quite intentional in sharing the scene as he saw it. It was to my understanding, the importance in his work was on the natural resources in the landscapes and the portraits he did snap were of far less importance. This is only my understanding and I could be in error here as well. But my knowledge is based on discussions from years ago..

Thanks sevencrossing..

msmoto said:
Probably important to understand, Ansel Adams lived in a time which was technologically limited. ........ he made little attempt to photograph people.......Just a few thoughts to encourage more comments :-)

Do look up his portaits of Albert Bender, Georgia O'Keeffe & Orville Cox, Robinson Jeffers, Mary Austin, Beaumont Newhall, Cedric Wright, Alfred Stieglitz and Edward Weston

Probably important to understand, Ansel Adams lived in a time which was technologically limited. No digital, no computers capable of what we can do today, and most important, his passion was the landscape. While his images are the highest form of photographic art, he made little attempt to photograph people.

If one is a "paparazzi" and is interested in recording life, then the camera's capabilities become very important. The high ISO, rapid frame rates, rapid interchangeability of lenses, and portability of the camera body are in some cases critical. So, in one senses asking which is more important is like asking which is more important in the car...the engine or the transmission....

Just a few thoughts to encourage more comments :-)

For me? I believe in lenses. Fast glass.

I took a note from reading about Ansel Adams some years back and it made sense to me. He said, all other things being equal, the lens is the most important. If it does not get through the glass, you'll never see it on the image.

As an example, I bought the Nikon 70-200mm ED VR II f/2.8 early in 2012. Fast glass. In the middle of shooting a season of local baseball, I could suddenly see very detailed fine dust/dirt particles in my images just as my eye did as the players moved or from the catchers glove. Others were just as amazed at the 'new' images.

Before that I was using an f/4.5 Nikon zoom/tele. Both good lenses, but the VR II f2/8 internal zoom was better from all my reading and seeing it could be f/2.8 through its focal range was something to be said.

I've the same experience with my Micro Nikkor 60mm and two other very good lenses.

Fast glass rules for me as I love hearing people's breath being taken in at the sight of my pictures. :-) It just makes a good camera better.

I'll get a new body in 2013. My investments in glass that I have made will only improve even more then.

You know what?

Working at a uni myself, this year, we started to use the Journo and art students to do more assignment work than ever before. It gives them much more 'real-world' experience as the student newspaper has deadlines four days a week as do the TV and radio stations every single day.

Almost none of the kids we have on our 'assignment list' use Nikon! This is good news for me as the line we had last year for the fast glass doesn't exist this year :) We have one outstanding girl that uses a Sony she is really good at capturing emotion and action - like in union meetings when people are shouting and waving hands and stuff.

A good camera maker like Nikon, will have lenses that will work with several generations of camera bodies. With only a 2 to 4 year life cycle for the bodies now that reinforces the value of good glass that doesn't cost quite so much in the long run.

If you're taking at least one photography class, you can have your equipment costs included in student loans. If you haven't maxed out your subsidized student loan amount, that's a great option to buy now and pay when you're actually making money. However, it wouldn't make sense to use unsubsidized student loans for that purpose, as the interest would make the equipment cost much more by the time you graduate.

File your FAFSA then talk to the financial aid department at your school.

I'd also recommend students talk to the marketing/PR people at whatever college or university they attend and ask if they're looking for a student photographer. Most schools hire student to cover events for them (and if you can write in AP style, all the better). They'll probably have equipment for you to use that you might not be able to afford on your own. Even if they don't though, it's an invaluable resume and portfolio building opportunity.

At a larger university, each area of campus might have its own PR/marketing people, so you can ask around in each area. At a smaller college, those functions will probably be centralized in one department. Regardless, make sure to bring a portfolio and resume whenever you ask about jobs. I work for the Marketing Communications department at a small college, and we are always on the lookout for talented student workers, but I'm also often surprised by just how little they know about how to find a job.

As for the original question, lenses won't only last longer, I think they will have more effect on the images you create than bodies; however, that can also depend on what type of shots you want. I shoot a lot of events for work with my personal (and hopefully soon-to-be replaced) D5000, which I bought as a starter so I could afford good glass. My more experienced coworker shoots with the office D300s, which he invariably pairs with a slow lens and a good flash. I won't deny his studio portraiture is better than mine, but my event and sports images are better than his because I've built a collection of f/1.4 primes and f/2.8 zooms over the last couple years.

kyoshinikon said:
Lenses... and as to $10 a day, every student can do without 3 Starbucks fraps...

I support my camera and violin hardware requirements on $60.00 a week. In one year you have a D800, in two years you have a D4. in 8 months you have a 24-70 mm, etc. It is a lot easier now than it used to be, because there is no need to buy film!

jonnyapple said:
2 packs of ramen noodles: $0.40. That's what I'm talking about, shade.

Do you know that when I was a college student 35 years ago ramen was about the same price as it is today? But a Nikon F2 with an 50 mm lens was about $500, which was almost as much as my annual tuition. I still have (and use) the camera and 50 mm lens. To buy a new 50 mm manual focus lens would be $400.00.

My thought is to buy the best FX lenses you can get, and go with a cheaper DX body for now, as you will always be able to, and want to, buy better bodies in the future, and as others have said, your lenses will wait for you.

And don't eat too much Ramen: it has way too much sodium!

Yep Lenses have it, and they don't depreciate like camera bodies

I have a backpack form Lowe that I carry everything in but I'm looking for a smaller bag for the below items. It needs to have a wide shoulder strap for comfort and a handle as well. I also like canvas bags.

1. D200(3), 18-200 on the camera body (3), 11-16 (3), room for batteries 2, extra CF cards, Polarizing filter and ND filters.
2. No
3. Netbook or iPad
4. Yes
5. Big pockets to separate lenses and small pockets for batteries etc.
6. 40-50
7. 4
8. 5
9. 5

Post your drawings!

1) D3s, 14-24, 24-70, 70-200, Lastolite tri grip reflector, SB900 with pocket wizard attached, light weight tripod and spare CF cards and batteries. I would consider all these items essential if going on the mystery shoot you propose. (you don't say whether 1 or 3 is more or less likely).
2) No
3) Yes
4) Yes
5) Smaller
6) As I'm 40 I choose the 30-40 age bracket!!! :-)
7) depends on question 4, but rain protection is very important.
8) very
9) very
As others have said, be sure to come back to your "design team" if your product goes to market. We expect a discount! :-)

I just want to clarify my answers in my thoughts based on a "mystery shoot" (1= have on me at all times, 2= probably carry but not always, 3= only if I am feeling froggy that day). I have other equipment but nothing that I would want to carry for 6 hr in a messanger style bag.

1. D700 (1), 16-35VR (1), 50 1.4D (1), 70-200VRII (1), SB-700 (2), 16 2.8 fisheye (2), 1.7 TC (2), 200 micro (3), 24 PC-E (3) -this is in order of importance except for the feeling froggy items, that could vary depending on mood. (Note: this is all Nikon equipment)
2. No
3. I would carry an Asus EEE Slate, probably closer to 13" laptop than an Ipad
4. I would hope the outside is water resistant, but don't worry about the inside too much
5. Big pockets, maybe have an organizer that you could insert if you needed small pockets
6. 30-40

The remaining questions I will answer with 5 being most important and zero the least important
7. 3 this could vary with my answer to question #4, if not water resistant then a 4
8. 5
9. 3 unless you have to close the bag to move it so nothing falls out, then I would have to rate this a 5

1. D5000 with 18-200 (3), 105 VR (3), 12-24 (2), 35 (1), SB400 (2)
2. No
3. Neither, don't own one atm
4. No
5. Mix of both. I like pockets large enough for my bigger lenses so I don't have to stuff them in, but I don't want stuff sliding and banging together.
6. 20-30
7. 3
8. 5
9. 5

1. D90 w/grip or D4, 50mm f/1.4, 16-35mmVR , 24-120mmVR, 70-200mmVR, teleconverters 1.4x and 2.0x, SB800 flash, all would be taken on a "mystery shoot" and a Manfrotto tripod w/small head.
2. No
3. 17" Macbook Pro... do not have an iPad (may be the only person in the world in this shape)
4. Needs to be water-resistant
5. Big pockets
6. I love this... 50+++
7. 5 Must have rain cover
8. 3 I will usually have a camera on and ready at all times. Changes can be anticipated and made slowly and not in a hurry. Old people just do not move fast.
9. 3 The security of the closure is more important than the ease of getting it open.

Hope all this helps... And the water bottle holder on the outside.... yes, a lot of work is done in Hell where we need lots of water. Actually 140 degrees F was the hottest I worked in. In reality, I would not play the "mystery shoot" game. Unless a client wanted to sit and chat about what they wanted I would suggest they find another individual to work with.

Ms. Tommie Lauer

1. Nikon D700 w MB-D10 grip (1), Panasonic GF2 w/14mm F2.5 attached (2), Nikon 24-70mm F2.8 (1), Nikon AF-S 50mm F1.8G (2), Nikon AF-S 300mm F4D (2), TC14E 1.4x (2), SB-800 (3), Filters (1), Spare battery (1), Cable Release (1), At least two spare CF cards (1)
2. No
3. iPad/Tablet at the most
4. Yes
5. Mix, some big, some small
6. 20-30
7. 5
8. 5
9. 4

I'm also in favour of a water bottle holder, and put it somewhere that can be accessed without taking the bag off!

I really like the water bottle idea spraynpray. I always put a bottle in the front pouch (or the empty lens slot). Great idea :D

1. D90 with battery grip (3), 10-24(3), 50 (3), 18-105 (3), 70-300(3), flash - SB400 (3), gray card, filters, manual, lens blower, cloth, remote release.
2. No
3. Yes
4. Yes - exterior should be rain-proof (covered zips)
5. Mixture of sizes for accessories from filters up to water bottle for long days.
6. 50+
7. 5 if Q4 not possible. Rain proof exterior preferable.
8. 5
9. 5

Please share your finished design with us!

1. D90 with battery grip (3), 10-24(3), 50 (3), 18-105 (3), 70-300(3), flash - SB400 (3), gray card, filters, manual, lens blower, cloth, remote release.
2. No
3. Yes
4. Yes - exterior should be rain-proof (covered zips)
5. Mixture of sizes for accessories up to water bottle for long days.
6. 50+
7. 5 if Q4 not possible. Rain proof exterior preferable.
8. 5
9. 5

Please share your finished design with us!

1. D90 with Grip (3), 24-70mm 2.8 (3), 50mm 1.4G (3), F5 (3), SB-700 (2), SB-600 (2), brick of film (3)

2. No

3. Yes, 15" MacBook Pro

4. No, I would rather the outside of the bag be water resistant

5. A mix of both, big for film and small for all the extras I need

6. 20-30

7. 5

8. 4

9. 5

#1 - My bag that rides with me at work (all over NJ so every day for me is a possible mystery shoot!) contains: D7000 w/ MB-D11, SB-700, 20mm f/2.8, 24mm f/1.4G, DX 35mm f/1.8G, 50mm f/1.8D, and 70-200mm f/2.8 VR1. *sometimes* the 24mm is swapped with a Tokina 12-24mm, but they are almost the exact same dimensions.

#2 - No

#3 - No

#4 - I look for water resistant in anything I get camera-related

#5 - Big pockets - I'd rather take more capacity for given external dimensions than better organization

#6 - 20-30

#7 - 4 if it's just a day pack

#8 - 3

#9 - 3

Given the way I squish all the stuff mentioned in #1 into a small shoulder bag I can't say I find ease of removing stuff the most important thing... if it comes out easy that means I haven't squished the fullest capacity out of the bag yet. :P

Hmm

#1(based on what I already stuff in my bag which is a big tarmac)

D7000/D90 or D200(often both)/N80 10.5mm, 14-24mm, 28-70mm, 80-200mm, 50mm, 18-70mm (leave it out of my smaller bag) Sb900(or Sb700) (I've carried this and a bit more for 12 hrs straight)

#2 Not really

#3 No as I don't own one

#4 Yes absolutely inside(easy to clean as mine fills with dirt)and outside(rain/splash)

#5 A few big pockets (Flash, film, batteries) and a few small (Memory cards, cash & Id)"edit" a pouch or pocket for water

#6 20-30 (may explain how I carry 4 bodies and 4 2.8's)

#7 about a 4

#8 around a 10?

#9 ditto #8

Good luck :D