Off topic, but this thread is bringing back fading memories. I haven't had a darkroom since the early 80s.

Neg film always had great dynamic range. Over expose underdevelop (pull) you could get great shadow detail and my high lights were alway fine. Shooting digital feels more like slide film. Always worrying about blowing out your highlights.

Diafine is a great 2 step developer. I would shoot tri- X at 800. It has great contrast and nice grain. Makes me want to shoot some B&W, I have one 120 roll of TMX 100 iso just waiting to be shoot...

I would disagree with the 5% thing but digital but I do agree on the ease thing. Film seems to still have a better initial dynamic range than digital at low ISO's. Most the tools in photo shop are either based of analogue processes or older tools.

Still in the darkroom tho :D

As I remember....D76 1:1 for about 80% of standard time at 68° F. With Plus-X, shot at ASA (ISO) 100. Fine grain, full range negative. Prints on contrast grade #3 w/ dodge and burn. Sometimes used #4 paper.

This was with 120 and 35mm film.

Oh, for the good old days...... could not do 5% of what is possible today with digital. Or, at least not with the ease and convenience of today.

OK, OK, kyoshinikon, after reading your post below....maybe about 50% is more accurate, ha, ha, ha....

Look up the times for a 1:1 mix of D-76 @68deg have the room and stopbath and fixer at 68 deg. agitate for 30 sec then tap the tank a couple of times then agitate just a twist every 30 sec. Wash in 68 deg and dry @68 deg. Don't push it. If done right it will give you fantastic results. Treat it like you are doing color processing.

I use to check it with a dark green safelight about 90 seconds from done. That when you would push or pull it if needed.

framer

I love the smell of acetic acid in the morning....

Tri-X 400 iso, D-76 stock solution at 75 degrees for 5 min. It works but grain is fairly course, it worked well when we were making direct screen prints for news paper printing.

There's a group, Analog photography users group (APUG) a Google search will find you the link and there's a lot of info on processing there.

I never reuse diluted developer but the straight stuff is good for a few times (liquid). Powdered developer shouldn't be reused. I also reuse C-41 developer too...

As to reels the plastic ones are a million times better...

If you're using a metal film reel like this;
http://www.adorama.com/images/large/DKR35.jpg

It's gonna take a while to get the hang of loading the film on it correctly. Frankly, I always considered those a complete waste of time and used plastic film reels that grabbed the film and loaded it into the reel for you:
http://www.adorama.com/images/product/DKRP.jpg

These plastic reels make developing life much simpler and easier, and you'll have your film loaded up in no time flat.

As for development, the sky's the limit on techniques how to develop film. Simplest is just to go with the base instructions listed with your developer of choice.

Hi,

I don't even know what chemicals are available...

In the darkrooms I worked and taught in I used a mix of 1:1 D76 and never reused the developer.

Before starting a load - typically there would be 8-16 rolls of 35mm or 4-8 rolls of 120/220 film - I would use a water spritzer to settle dust in the darkroom (which was meticulously clean) - I do recommend that.

Rapping a steel ruler on the tanks is what I did, too, for water bubbles. I had motors to lay the tanks on during processing, and washing tanks - it provides a consistent agitation.

Also, we had heated cabinets for the film, but frequently printed wet.

I don't miss film much.

My best,

Mike

my only advice on this topic is to try numerous types of reel until you find one that works for you.

and don't develop anything you really need until you know you can do a good job.

Someone once said something along the lines of "Forget the decisive moment, the hardest part of photography is getting the damn film on the reel" (I think it was John Szarkowski), and there is a little bit of truth to that, as you have discovered.

My favored method to get the film on the reel is not rewind the film all the way, but to leave a bit of leader sticking out. Then, with the lights on I start winding part of the film onto my reel (I use the Patterson). This way I know that the film is latching on properly and isn't getting folded. I then turn out the lights and wind the rest of the film on. Fogging the film doesn't matter to me since the amount I use already starts out fogged. And besides, I don't like contact printing more than 35 exposures at once so I normally intentionally waste a few frames of the roll (even though I load film in a dark room).

Chemicals are easy- I would suggest getting some powdered D76 and mix it according to directions. If you shoot a few rolls of film a month, you should be able to use a gallon batch (which saves money over the smaller ones) and use it up. As long as you finish it up in 6 months or so, it won't go bad. DO NOT REUSE DEVELOPER. It's cheap, and should only be used once for consistent results. Don't forget to mix it hot, but use it at room temperature.

Stop bath can be reused a lot- just get an indicator stop and toss it when the color changes.

For fixer, get a decent rapid fixer. You can reuse it a certain number of times before you need to dispose of it. If you are just doing film (and no prints) you can mix a small batch (enough for one tank) and reuse it the number of times the bottle says you can before getting rid of it. You may or may not be able to chuck it down the sink (with a LOT of water mixed in) depending on your local environmental laws, otherwise, you should save it and bring it to a disposal facility.

Then you rinse (follow the directions on the fixer), use your photo-flo, and dry it before cutting it up into sleeves for protection.

As mentioned, modern B&W films are very good, and it is quite difficult to screw up if you know what you are dong. Despite what some books and people say, B&W films can handle a lot of variance in temperature, agitation, development times, and even exposure before you really start to ruin your images. If properly fixed and rinsed, B&W negatives should also be able to last indefinitely. That being said, you will have to experiment quite a bit if you are interested in maximizing the quality of your images.

If you are doing this fairly often, I would actually suggest looking around and seeing if there is a darkroom club or a photo-club with a darkroom. Sharing equipment can save you a lot of start-up equipment, and will get you access to good tanks, reels, accurate thermometers, etc, and will really be nice if you make your own prints (which is something you should try at least once).

Of course, what I would really suggest is to take a course. There's a lot of trial and error to learn in the beginning and there are a few simple mistakes that are easy to avoid if you have an experience person looking over your shoulder (I almost forgot to rinse my first roll of film). Barring that, I'd get a hold of some good reference materials: try the Ansel Adams trio (Print, negative (this one especially) and camera), or any one of the many guides to black and white film. Also, I'd suggest asking questions on APUG as there are a lot more B&W (and even color) film shooters there.

How I do it...

1: Shoot roll of film (I use a N80 or n8008... Really hope to get a f5 or f6 when I have more money)

2: go to darkroom (Ie my windowless bathroom with a 15watt safelight)

3: cut out ALL lights (including safe-lights) and load film (plastic reels are easier)

4: close can and turn on lights

5: start water and get it around 68ish (fill up a jug or 2 with it to avoid wasting too much water and if you are really picky use distilled or purafied water)

6: pre-rinse with water for 1-2mins

7: Pour water out and fill with straight Kodak (or Arista) D76 (because I'm cheap)

8: Knock on tank to get rid of bubbles and leave it in for 7 minutes and 30 seconds... (I constantly agitate)

9: Quickly pour back into bottle and get it under running water again (normal people use stop)

10: After 2 mins cut water and fill with fix

11: Close, Tap and agitate (5mins should do the trick)

12: pour out fix and empty out can into a tub (but dont take film off reels)

13: After 10 mins dunk into hypo clear leave for 2 mins and put back in water tub...

14:10 more minutes dip in photo flo, pop of reels, and hang up to dry in a dust free area...

I tend to pull them fully out the film "canister" before reeling because I've snapped film doing it the other way. While dilution is technically cheaper and minimizes grain, the way I do it is fast and you can reuse the developer (35-45 rolls of film on a gallon of D76). I honestly squegee my stuff before I hang it (with clean wet hands between my middle finger and index finger as it shortens drying time and minimizes scratches that you will get doing it with your thumb/index and or a tool with a piece of dirt in it)

If you want to practice go to your local dollar store or gas station and buy a cheapo roll and practice on that in the light (pull spool out, chop leader, slide into notches, ratchet, chop spool off, slide into tank/can close and lock lid)

DutchNikon said:
Alwasy hanlde film with care, especialy when wet, so no wiping at all, in the last rinse i ad "wetting agent" to prevent drying spots, and hang the film from a line using special clamps..

This is just a glimpse of things to tell, books have been written about just this subject ... , the rest is in the experimentation i guess..

omg, that Bjrichus types quick... :-)

Dutch...

Wetting agent - had completely forgotten about that. My dad used to use it when he was still doing this, but I never did... DUST... Absolutely the biggest enemy of all. You raise a great point about never touching wet emulsion. All smeary and scratched if you do :-(

As for typing fast... as with developing film, *PRACTICE* and its the practice that is the fun part... you change one thing and the results change a little, change another and you get very different results from what you thought you might.

mmm That's a lot to explain in a formum post.....

Ok, lets say you are using "True B&W Film" like Ilford Fp4 : Developer, depends on the film type, and the result you want, lik when you need fine grain effect , user MicroPhen, on a 100 - 400 asa film, if you want a course gfrain, push the film to 800-1200 asa, and use Ilford developer and a warmer liquid. etc. etc. the possibilities are endless and require xperience and experiment..
Stop Bad : any will do, just follow the instructions on the cannister... and make sure it has a temp within 3-4 degrees celsius from the used developer ( temp shock can ruin your emulsion...)
Fixer : Mostly just follow instructions on the bottle, on pushed film add 2 min's fixing time, and again : watch the temp. if it's warmer it needs a shorter time.
Rinsing : very important, you need to get rid of the last traces of chemicals, otherwise your emulsion will deteriorate rapidly afterwarts...

I never use coton or cloth gloves, they spread dust , which is your worst enemy, once it gets into a soft emulsion , it will sit there forever...

I open the film canisters ( if they are not reloadable that is) with a special opener, and never pull the film out of the cannister, it can put long scratcheds on your emulsion..
Alwasy hanlde film with care, especialy when wet, so no wiping at all, in the last rinse i ad "wetting agent" to prevent drying spots, and hang the film from a line using special clamps..

This is just a glimpse of things to tell, books have been written about just this subject ... , the rest is in the experimentation i guess..

One last tip, dry practice in daylight and later on in the dark getting your film out of the cannister and onto the spool.... ( FP4 Canisters used to be re-shutable) just use an unexposed film for this. its better to spoil one practising then to spoil your valuebale shots later on....

omg, that Bjrichus types quick... :-)

Dean Taylor said:
"Take hold of the cassette and your end cap remover and turn out the light. Lever the cap off the cassette, and slide the film spool part way out. Find the film‘s shaped leader, slot this through the light-trap opening, then slide the spool back. This saves having 1.4m/4ft 8in of loose film falling on the floor."

Dean,

When I did my own film processing, I always used a (huge) changing bag to get my film out of the canister and into the developing tank. This avoids the issue of it de-spooling entirely as it falls to the floor (been there, done that too). I just fed the film into the large reel of the tank and once on it, put the spool into the tank, screw the lid on and its ready for the light back on and the chemicals.

You might need a pair of scissors with you in the bag *before* you start, if you are not wanting to destroy the 35mm canister to get the film out and risk scrunching that end of the film. There are re-usable canisters for home loading of film ready for the camera, but that's another story.

As for chemicals - it might be easier to buy pre-mixed as not only is the dilution more predictable but you don't have to keep your 'product' in huge brown bottles in the basement/or a corner of the bathroom (almost always upsets wives), for the few rolls each month you plan to do. Haven't mixed my own for over 15 years now! Man!! Memories...

I don't know where you live, but several online vendors used to do home 'kits' of the chemicals which you might consider... As for protocols, all usual chemical handling procedures apply, no matter what else is going on. For consistent and good results, even temperatures and constant water flow are important as are reasonable and even agitation of chemicals while in the tank - you want an even coverage of the film.

A quick Google search reveals over 28,000,000 hits, so you shouldn't be short of input and ideas if one persons process doesn't feel right for you... and there are several ways to do this. In my experience, image quality won't vary as much as you think if the exposure of the negative is right to begin with AND you end up with a process you can replicate each time you get to the end of a roll... it's the experimenting that will reveal more or less grain in the neg and that will translate onto the print, when you get there. As they say, dust is also a killer, but that is not for a Nikon discussion board, it's more for a developing and processing discussion board as EVERY film processor hates dust and hair on the neg/print!!!

Enjoy!!!

My ‘beginner’ question might be augmented by noting:

Nikon F100, 50mm f/1.8D, Ilford HP5, Plustek scanner…I will be shooting b & w exclusively.

Q: for someone shooting few rolls of film–say, three or four rolls per month–which chemicals (developer, stop bath, fixer, etc.) would you recommend in the interest of 1) attaining a quality image (this is paramount and supercedes all other considerations) and, 2), minimizing wastage–minimal discarded chemicals owing to aging, etc.?

also... of the processing protocol, a noted photographer remarked: "I just wipe down the non-emulsion side of the film." question from a newcomer: is that procedure recommended, i.e., wiping just the one side? By the way, do you use cotton gloves when handling the film (b and h has them, as does freestyle)?

and... In doing my homework before the attempt there seems to be a discrepancy regarding removing the exposed film from the cannister just prior to loading it onto the spool. That is, one procedure suggests drawing the exposed film completely out of the cannister and then spooling it (it seems clumsy, let alone potentially harmful to the film), while the second method, from Ilford, is this one:

"Take hold of the cassette and your end cap remover and turn out the light. Lever the cap off the cassette, and slide the film spool part way out. Find the film‘s shaped leader, slot this through the light-trap opening, then slide the spool back. This saves having 1.4m/4ft 8in of loose film falling on the floor."

thank you all!

Dean Taylor