wiser to just rent some SB 700's or 900's...for your shoot, because they work REALLY well with our Nikon TTL-cameras.

Actually you can change it in even smaller increments than 1/3, I think it's 1/8. I have a very unscientific comparisson between the YN560 and LP160 on my blog: http://rifqisphoto.wordpress.com/2011/10/26/let-there-be-light/. I mostly compare them from a user perspective, not on a technical level.

Cool thanks for the info. Think I'll buy one, and I'll buy LP160 to compare the 2.

You say the 560 can be dropped in 1/3 stops? From the pictures it looks like full stops :/

As far as I know they don't sell the old versions anymore. I guess there might be a couple of them collecting dust somewhere but it was quite long ago since they replaced the old ones so if anything they should be rather rare.

Rifqi, how do you know if they are selling the newer model of the YN560? I got some contacts in the Auto industry that can probably set me up with a source for these flashes at a better price. The problem is, I can't just buy one.

Max, no, shortly after releasing the YN560 they released a second version with the improvements I mentioned. A lot of people complained that the zoom wasn't functioning when the received their units so they addressed that and also replace the plastic hot shoe with a metal one.

I think the YN565 is an even newer one that also has TTL support, no? As you say that one is around the same price as the LP160 but if you want to save money on going all manual I would stick to the YN560 (which also allows you to change the power in smaller increments than a full stop). My guess is that it's pretty much the same flash but without TTL and you can find it for under $70 on ebay, including shipping.

Thanks again Gareth.

Rifqi, are you talking about the new YN565? I like the 565 more and more, as I can change power settings by a 1/3 of a stop. It costs just a touch more than the LP160.

Regarding the quality of the YN560. There were some negative feedback at first but most issues seem to have been addressed with the second version. They replaced a plastic base with a metal one and fixed the issues people were experiencing with the zoom. The build quality is excellent and so far they've performed reliably for me as well. As you say, for the price it's definitely worth giving it a try.

yes, you can use a mini to trigger a plus II.

no, it wont trigger faster than 1/250th.

Thanks for the answers guys. Thanks for the backup Jared, and I agree Mike, that I should consider this for outdoors. This is actually... for outdoor location shooting.

The Pocket Wizard situation isn't a problem, as I already own 4 for my head/power pack strobes. With the optical slaves on top of it, there's no reason for iTTL.

It's more cost effective for me to have 3 SB-80DXs instead of one SB-900. I'm looking to bring my speedlight collection from 2 to 8.

I'll check on the LP160s, they sound too good to be true. Other than that, I've been leaning towards the SB-80dxs. The YN560s sound like the ebay special. How's the quality on it? At the price, it may be worth it just to test it.

Gareth, you bring up a good point about high speed sync. Now from my understanding, I can use a Mini TT1 to set off a Plus II. Would this keep my high speed sync though? I've hardly used my high speed, but it'd be nice to have if I needed it.

-MaxiVisVires

I have watched friends struggle with mixing and matching 3rd party lights especially if one or two throw out pre-flashes like the 900 does. Just like anything they learned to deal with it and bought a set of pocket wizards to control them. The kicker is that they have zero need for radio triggering and could have easily done it with the CLS. With the PWs they spent more on "each flash" than just buying Sb-900s. Most times it's just six of one or a half a dozen of another.

MaxiVisVires said:

I've been considering either going with SB-28 or SB-80 units. The thing is, I don't really use my TTL, and am perfectly fine doing everything in manual. So are the SB-80 units overkill as well? I do care about the optical slave, zoom focus, and digital displays.

You ask a good question though - I have wondered what does happen when you use the D-80/dx,28s, etc. with the Sb900s.

We all understand there is no iTTL - but no one ever says what happens or what you have to do to compensate for it for it to work or if it does.

If someone describe what happens that would be worth reading.

And please not another "this is what iTTL is" or "you're an idiot for not wanting iTTL" comment. If you don't know, seriously... why post something that doesn't answer the question?

Rx4Photo said:
I love reading Mike's comments. They always read like "Rules to Live By." Think I'm soon to buy a SB-700 to pair with my 900.

Hi,

And thank you so much. But the only credit I can take is for growing old.

However, I refuse to accept the idea of aging; that's something else. ;-)

My best,

Mike

I love reading Mike's comments. They always read like "Rules to Live By." Think I'm soon to buy a SB-700 to pair with my 900.

Mike Gunter said:
Hi Max,

Money always matters, but if you're going to use multiple strobes, and you're going to use the CLS at all, you might want to consider using the Nikon speedlights outdoors, too.

In my kit are 3 SB900s and 2 SB800s, a SB600 and a couple of older model speedlights, too, and nearly always use at least one light for every exposure, indoors or out.

While I appreciate the notion of manually adjusting the ratio of light and dispensing with TTL, it's arguably just as easy to use the camera's flash compensation as well as the exposure compensation to set exposure, too.

If your pocketbook can stand it, you can manage this outdoors, too with CLS, within some limits.

Nikon prices their products dearly, but if your market can bear the return, you might consider adding a SB900/SB700 as you can over the fullness of time to a collection of lights to do your work.

My best,

Mike

Mike

you should be a diplomat

Hi Max,

Money always matters, but if you're going to use multiple strobes, and you're going to use the CLS at all, you might want to consider using the Nikon speedlights outdoors, too.

In my kit are 3 SB900s and 2 SB800s, a SB600 and a couple of older model speedlights, too, and nearly always use at least one light for every exposure, indoors or out.

While I appreciate the notion of manually adjusting the ratio of light and dispensing with TTL, it's arguably just as easy to use the camera's flash compensation as well as the exposure compensation to set exposure, too.

If your pocketbook can stand it, you can manage this outdoors, too with CLS, within some limits.

Nikon prices their products dearly, but if your market can bear the return, you might consider adding a SB900/SB700 as you can over the fullness of time to a collection of lights to do your work.

My best,

Mike

Used Norman 200b's

Never tried the four square. looks OK, but i am really interested in the kacey reflector with two speedlights, and my hensel lithium porty when i have less need for portability.

Can you fit 4 flexes in a four square?, if not you might have to use plus II's and lose your high-speed sync, or use a flex/plusII and slave the rest.

as for old nikon flashes, you might need to check what voltage is safe for the pocket wizards. those older flashes are made for film and many have high voltages. the DX ones are good for digital, so maybe four SB-28 DX, pretty powerful and about $80 each on ebay (note; some currently listed are for parts only).

if you have more money the Metz Mecablitz 76 is on ebay right now for $500 (note; is canon mod.)

I also agree the LumoPro and Yungnuo units are the way to go. The Vivitar unit, while not as powerful and missing a fractional power setting, is useful in that it has not only proven itself over time, but has an established accessory range as well. Not bad for $100.

I was in your shoes a year or so back. I started with a SB-400 as a v portable flash and kept it as a travel accessory, added a SB-900 to get power and the control options, then hung around on ebay until I picked up some pocket wizards and eventually two SB-80 DX's that I use in full manual.
The 80's pack plenty of power and are a lot smaller than the SB-900 so they save space when you want to carry the whole kit. I chose them because they were the most recent of the non-CLS kit so although out-of-date, their features and electronics are still relatively new and they give a decent power density.

The inbuilt optical slaves in the SB-80's are excellent and you certainly DON'T need pocket wizards to use them very successfully.

Cheers !

My vote is for the LP160 as well, it being the strobist flash and all that. I've used the 400, 600, 800 and 900, and I feel that they are all a bit overpriced, especially if you don't use the TTL modes (which I don't either), so I ended up buying 3 160's. The LP160 has the same power as an SB-900, but at a third the cost without much compromise in build quality. Add to that the fact the fact that their user interface is actually easier to use than most of the Nikon and Canon flashes (due to not having a TTL system to play around with) and you have a pretty decent flash unit.

In addition to the LP160 I would like to add the YN560. Half the price (less even) and so far they work perfectly. I have 2 LP160 and 2 YN560 and they both have pros and cons. Unfortunately I've never used any of the older Nikon flashes.

I recommend checking out strobist dot com. it's a wealth of knowledge for off camera flashes. if you look in the lighting 101 section the suggest a LumoPro LP160 for $150. I like that site a lot. They pretty much give me too much info to process at once sometimes, but I am a simple person.

Uh, actually, yes, I would say I can do a better job calculating flash exposure... for my needs. The TTL system is great if the subject is moving, say, for wedding shooting. Since my subject won't be moving, I am perfectly suitable to figure out the lighting I want.

And no, my flashes weren't at full power. It was due to the speed I was shooting. Not because I was shooting at 1/16 power. I love my SB-900 units, I don't mind waiting a couple minutes for them to cool down. Not a big deal. The big deal is the price. If I can get 4-5 SB-80DXs for the price of 1 SB-900, I'd have to go for the quantity, since I don't need all the cool bells and whistles of an SB-900.

Sheesh. Anyways, I'd appreciate real help. Unless Nikon Rumors is going to become hostile to people asking for it.

Nikon makes the best flash system for any camera.

bypass the cls system, set the flashes to manual, full power, because you can do a better job calculating flash exposure than the camera & Nikon CLS system.

and then complain the flash is overheating?

ITTL, nah, for wimps, quote" I dont care about TTL"

as sevencrossing said "For a really big bang, try a mixture of potassium perchlorate and aluminium powder."

better yet, 20 lbs of TNT or 2lbs of plastique.

MaxiVisVires said:
I'm going for the most bang for my buck,

For a really big bang, try a mixture of potassium perchlorate and aluminium powder.

A safer alternative, is GE Synchro-Press No. 11 screw-base FLASHBULBS, which can still be bought on e bay

If you need a big bang, just tape several bulbs together, the heat from the one in the flash gun, will trigger the bulbs stuck to it