DaveyJ said:
I do keep checking the D3s and availability at B&H though.

Not an encouraging sign for your wallet, Davey...

I am one of the photographers who does NOT own the D3s but I do feel 12 MP is enough for my uses. The only reason I don't own a D3s is the video quality. I have found subjects that just require movement to mean much at all. I do keep checking the D3s and availability at B&H though.

Oh, sorry for this being my first post; my video links http://www.youtube.com/jkoncepz

@merlewine - Here's a video forum for dslr users, fstoppers.com. Also, in DX mode you have 20min of shooting, at 24x16. I wouldn't shoot more than 5min of footage in a single shot anyways, otherwise I'd switch to DX. The zooming issue you're having is with big lenses, try using something smaller like a 50mm f/1.8, and simply move the camera forward and back form your subject.

"The truth for me seems to be that this new equipment will never live up to pro equipment" - The D3s shoots 1080x720 at 24 fps, and 640x480 (DX) at 24 fps, with ISO, Shutter Speed, Aperture control, not to mention ISO over 100,000 for low light shooting all at now $5000 for the body. It rivals pro equipment, we just need more people shooting with it than the Canon's for tv series etc. This is like a new car, aftermarket parts aren't going to be readily available for it until a year or two later.

I'm with studio on this. I don't think a simple firmware update would fix it, and I have my doubts about the AVCHD on the rumored D3100 anyway since it might increase the cost to license the AVCHD codec from panasonic and sony (I don't actually know if it would). Have you looked into either the NEX-5 or the NEX-VG10 (or whatever it's called)? I have the NEX-5 and an F-mount adapter for it so I can put Nikon lenses on it and it's really a thing of beauty for video. I got the adapter last week, and I need to review it once I've had some more time to play around with it.

ptortora said:
With rumors for the upcoming models leaning towards 1080p 24 fps and the AVCHD video codec , I was curious if anyone had any thoughts on whether or not Nikon could or will update the video on the D3s to those standards via a firmware update. I'm not even sure if that is possible but I'd be interested to read any thoughts on the subject.

Not that I know anything about the D3s, but I would venture to say, probably not. I'm guessing that they use a hard-coded chip to process the M-JPEGs used in the D3s, and that the AVCHD CODEC would require an altogether different hardware encoder. Just a guess.

By the way . . . interesting thread!

With rumors for the upcoming models leaning towards 1080p 24 fps and the AVCHD video codec , I was curious if anyone had any thoughts on whether or not Nikon could or will update the video on the D3s to those standards via a firmware update. I'm not even sure if that is possible but I'd be interested to read any thoughts on the subject.

Well, it's not really that the audio on the D90/D5000 isn't usable, it's more that it isn't usable for a lot of things. I think it's fine for mucking around with ;-) I use it for little video clips of my kids playing all the time and it might even be better than my little camcorder's audio in that there's no whining from the tape drive in the background (the camcorder uses DV tapes).

For people with a D300s or D3s, there's an external mic input like the one Michael said he connected a shotgun mic to. If you want nice audio with the video from the D90 or D5000, you pretty much have to use the onboard audio as just a sync reference and use an external setup to record the final audio. I can borrow a nice mixer and DAT recorder from my dad, but I can't really haul all of that around with me along with my photo gear. Also, the Zoom has got a 1/4"-20 threaded mount on the bottom, so I can stick it on my little velcro tripod (an ultra-pod II) that I sometimes use for off-camera flash and put it wherever I want it. I've already prepared a place in my camera bag for this little guy. Welcome home, Zoom.

same idea with the D5k Jonny?

Just curious, renting one tomorrow and wanted to muck around with the video over xmas break. . .

merlewine said:
I have a Zoom H4n audio recorder and it is great. Uses SD cards and records in either WAV or MP3 formats. With a 16gb or 32gb card you could record almost forever.

Thanks for your recommendation, Michael. I read and watched some reviews since we discussed this and I ordered the Zoom H4n today. I'm thinking of also using it to plug into the sound system at, for example, wedding receptions and have one D90 rolling video (and by rolling I mean rolling shutter ;-) on a tripod while I'm off getting stills with the other. I guess I might have to bribe the DJ with some free pictures he can use for self-promotion in order to get into the sound system.

Yes, with the D90 the auto exposure is atrocious unless you lock the AE—it's menu setting f4 and it needs to be on AE-Lock (hold). That's what safyre was talking about in the fourth point of the post above. That would fix the D300s video, where it looks like it's as bad as the D90 without AE-L (hold). It's probably that more D300s users haven't figured it out yet compared with D90 users if you've seen it on more D300s videos (heaven knows it's buried deep in the manual).
edit: the D3s video in the thread Niko posted could be better because it has less dramatic changes in the light, but I think they actually improved it for the D3s by making the steps smaller. I may be wrong as I don't know anyone with a D3s so I could try it.

Pher the rumored updates will more than likely give the D300S full manual control. Probably not the D90 :^(

I think you're right about the exposure lock. Jonny suggested it as a possible cause on a D3S video sample here:
http://nikonrumors.com/forum/topic.php?id=1003#post-16519

Sam, read the stickie at the top of the D90 section on the link I sent you( The one by Kholi). In short, try playing with your exposure lock.

http://www.cinema5d.com -- is another good site to check out.

Keep your eye on he forums for the rest of December. Nikon started a new division dedicated to firmware a few months ago. There are supposedly new updates coming this month aimed at video. Full manual control has been a long time coming.

Well, maybe part of the issue is that there's not that many D300s videos to choose from
I don't understand why the exposure flickers around quite a lot here: http://www.vimeo.com/7136845
but I suppose maybe the person didn't lock it.
And I almost feel as though the D300s has more Rolling shutter issues than the D90. But maybe the people who uploaded D90 ones fixed it in post.

As I said, I have fallen in love with the feel of the D90 after using a friends one for an hour ;)

Hey pher no one's bashed video on this thread? In fact I don't recall any video DSLR haters in a very long while around here.

We welcome all experience levels

Thanks pher

In my experience gear heads are always the best people to ask for advice.

I've just come off a shoot and all the buzz among professional cinematographers and film crew is around D-SLR cinematography. People are getting very very excited about the possibilities. Most of the chatter is around the Canon 5D MkII and the 7D at the moment. As my family is quite loyal to Nikon, I wanted to follow the tradition.

I think AF would be more of a problem than a solution when shooting video, I like the idea of manual and focus pulling sounds like something I should learn to do anyway.
Thank you for the link to the other forum, I cannot believe my 2 weeks of googling never came up with it.

Then wait a few more weeks until PMA 2010 (Feb). That's when Nikon will maybe have another round of new products. If they don't announce anything new then get the D90. Or if you're not really interested in whatever might get announced and just want the D90 now then have at it.

What is it about the D300S video samples don't you like?

If you really want to get into video I'd recommend the d300s. If you want to capture good sound you'd be spending close to the difference anyway for a solid state recorder that you wouldn't be able to attach to your hotshoe.

You are also asking on the wrong forums. The lot that visits here are mostly gear heads or the family photo variety. You will get a lot of video bashing here.

http://dvxuser.com/V6/forumdisplay.php?f=174

Go here and do some light reading before you decide. You will not be using the AF-On during filming even if you got the d300s - you have to manual focus, so get comfortable with the idea. I'd also recommend you pick up at least one older manual focus lens. There are some tricks for exposure that you can't do w/o them. You're going to have to get good at pulling focus also, or mark your lens and have someone do it for you between shots - the same way it's done for film. You should also tack on the price of a split prism focus screen onto your total price.

You're going to run into the rolling shutter problem. There are some ghetto fixes on that forum or you can try the foundry's plugin for Nuke/After Effects and it works really well.

-chris

I have access to a D3 with a top-of-the-line 105mm, a 14-24mm and a 24-85mm.
It's not mine, but my dads so I can borrow the lenses if need be.

What kind of lenses do you have now? Camera?

Thanks so much for all your advice! I truly appreciate all your input.
Yes, sound would definitely be an issue, for sure.

At the moment, what I'm trying to do is put together a portfolio and to develop my shooting style, and at the same time stock up on cutaway shots, to be used in later projects. (such as establishers, candid street shots, pigeons, dogs, textures, walls, etc) And also to shoot videos for a friend's experimental, minimalist-type music.
I think once I start shooting scripted scenes, or anything that involves more people than just me, I'd look to rent some decent equipment anyway.
I just want something I can carry around with me to get the creative juices flowing.
The main reason I want to switch from camcorder to D-SLR is that the lenses are closer to ones used in cinema and it immediately conveys a whole different story when everything in frame isn't in focus. It's just a whole new ballgame - we can create incredibly professional looking footage as a small price.

Welcome to the forum Samstag77 and sayfre.

Even though the D90 is cheap if you are serious about film making you will still need to invest in the proper set up. Microphones, camera rigs,etc. are all part of the proper film making experience. Just buying the camera will not give you the results you are looking for.

I agree with bmxdad that perhaps the Panasonic GH-1 is a better match for you.
The D90 will be coming up on two years old and ready for replacement by summer 2010 if not sooner.

Thanks, Michael. That sounds great. So, unless I misunderstood you had the shotgun mic plugged directly into the D3s. With the D90 I don't have that option, but the Zoom H4n is a pretty good choice, then? Part of why I'd opt for that is for the expandability.

I have a Zoom H4n audio recorder and it is great. Uses SD cards and records in either WAV or MP3 formats. With a 16gb or 32gb card you could record almost forever.

The Nikon Ds3 has a 1.35mm stereo input jack, and the sound is great, depending on your mic. Here is a video I shot with the D3s in low light, with a 1.35mm to XLR jack to a Sennheiser shotgun mic. It was not even as close as the Neumann mic in the photo and you can hear it worked great.

http://vimeo.com/7997178

Sound is as important as video in making video good, so you want to think about that for sure. I sold a bunch of stuff and am using two D3s cameras to get around the 5-minute barrier, alternating shots. Until the big companies come out with a reasonably-priced camcorder with a FF sensor, interchangeable lenses (Nikon mount for me), and all flash media, I am going to make these Nikons work for video. But I am mainly doing studio interview and infomercial-type videos.