NIce to see this thread not get overheated. It should be marked down as the first ever mac vs pc debate to have achieved this status :-)

I switched to mac several years ago, previously been completely anti mac thinking it as an over priced 'Barby' computer. Nearly threw it out the window during the first week till I got the hang of the differences!!

On the first page someone commented on the way mac devices 'talk' to each other. This is a big bonus if you are an iphone/ipad user as well. This will become more relevant with the release of the 'mountain lion' update with mac. The devices will look and operate a lot closer. Not everyone likes these changes though, just do a search on reviews for OS Lion.....many compare it as 'Apples Vista'. Personally I like it and look forward to the next upgrade.

That all said and done, Windows 8 seems to be getting plenty of good press so would definitely be worth seeing how the 2 new systems pan out before making any decisions.

jablko said:
In a perfect world, I would be able to buy the hardware I want then put any OS on it I want.

I guess this sums up the argument.

I was going to write some comments, but what's the point. if you see no reason to switch, stay with what you have.

therefore, I will keep my PC and enjoy.

I go back and forth between OSes on a daily basis. My work computer is a Mac Pro, my home desktop is a self-built Win7 machine, my current laptop is a Lenovo w520 with Win7 and Ubuntu installed, my previous laptop was a Macbook Pro. While I'm fine using just about any OS, my order of preference for user interface is:
1. Mac OSX
2. Gnome 3 (it's a Linux desktop)
3. KDE 4 (another Linux desktop)
4. Windows 7

My workflow just feels much more effortless under OSX. It's hard to pin down why in tangible examples, but one does come to mind: the QuickLook feature. It lets you preview an item by pressing the spacebar. It doesn't require launching a separate program (like in Windows), can easily be made full screen, and you can move the the next image by just pressing an arrow key without switching back to the folder. Even if most of your workflow is in Bridge or Lightroom, I think you'll still find QuickLook speeds along everyday tasks--and after you get used to it, it just seems so obvious and simple that it feels like cutting off your fingers using an OS without it.

Finger gestures on a Mac trackpad are also so much smoother and easier than any Windows implementation I've seen. For that matter, two finger scrolling on Linux is a much, much better experience than in Windows, even when you're using the same hardware. I'm often exasperated by how slow and jerky scrolling is in Windows, and the more advanced finger-based shortcuts now used in OSX aren't even available on the other platforms.

As other's have commented, the headaches and lost productivity caused by viruses are pretty much eliminated by moving away from Windows. And while Win7 is much more virus and malware resistant than the nightmare years of XP, it still can't beat OSX or Linux. It's not just that those systems are less popular and therefore less often targeted. The Unix architecture (which OSX and Linux share at their hearts) is just a much more difficult environment for viruses.

I ended up choosing my Lenovo w520 over a new Macbook Pro purely based on hardware. I was tired of highly saturated areas of photos being dithered and blotchy as they are displayed on most laptop panels (including Macbook Pros, which are still only 6 bit displays, albeit good ones), and I wanted a screen that would show the entire RGB gamut. That narrowed down the list to only three laptops, the professional mobile workstations from HP, Dell and Lenovo. In the end, I got the Lenovo. It's got great pixel density (1080p on a 15.4 inch display), two internal hard drives (currently a 256gb SSD for Windows, Ubuntu and programs plus a 1TB drive for all my music, photos, videos and other stored data), a great Nvidia Quadro card, built to military ruggedness standards, and all the ports I could want (USB 3.0, ESATA, ExpressCard slot, etc). All that, and it's not even much heavier than my old Macbook Pro. If I could have gotten that hardware from Apple, I would have happily paid more for it just to get OSX. But I couldn't.

In a perfect world, I would be able to buy the hardware I want then put any OS on it I want. I have put OSX on a PC before, but it's not simple, and you have to worry about every update breaking the delicate network of hacks and workarounds you've made. As I said before, I prefer Linux interfaces to Windows too, but Photoshop and the rest of the Adobe Suite don't officially run under Linux, and even though you can get them working in WINE, there's lots of bugs. So, Linux isn't really an option as my production OS either.

I'm stuck with the OS that works best when paired with the hardware I want, which is Windows. I can live with that. I don't hate Windows, not at all. I just get a little frustrated when I know there are more refined, human-focused interfaces out there. And when Apple gets around to putting a screen with the same quality as an iPad into a laptop, I'll probably move back.

I'm just an amateur photographer but also I run an association which requires a fair amount of computer work, both text and graphics for publications.

I've always had Mac laptops with an extra screen to have the picture/page on the big screen and the tools on the powerbook one. Great arrangement !!!
Since I got my first Mac, a Powerbook 160, centuries ago, I've only had two snags: One superdrive and one graphic card to replace. No virus, user-friendly, speed, everything I ever needed. I run Microsoft Office, Photoshop, InDesign, and a couple more programs to watch videos, and that's it.

I used to work on PC's at work and they drove me mad, really !… Many crashes, files disappearing for no reason, waste of time. I felt relieved going home and switching on my Mac ! :)

You know I'm sticking my nose in this one.

My family had one of the early, early Apples (pre-Mac) when I was growing up. It was clunky. In college I used a PC (an old DEC Rainbow). Then about 20 years ago I bought my first Mac. I wasn't so computer savvy at the time, but became much more so over time. Since that time, working as a freelance writer, I've used only Macs.
Then a year ago I started doing contract work for a large financial services company. Because of security issues and the fact that I work offsite and must access the server via VPN, I have to use one of their PCs. I must say I find Windows, as well as applications that run on both Windows and Mac, to be completely unintuitive. I like the Mac because it works the way I think.
A few years ago I did some consulting work with a college that was building out an MFA program in emergent technologies. The dean was a huge Mac user and liked them because he felt the interface was such that it allowed the technology to disappear, so that the user and the task were able to interact much easier.
I've heard the $$ argument. But I can tell you that the monitor on my PC, after a year, is already flickering while my MacBook Pro is still going strong in year 4 (although I may have to upgrade to get a HD large enough for my photos). I also bought my son a cheapie netbook a couple years ago. Within 14 months I was ready to kick it down the stairs the monitor was so bad. It also took me a month to figure out how to get it to print from my network printer. A Mac takes about 2 minutes.
There was a time when Macs did a better job of handling graphics, but that gap has certainly narrowed. Now it's just about the intuitiveness of the UI.
Call me a fanboy, but that's how I see it.

I'll chime in on this. I run IT (amongst other things) for a company of about 20 people. In my day job, I use both OS's daily.

I can say that for the price, MacBooks are the finest laptops you can buy from a hardware perspective. They are built like tanks, and highly useable on the road. I've yet to find a track-pad as useable as the MacBook's. Even the power cord is thoughtfully designed with its magnetic connection, built in cord wrap, and interchangeable plug for those times you need more length. And of course there is the gorgeous screen. If you actually need to use your laptop in the field, I wouldn't look at any other machine. The OS is a matter of preference in my mind. Using what you know will generally outweigh any productivity gain from a superior OS unless you are a power user, but hardware is hardware, and Apple makes some of the best out there. It's similar to the difference between using a kit zoom, or the 70-200... you can tell the difference in build quality. When I need to run windows, I either remote desktop into my Windows box at work, or I duel boot on my Macbook.

That said, there are good reasons to go PC. With PC's. You have a lot more hardware options with PC's. For instance, I can't buy a Mac that is USB 3.0 compatible, and you can forget about eSATA (don't even mention BlueRay). I'd have to go shell out extra money for a thunderbolt adapter and hope everything works. If you need more than 4GB of RAM, or a bigger hard drive, Apple charges a crazy premium (as do many PC vendors, but again... you have options here). For whatever reason, many people are not comfortable making these upgrades themselves. If you want a laptop with a 19 inch screen (crazy, but my Dad actually has one of these behemoths), you won't get one from Apple. The list goes on. As a Mac user, I've learned to take what Apple gives me and be happy with it, but it leaves my inner tweaker feeling a bit empty inside.

Really it just comes down to 1. What you are willing to spend. 2. What you want to do with your machine, and what you need to hook up to it. & 3. What you feel comfortable using. I believe OS X is objectively better than Windows, but only by the narrowest of margins. If you become aware of which OS you are using, than the Developer failed IMO. Once you get to your App, the OS should be transparent.

I used PC's for 20 years, but after getting hit with yet another virus/malware which blew away my entire hard-drive, despite all the money and time spent on anti-virus efforts, I finally made the switch to MAC 3 years ago. It has performed perfectly and the only major problem I have had was when the hard drive failed after only 2 yrs, but Time Machine had everything backed up almost till the moment it crashed so I lost nothing. Love everything about my MAC better than PC, and the extra price balances out with the savings from not having to continually buy the anti-virus wallet-and-memory hogs. So much more enjoyable to use and the UI is intuitive making for an easy learning curve for your switch.

Mike Gunter said:
Hi,

To the original OP, software that uses both, such as Photoshop CS5 or Photoshop Elements, they are exactly the same.

My best,

Mike

Exactly true Mike. That was part of my point.

Hi,

To the original OP, software that uses both, such as Photoshop CS5 or Photoshop Elements, they are exactly the same.

My best,

Mike

Oh, as for the screens, no argument, but the thing is, nothing at all prevents you from purchasing an apple screen to use with PC hardware.

and one thing many people dont reuly understand is that while Macs are good hardware, they arent great. They dont tend to have the best hard drives. For the price point, you are paying for the following:

Hardware that comes with OS X
A sleek design.
The Apple name.

I have some serious complaints about apples line. (even though i currently own 3 macs, two macbook pros, a mac mini). For one thing: Their MacBook Pro top out at 8GB of ram. Thats a big deal.

The sleekness and "coolness" of the magsafe power cords has a flaw as well, they overheat if used with the extension. This is also a known issue.

I think this is a very good time for a computer consumer. The days when macs couldn't run anything but their software is gone. The days when you had to have a mac to do image editting are gone.

The worst thing about and for macs isn't the macs themselves. Its the "cult of apple". they have been defensive for so long that its a natural state of mind. PC users hate microsoft. They hate dell. They want the companies to compete, they want the best always. Mac users have a tendency to forgive apple. This is the worst thing for them. I want people to take apple to task on what they do wrong, to make better mac products. I want them to take Dell and Intel, and Microsoft to task for what they do wrong as well.

All that said, my next computer might be a mac, and it might be a PC. dont know. I really wish apple did something between a mac mini and a powermac that wasn't an imac. I personally hate the all in one computers.

Ahh, yes, the mac vs pc argument. The war of computer religion that makes nikon vs canon mild in comparison.

Both sides lie to get their product seem like its better.

From my side of things I tend to switch back and forth. I am in my late 30s, yet being a long time geek, have been using computers for just about 30 years now. I'm a computer programmer, a photopgrapher, a big time linux-head. In the early days of Mac, i hated it. Their networking sucked, and their hardware just couldnt keep up with what they wanted to do. I was clearly a PC guy (even if i disliked lots of things about windows). But in those days, Macs had all the good design software. Simply put, if you wanted design, you went mac (assuming you couldnt afford a high end graphics unix workstation).

Now a days, software is pretty much available on both, although PCs still have the market for some corporate work related software (there are still some VPNs that only support PCs unfortunately), and if you want to build it yourself, you are probably going to get better hardware for the same price point on a PC. That said, when you get OS X, you dont have to worry as much about viruses (but that could change as more and more people use Macs). Upgrading PCs piecemail is much easier than doing so on Macs (unless your talking laptops, then you are stuck regardless), but OS X comes with more tools that are better for starting out.

OS X is unix, and you can do a lot with it, but its also a crappy unix. (one of the most insecure ones out there, so if you ever plan to do any webserver hosting or anything like that, dont run OS X, it also has some major flaws, which is ironic that the free unixes out there are better than a billion dollar company's)

PC Laptops do go more than 8GB ram, so if you want to do a lot of ram/cpu editting and use a laptop, you might want a pc, as long as you realize you have to get everything you want yourself.

Personally, I think im going with a PC for my next laptop, but going with a powermac for my next tower.

at this point i really think each side has its pros and cons.

I'm a programmer by trade and use both, as Spy Black mentioned, some of the early iMac G5s had a notoriously bad design and blew up frequently, but that was an exception to the rule. For anything image based, the Macs are generally superior, IMHO. Windows 7 is a big improvement on the PC side, but I generally keep my Macs running well and up to speed at least 2 years beyond my typical PC. The new Intel iMacs with the Core i7 processors are really a great design. The screens are fantastic, the performance is great. You CAN run ANY Windows program on a Mac using VMWARE or PARALLELS or Bootcamp. With the Thunderbolt port, you have access to very fast hard drives and soon other peripherals and external displays. To me, it's really a no-brainer. Macs cost a bit more, but you are getting something that is really built well.

I use both... And prefer the Pc because when it crashes, you can often wait it out. Macs are a bit more dummy-proof and will close anything that it doesn't consider up to speed... Also In pshop working between software there is always that loose pshop screen that doesn't pop up when you go back to pshop...

>>We found macs to be unreliable, we got bunch of blown big screen and burned motherboard (oddly just as soon as the warranty finished).<<

I'm a professional photographic retoucher, and I used to work at an ad agency where the designer's iMacs (the retoucher's would work with G5s) would go up in smoke on a regular basis. Power suppies would overheat. Apple never acknowledged the problem (a very sore point when dealing with Apple products), and would just replace the PS with an identical unit. Not surprisingly, x number of months down the road, the thing would go up in smoke again. We had a rotating roster of iMacs coming in an out of the agency.

The G5s were OK, save for one that had a motherboard failure.

I've been working with Macs since the IICi era, ~1989. I have to say that I really enjoy coming home to my PCs.

We used to be a Mac shop and switched to PCs. We found macs to be unreliable, we got bunch of blown big screen and burned motherboard (oddly just as soon as the warranty finished). When you use the Mac the way it was intended, it is fine I guess but as soon as you want to do things out of the ordinary, things get much harder. Before Windows 7, we could have claimed the MAC OS to be better but no more.

None of the guys here wants to be even close to a Mac. The last one that was using it got so aggravated that he bought a PC with his own money and never asked to be refunded.

My wife is an architect and we have a Mac 27 with I7 here at home because her software is Mac only. However, as soon as she has a chance, she switches to her old laptop for everything else. Me I find the Mac OS very odd and counter intuitive but I like my IPhone, go figure.

I've used macs and pcs all my life, and I use a PC at home for all photo editing. I feel that both platforms can achieve the same results (although, I would admit that I've never done printing before so maybe that's a can of worms I've not yet encountered).

PC hardware, at least in Canada, continues to be cheaper to acquire than Mac hardware, so for me the choice is cost more than anything. I have a recent generation i7 processor ('8 core' architecture), 16GB of RAM, 7 TB of storage and a decent (albeit a gaming) video card) and paid far less than I would have for an equivalent Mac - especially that I ride an upgrade train and sub in new parts when appropriate.

I can make arguments in favor of both platforms, but like Nikon vs. Canon, at the end of the day, I don't think it matters much provided you're achieving the results you need and can work with whoever or whatever systems that are required.

I use both Windows and OS X regularly, although I do my main photo editing in OS X. I use mainly photoshop/bridge for my editting, so I guess to choice is arbitrary. Windows does some things better, and OS X does other things better.

I got a mac a few years back since I found they were more reliable (far fewer crashes, less problems with viruses and spyware) but mainly I found that the UI was faster to do things. In the past couple of years, I've found that OS X has actually been getting a little worse (I dislike the direction Apple seems to be taking with their computer line), while Windows has been steadily improving, so who knows, I might consider switching back in a few years.

No choice is necessary any more. One set of hardware can now run both operating systems. I've used PCs professionally since they came out, but Ive also used lots of other systems, including Linux. Since I require photo and other graphics software and I work with huge files for publishing purposes, I tend to prefer the Mac for stability. Our lab still has more PCs than macs, and our server is Windows Server 2003, truly a great product. I have both Mac OS X and Winows 7 installed on my MacBook Pro, and I can run unix programs in OSX, so I can run any programs on either OS. but I spend a lot less time on computer maintenance with OSX than with windows. It's like being able to put Nikon, Canon, and Leica lenses on one body.

TaoTeJared said:

Performance - Unless you go the big MacPro towers, they are slower than a comparable priced PC. RAM is key and why in the world they limit all their products to 4 or 8gig of ram and beyond me.

This is just utterly untrue (unless you are talking about the Mac Mini). My iMac can take 16GB of RAM (I have 12GB in mine right now). Notebooks generally are limited to 8GBs of RAM. How many PC notebooks can take more than that?

Apple tends to operate on year long product cycles. Who cares if the newest PC is 100Mhz faster? It has no impact on day to day computing. I'd much rather upgrade to the latest CPU/GPU architecture than minor bumps. Nobody has to buy designed for Apple external drives. Things have changed a lot since the PPC days, you might want to do some research before blabbing about stuff you clearly don't understand.

Tao, I completely disagree in some respects. I am a techie. I got a MAC so it would be easier to do the things I want to. OS X is FreeBSD or UNIX derivative. Being a techie I know Linux and UNIX fairly well and MAC OS X lets me actually control the things I want to control. Versus Windows were I have to have either a tweak program or know the registry in and out to get things I want set that way. The GUI in OS X os geared for "everyone". but I have a console that is far more powerful than Windows. Also, I do not have to pay $299.00 for an OS upgrade. :-)

My MBP runs Windows 7 Enterprise 10x faster than the Lenovo X5xx I had. The only reason I even run Windows today is because our ancient IT has not changed to Exchange 2010 yet and Office 2011 for MAC requires it for Exchange services. Otherwise I am stuck with a fancy front end to OWA.

Every program I used for Windows I have for MAC. This was not the case until about the past two years. And they run faster too. Albeit Tao you are 100% correct about hardware. My MBP has the hardware of a similar priced Intel based Windows laptop. But a $300-$1200 Windows laptop just does not compare in hardware.

The one thing I really love about the MACs are they just work. No BSOD, no reboots every few days so I don;t get memory leaks or other performance issues. With todays MAC I would say the opposite is true..If you are a techie that loves to control the OS and all its functions, get a MAC. If you want to just logon and have at it, get Windows.

Later,
Jeff

I'm with sevencrossing - If you have always been a PC user and are thinking of a Mac - you need to spend a solid couple of days or a week with one to know if you should even consider it. A year ago I would have said a Mac would be my next computer - now after switching between them for a year, I'm really on the fence.

Macs are different in ways that my logical PC brain just want's to shoot them whenever I have to troubleshoot them. File structure? There is no logical file structure - at least view-able. The real kicker is for everything to work really well, everything needs to be an Apple product or designed for Apple. With a Mac, you have to have an attitude that you are never going to out-wrangle one or go under the hood. Macs make a lot of things very simple but almost to a fault in that regard. Some Mac users seem to cry BS on that, but if you are not 10-year-user/familiar with them, they can really be frustrating. It is not much different than a long time Mac person trying to use a PC. One thing I have noticed is that they seem to "freeze" more than PCs (and I use Vista) but recover well and very quickly. There is allot of things about them I really, really like and I want to say I will get one, but then some little thing like 10.7 no longer supports an all-in one scanner's software that just binds me up like nothing other. Their lack of legacy support for device software it really poor in comparison to PCs.

That said, if you are not a PC/techie, never want to go under the hood, a Mac may really be your cup of tea and you should take a hard look at one. They really do set-up easy, work well with their automation products, integrate into many websites well and their tech support is really, really good. Most of it is their software and ability to share, network, online integration, etc. Apple has really made some everyday tasks very simple to do and it is a joy to experience.

Performance - Unless you go the big MacPro towers, they are slower than a comparable priced PC. RAM is key and why in the world they limit all their products to 4 or 8gig of ram and beyond me. I prefer mat screens as well so their iMac line for that (and being all in one) makes me stray from them. Much of that is due to their "new model" release cycle is much slower than PCs. They do use premium parts (and new tech like thunderbolt) which help them last longer and if you get them when the new releases come out, they will perform about the same as a PC released at that same time. That is the BIG KEY. When Apple releases a new line it catches up, but PCs will have released 5 "new/updated" products before Apple releases the new model. Like at the moment the iMac is behind PCs looking at the specs which makes it seem not as good as a deal. If you compared it when it was first released, it was more powerful. As long as you can buy one at the New release, it will work about the same as a PC.

Price - PCs are about $300 cheaper if you truly price in the higher end parts Mac use. Do all those high-end parts make a difference? Yes and No, but mostly no when it really comes down to it. The MacBook Pro line is really good and priced very well though. The issue Apple has is that there is a gap in the line up between the Imac and the MacPro when it comes to performance where the newest PC model release generally sit. The second issue is the added price for "designed for apple" external drives etc. that do add up. And that is where and why the debate never ends - at least in my mind.

If Apple released another "cube" like box that could handle 24-36gig of ram - it would sway me back towards them but until then I'm sticking to PCs.

Side note: Intel will start releasing a new processor towards the end of the year that will be the next big jump and by some specs, one that Macs will bennifit from greatly. Who knows when Macs will take advantage of it though.

PC vs. Mac, IMO, is a debate much like Canon vs. Nikon.

I switched from PC to Mac a couple years ago. I was having serious issius with viruses etc. and my ISP, for all their good intentions, could not help me. My PC was hijacked for DDOS attacks. My ISP could not help me. I could not change my ISP (it's a long story, but I live in a condo, and the ISP in our building is a Hobson's Choice). I grew weary constantly trying to mop up virus and trojan issues myself; I'm not a specialist. I needed my computer to run cleanly for my day job. I make my living based on the speed at which I can transfer my work to clients (no, not photography!). I didn't want to switch and learn a new OS, but I bit the bullet. No viruses; no regrets.

Mac is in that sweet spot right now: enough users so that most software has a version for Mac, but too few users to make the group a worthwhile target for trojans, malware, and so forth. Why write malicious code for Mac when you can write malicious code for Windows?

I don't miss the Windows environment, but my wife did, so we bought Parallels to run her Windows software.

I use a PC and have done so for over 20 years

Why? As already mentioned, they are generally cheaper and easily to upgrade

I Can't be bothered to learn a new OS

Macs will not run other, non photographic programs, I need to use

Why do photographers and graphic designers tend to use Macs rather than PC's?

Because, in the early days, programs such as photoshop, did not run very well on the "off the shelf" PC and if you wanted support, most people who could help, used a Mac

IMHO if you already have a Mac or a PC it is not worth changing Operating system.

That said, If I was starting form scratch, I think I would buy a Mac. I love the way Apple products seamlessly "talk" to each other

There is no PC or windows equivalent of the i phone 4, or the new i pad. For the life of me, I cannot understand ice cream sandwiches or what the android OS is all about

I love my iphone and will pick up my new i Pad tomorrow

The 2D graphics performance is better - or was. Not sure if this is true today, but once you gain market share in a certain segment, it sticks until you make a mistake.

This isn't an easy subject to talk about because Macs, as already mentioned, are somewhat different than PCs. Macs are designed for user enjoyment, and to keep things easy for people that are not technologically inclined. PCs are made to get work done, and not much else. In other words, they are boring. That is one of the reason people like Apple products. I have used Macs most of my life, but I also have built my own PCs in the past and I still find that I enjoy using Macs despite supposed cost difference. More on that coming up, because I believe that the idea of Macs costing more to be somewhat missleading.

Why do I like using Macs more? I found over time the PCs I built cost more, because there was always something I wanted to upgrade, or change. With my iMac I don't really have any desire to upgrade because it's a high-quality device already. If I need additional storage, all I have to do is add some external hard drives. If I want to play some Windows games I just boot into Win7 and go from there. I found it to be the best of both worlds.