Yes not really too much to get excited about I think even at $300. If you want to treat yourself get a nice M3. Even the MP4 or a good used M6 won't run you too much and you get an awful lot of camera. Throw on a nice 1969 era 50mm Summicron rigid F2 and wow you got quite the setup already. Just be careful the glass from these lenses can be soft so they scratch easily. Lots of junk copies out there. The Voigts and of course Zeiss lenses are wonderful too. Especially the Voigt 15, 21, Zeiss 28, 35 and 50s. The 18 ZM Leica is also unreal. I had to sell mine unfortunately because I went back to Grad school :( Take the plunge! The Leica M is a truely wonderful system. It compliments my Nikon gear perfectly.

Personally I wouldn't get anything less than a M3 or newer and $300 isn't that great of a deal IMO. Some really experience Leica users have told me the pre-war Leica's were not all that great and were not known for the "Leica quality" as later models. CLAs for Leica run from my experience from $200-1000 (depending what is needed or you want done) and take 2-4 weeks if you are not close to an authorized shop.

If you wanted to try the rangefinder experience, for $500 you can get a used Voigtländer and lens, which has a meter, 60-70 years newer, no need for a CLA, and basically get the same experience. You could also go for a Canon RF for about the same or less money as well.

RFs is damn expensive to get into. Most new Voigt lenses are around $500 and $700 for the "ones you want" new. Used, all of them run generally around $450-600. Zeiss RF lenses run $1,000-$1,500 (even used), and Leica doesn't have anything less than $1,800 for their f2.8s and any 1.4s will run you $4k-6k. Used Leica glass will run you at least $1,000-2k for decent pieces and $500+ for beat to hell ones.

I have been dipping my toes in with Bessa R2, Voigltander 35mm f/2.5, Jupiter-8 50mm f2, a really beat up and old Leica 90mm f/4 and a meter and that has set me back close to $800. And that was getting very, very low bids (30-50% lower than usual) on ebay - got the 90mm for $70. Hate the slowness and size of a 35mm, the Jupt aperture moves with the focus, and I need a vice grip to turn the aperture on the 90mm. My advice - don't skimp and get stuff that really works since the nostalgia wears off fast. Plan on $2,000 and get a Voiglt R'x'A body and a one good Zeiss lens.

The voice of sanity as always, Niko. :) I'm probably better off going with something more recent.

Thanks, everyone, for the input.

$300 for a pre-war model isn't really that exciting. That's pretty much the average price for those models. You can find lots of pre-war Leicas for around $150-$200. It just depends on the model. Keep in mind though that these old cameras need a good CLA (Clean,Lube, and Adjustment) and that can run you a good amount of money depending on where you send it. So in my honest opinion I would pass and invest the $300 on something else.

a slight delay said:
or is it like putting a Yugo engine in a Bentley?

It is a bit
But changing lenses, is a lot easier than changing an engine
Before you buy, try and borrow a Leica lens, you know is in perfect condition and run a film through it. Shoot at a wide aperture and check focus
Beware it is not a coverted ZORKI Just do a seach "fake Leica"

Yeah, makes sense. He said he's been trying to sell it for a couple of years now, and everybody balks at the price of lenses. I figure that worse comes to worse, I can get one of the old Canon M-mounts, or even one of those old Russian rangefinder lenses... Don't know. The thought of owning a Leica, just on general principle, is tempting. Part of me would probably be just as happy with a Yashica (I'm not hung up on one brand or another). Either way, if I buy it, I'm using it; it's not going to sit on a shelf somewhere.

I would say buy first and think later, if that makes any sense. I don't think Leica stuff can go down in value.

Besides, you don't need modern lenses with it, you can shoot older, cheaper lenses. But if money is an issue, you better make sure you shoot with it eventually.

Okay, I'm posting this here because I know a handful of you shoot Leica, and I've generally been able to trust the input I've gotten here. I went to an antique shop last week (one of those big places with multiple dealers). One of the dealers had literally dozens of cameras. All his. He's been shooting since the forties; some were cameras he'd used quite a bit, and others were just part of his collection.

Here's my dilemma: the guy's got a prewar Leica body that's in decent shape, but no lens(es) to go with it. He only wants $300 for the body. I know the lenses can go for several times that, but I've also seen third-party options on eBay that have the Leica screw-mount that are more in my price range. Are any of them any good, or is it like putting a Yugo engine in a Bentley? I just bought a D7000, and if I buy this thing, I've got to hold off on a zoom lens for a while, but at that price, it's pretty darned tempting...

Thanks for the input.

Not a bad guess regarding having it go into a Leica maybe the 9.2 I doubt a M10 would be released so soon at least I hope so anyways! The way things are going the D4 specs could be anything there are so many rumors flying around.

NikoDoby said:
Technically LBCAST is a CMOS sensor. So Nikon might have just changed the LBCAST "name" and just called it a CMOS in the D700/D3/S. Although the LBCAST sensor kind of got a band reputation, calling it a CMOS wouldn't be totally wrong.

The D1 and D1H were only 2 megapixels and the D1X was only 5 mp but yeah the next sensors are going to be "big".

Unfortunately Kodak is a dying company so I doubt this sensor will find it's way into any camera.

In 2000 I looked at one of these and the price was $3900.00, and a D3100 is so much better for $6xx.00 ?

how far have we come.

Technically LBCAST is a CMOS sensor. So Nikon might have just changed the LBCAST "name" and just called it a CMOS in the D700/D3/S. Although the LBCAST sensor kind of got a band reputation, calling it a CMOS wouldn't be totally wrong.

The D1 and D1H were only 2 megapixels and the D1X was only 5 mp but yeah the next sensors are going to be "big".

Unfortunately Kodak is a dying company so I doubt this sensor will find it's way into any camera.

Nikon hasn't really went with Kodak since the f5 mutant in the 90's

Leica R10 maybe? (although they stated that they ended the r series)

Maybe if Nikon got LBCAST to work...

I wouldn't be surprised if the D4 had a 24+ mpx camera as their mpx almost doubles in any iteration.

D1h 3mpx D1x 6mpx
D2h 6mpx D2x 12mpx
D3 12mpx D3x 24mpx

So what comes next?

D4(H) 24mpx D4x 48mpx (WOW!)

(edit the d2h was 4mpx)

I'm pretty sure it's for Kodak's new "RED" digital motion picture camera. Using a CCD sensor will eliminate roliing shutter artifacts. I hear they're going to call it "YELLOW."

The key here is "CCD". You won't find any CCDs going into any new Nikon DSLR. With the demise of the D3000, Nikon's DSLR range is now 100% CMOS.

I agree with NSXType-R that the likely destinations could include the successor to the Leica M9. I would also place a small bet on a Pentax "K-1" DSLR using this sensor, as Kodak and Pentax have been in negotiations for some months now. The Pentax 645D uses a Kodak 40 MP sensor so a 29 MP Pentax K series DSLR would not be too surprising.

Probably for the new Leica M9 replacement maybe.

Nikon apparently develops their own sensors now.

Doubt it, I dont think nikon would jump from a 12mp D3s to a 29MP sensor in the D4. Maybe in D4x but doubt that as well since a 24mp D3x is already out i doubt the D4x will be a 5 mp upgrade.

Kodak have announced a new 29MP full frame CCD sensor, I woder if it'll be in the D4 ?...

http://photorumors.com/2010/11/06/new-29mp-full-frame-ccd-sensor-from-kodak/#more-6821

AFAIK it's exactly the same sensor as in d90/d300, at least that what I was told by Leica salesman at Leica Store

Agreed - M9 = Kodak and X1 = Sony (Nikon D300..) The reference to the EVIL system was only to confirm that it was the same sensor by very early Evil reports. It was not to suggest changes to the newer Sony sensors - which have been bouncing around for over a year now. (Early reports were that Nikon passed on the very early versions because of noise issues. 12+months ago.)

As for the D90/300s vs 300 sensors there is definitely a difference. Published specs are the same but comparing my 300 to 300s/&90-s it is different and more than just software. I did catch an article (sorry I do not write them all down - Pop photo I think) that the D300 sensor could not handle the heat produced by video so a new design was put in place.

For my poto-hobby, I really could care less on additional resolution but it will be fun to see what Nikon does with an Evil system. I love available light and I haven't been impressed with the micro 4/3s or what I have seen from the Sony examples. I have a G11 and for the size, build, function and low light capabilities, I have a hard time justifying the need for a similar lens swappable camera. ISO 1600 looks great about 30% of the time which is much better than any other compact I have used and is equal or better to the Pen2 and much better than the GF1(reason:IS/VR). If the Evil system can use existing Nikon lenses they will sell a ton of them, But I am not holding my breath.

The Leica M9 uses a Kodak designed and built sensor. The Leica X1 uses the "same" sensor found on the Nikon D300.

TaoTeJared said:

I have seen a couple of postings that are suggesting that Nikon's new Evil system would be based on the same sensor and those were posted over a year ago.

??? You didn't look carefully because I started an "EVIL" thread a few days ago where we discuss the 14mp Sony NEX sensor showing up on a Nikon. In fact it's been pretty much confirmed that a video capable 14mp & 16mp Sony Sensors are going to be announced soon and I think it's a safe bet that we'll see those sensors in some new Nikon models too.

As for the D90 D300 sensors, if Nikon makes any kind of tweaks (which they say they have) on the D300S sensor then technically they are correct in saying it's not the "same" sensor as the D90 D300. Even though those tweaks are very small and not a drastic change. In fact Nikon can actually say their cameras have Nikon sensors because they "tweak" them and they no longer considered them to be Sony sensors. Even though we know they are.

What I have read from Nikon is that the D90 and D300 sensors are two different sensor units even if the effective pixels are the same. Could be that the D300s and D90 are the same.

I highly doubt that they are the same, but I'm sure they are very similar. What I did find was that the sensor for sure was made by Sony.

I have seen a couple of postings that are suggesting that Nikon's new Evil system would be based on the same sensor and those were posted over a year ago.

Late to the discussion on this, but might it be a Kodak sensor? I know the M series digitals use Kodak sensors.

The Samsung was just announced in January so it's not shipping yet but here's the dpreview preview

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/samsungnx10/

kyoshinikon said:
The D90 was second place :0

Really? Because my french says they liked the NX10 at low ISO (100-800)but the D90 still stands at the top of the podium. They were surprised by the NX10's performance though.

PB PM said:
I don't think the NX10 is shipping, I don't know of any stores in North America that have it yet.

I'm curious as to how the EVF performs.

The D90 was second place :0