First of all, hey everyone, this is my first post on here, pleasure to meet you all etc.

Anyways, I was amusing myself pondering the possible camera names and how it'll play out in the long run.

I've been thinking, in regards to msmoto's theory that mirrorless "dslr-style" cameras (which would basically look like the current canon/nikon DSLR's in terms of the physical body of them camera, and function, sort of like the Panasonic GH3, except in APS-C or FF format, and being a little thinner from front-to-back as far as the thickness from the lens mount to the screen, due to not having a mirror in it or whatever), first of all, I agree that it's inevitable that canon/nikon will attempt this at some point in the future. Electronic viewfinders will only continue to get better and better over time as the technology improves further and further, and so eventually the practicality of running the system without a mirror in the way will outweigh whatever negatives there are of it being an electronic viewfinder instead of an optical viewfinder, and once that happens, they'll have to just go for it and release a whole new lineup of mirrorless dslr-style cameras, I think it's only a matter of time at this point.

I think what they might do is release the lineup with something like a "DM100", and "DM70" and/or "DM40", as in, going back to the original lineup naming of the D100, D70, and D40, except with an "M" for the "mirrorless" aspect of the lineup, and then follow the same naming timeline with the successors in identical fashion to how they did it with the original D lineup, except as the "DM" or "MD" lineup version of it. Well that's what I would do anyway, if I was Nikon.

I suspect if / when the D400 does come out, we will immediately get a "true D300s replacement?" Thread

bjrichus said:
Here is a thought ...

What if the D7100 is "just" a D7000 with a 24MP sensor in it for enthusiasts and the D7200 is the pro body to replace the older top of the line DX bodies that people are complaining about not being updated for years now AND the both get released at the same?

Before Christmas?

It really wouldn't make much of difference to me if it'd be called a D7200 instead of a D400. I just wish they'd release it already.

DaveyJ said:
I think donalddejose has a point on the 3100, and the D3200! So they PROBABLY would call it the D7200?

Here is a thought ...

What if the D7100 is "just" a D7000 with a 24MP sensor in it for enthusiasts and the D7200 is the pro body to replace the older top of the line DX bodies that people are complaining about not being updated for years now AND the both get released at the same?

Before Christmas?

Oh, just thought about this... a DX mirrorless or Digital Electronic Viewfinder in Live will be called a DEVIL...LOL

"Oh, and DX format is not dead yet." - NR Admin 10/4/12

@johnnyapple: I take it you are shooting video on the Sony NEX-5n. I certainly will be checking out the Sony NEX-6 with the Nikon mount adapter. Nikon may have really dropped the ball here. I do think they are going to get to market on the D400 and maybe even the D7200. I think donalddejose has a point on the 3100, and the D3200! So they PROBABLY would call it the D7200?

Andrew, check out the NEX-6 from Sony (shipping middle of next month here in NA, at least). You can get a nikon mount adapter and use your nikkor lenses. NEX cameras are actually pretty capable with manual focus—much easier to use than Nikon's live view. I love my NEX-5N for its manual control and they're improving on that with the 6, along with a big, bright electronic viewfinder and built-in wifi.

msmoto, you may be right about the Canon Nikon thing. I'd never hold my breath waiting for that. Maybe the D400, though...

The R in DSLR means reflex. What's there to reflect if there's no mirror?

sevencrossing said:
I think a mirror-less DSLR is an oxymoron

Explain seven? It seems like the best solution to me - is it the lack of a mirror assy which means it can't be called a reflex that you are talking about? Ok, it could be called ILEV or whatever, but I like the concept - 60fps here I come!

@ jonnyapple Agree... but, I think the two big names in the pro league are Nikon and Canon. So, when they come out with a APS-C mirrorless which corrects the focusing problems currently faced by all the current models out, they will have it. And, if both Nikon and Canon have a similar camera lineup in the APS-C mirrorless, the current lens inventory of all the folks with the DSLR's will draw them to one or the other.

I have been looking at the Fuji X Pro-1, X-E1, the Sony RX-1, SOny Alpha NEX, but all have problems and the use of the Nikkor lenses I have is not practical. Thus, I will wait.

All of this is my opinion, and I recognize Fuji is really jumping in, Sony, as well, but the "critical mass" required for the success of the APS-C mirrorless I do believe is only going to be realized when both Canon and Nikon are in with pro level bodies.

Oh, mirrorless DSLR must mean an electronic viewfinder mirrorless, which is a digital single lens (non-reflex) camera or the new mnemonic is DSLN....yeah!

Meanwhile, I will sit, not very patiently, waiting for the D400....

I think a mirror-less DSLR is an oxymoron

I wonder if the Sony is the 'right' format. I want an interchangeable lens optical viewfinder mirrorless DSLR replacement that is not so small I can't hold it (and hold it still more importantly). I also want pro or at least prosumer levels of direct access controls.

Msmoto, with due respect, Sony, Fuji, and the m4/3 crowd have got a serious head start. Even full frame mirrorless: http://www.dpreview.com/previews/sony-cybershot-dsc-rx1

Nikon and Canon missed the boat here, IMO. I don't think they expected this type of camera to be as popular as they have been.

OK, another wild guess.... but first, in response to sevencrossing's comment on the D800 and dynamic range...I think the D4 shares this phenomenon as well. I was testing my new Zeiss 28mm this morning at the local "Bokeh Camera Club" shooting folks who faced me and windows in the background. Here is a large size of a shot I took: http://www.flickr.com/photos/fantinesfotos/8051458285/sizes/o/in/photostream/

In the past, the sensor would not have handled the windows and the face in the shadow. If I am not mistaken the dynamic range of the D4 sensor is about 1 1/2 f/stops more than the D3s.

Now, if Nikon can give us a DX camera, the sensor characteristics of the D4, native ISO 12,800, there will be no question about the viability of the DX format. And, I think very soon, we will see a DX mirrorless Nikon, accepting F mount lenses, which will be the very best in its class. And, I would suggest as well, the eventual demise of the DSLR with an APS-C sensor being replaced by the mirrorless body. My guess is about five to ten years... no DLSR's except the pro bodies... Canon and Nikon are trying in the back rooms to figure out just how to do this so as to make it acceptable to the consumer. Most likely this is one of those issues they get together on unofficially, as it will be such a major break through, neither wants to be left behind and the success of the transition may be dependent upon both doing this together.

Well, this should get some folks stirred up I suspect....but remember the first line of the post "OK, another wild guess"

donaldejose said:
Another "conspiracy theory" on Nikon's marketing strategy:

"Holy cow, I just realized Nikon's big deception: the D600, D800, D800E and D4 are all the same cameras designed and produced in parallel at the same time and all have the same insides, producing the same images with the same processing power, same LCDs, same green-shift problems and identical AF controls. They differ only in exterior packaging and when Nikon chose to announce them to make them appear different."

Ken Rockwell is so full of **** it's not even funny.

There are more obvious examples out there- have you looked at Canon's APS-C lineup? Oh wait, they're all 18 mp cameras.

He does this just to spread fear and doubt into you and covers things that he thinks are most controversial so that he can advertise the living daylights out of his site.

He was talking about how the 5D Mk III was the best thing since whenever. And then the D600 came and now that's the most awesome camera ever.

I thought he said you didn't need anything past the Nikon D40? Interesting how he doesn't talk about that anymore. He advertises for B and H. There's no money to be gained in buying a discontinued camera.

He has all the money to buy gear for himself, of course he can make huge claims like that.

I agree with TTJ. I prefer the D4's low light performance to the D800. I am a firm believer in the idea that bigger pixels are better. That being said, the performance of the D3200 is pretty good. Nikon definitely needs a new pro quality DX body for all of those who have an investment in DX glass. I think DX is here to stay.

My question is: "Given the advances and cost reductions associated with sensors, will we see a digital MF offering from Nikon?"

msmoto said:
But, the quality of even a small portion of the D4 sensor is phenomenal, and if Nikon puts their expertise into a new DX sensor for a D400... as I have said before....it will blow your socks off!

I can tell a difference in High ISO - The D4 smashes the D800 to bits. What you get at 10,000 I can have similar results at around 3,200. At native is I can't tell a difference on web loaded images, but of course they are "Web-ized" and the quality drops.

donaldejose said:
Another "conspiracy theory" on Nikon's marketing strategy:

"Holy cow, I just realized Nikon's big deception: the D600, D800, D800E and D4 are all the same cameras designed and produced in parallel at the same time and all have the same insides, ...

Absolutely nothing new. This was the same for the release of the D3/D700/D300 and sort of the D7000. I outlined the specs on the D600 vs the D800 (similar to a D400 - I believe on this thread) and there are differences that are large enough to say the D600 is not "that" close. But as always, items are shared across platforms. Not sure why that would be shocking.

Seems like D7200 will fit better with the D3200 and D5200 names so as not to make the next version of the D7000 look like it was part of the last version of DX bodies (D3100 and D5100).

sevencrossing said:
Why did Lightroom fail to recognize the D600

EXIF data. See the end of:

http://nikonrumors.com/forum/topic.php?id=9352

If you hack the model name Lightroom will read it. Which goes to show you even Adobe is playing the "upgrade" marketing game. The NEF format is well understood. It doesn't really matter which camera it comes out of.

I decided to call about 2 dozen pros I know personally to ask are you looking for the next Nikon you BUY to be DX or FX. Four out of 24 said FX. The rest were decided that they were buying the next Nikon as a DX. I was surprised though that half of them thought the D400 when announced will be "too expensive". WOW! We must be in a recession in this part of the real world! I see some are now writing D7200 rather than D7100.

I guess "almost the same" or "essentially the same" is more accurate.

donaldejose said:

"Firmware? The same.

Why did Lightroom fail to recognize the D600

Thom Hogan perspective:

"It's certainly Nikon's strategy (as well as that of other camera companies) to incite you to upgrade your existing gear. The run from 2007 to the present has actually been a heady one, where clear image quality gains have come with each generation of cameras, which made Nikon's goal of getting you to upgrade easier. But as I've noted before, we're headed into a time of diminishing returns in terms of image quality. 16mp DX and 24mp FX is "good enough" for most people, and the gains we're seeing beyond that come only with discipline and attention to details. While I will always consider more sampling a better thiing, we're now pushing into the realm where much of what we're getting better samples of is diffraction, lens aberrations, focus mis-hits, and more."

Interesting.